Posted by Sun Karma: 
I know a person that tapes them (he only shoots adult stuff...if you get my point...ehm) and then resells the video. Of course, he doesn't give the models any profits off of the videos (sadly)...

But do you think its 'ethical'. The models KNOW They are being taped..they don't mind it....

They know they're being photographed. They don't mind.

They know they're being videotaped. They don't mind.

Sounds perfectly ethical to me.

Do they know the tapes are being sold? If they do, it is ethical. If they don't know - it's not ethical.

Posted by Sun Karma: 
Do you videotape your photoshoots? I know a person that tapes them (he only shoots adult stuff...if you get my point...ehm) and then resells the video. Of course, he doesn't give the models any profits off of the videos (sadly)...

But do you think its 'ethical'. The models KNOW They are being taped..they don't mind it....

and do you videotape? Or would you? Under what circumstances (ie: If the person was a minor, etc)


Just curious..
Sun

sounds ethical if they are "ok" with it, but it also sounds just plain stupid! Why allow someone to make more profit off of you and not ask for a cut...bad business practice. After you have signed a release, and depending on the terms, some photographers will cut you a small % of profits. I think it is tacky when they don't even throw you a bone...

Posted by Angel Tara: 

sounds ethical if they are "ok" with it, but it also sounds just plain stupid! Why allow someone to make more profit off of you and not ask for a cut...bad business practice. After you have signed a release, and depending on the terms, some photographers will cut you a small % of profits. I think it is tacky when they don't even throw you a bone...

That is why I am asking if its ethical. The girls know they are being taped...its not in the release that the video will be sold for profit- in fact, the video isn't mentioned in the release the models signed. So the photographer is keeping all the dough. (hypothetical situation).

? Hmmmm.

tacky, yes...

Posted by Sun Karma: 

Posted by Angel Tara: 

sounds ethical if they are "ok" with it, but it also sounds just plain stupid! Why allow someone to make more profit off of you and not ask for a cut...bad business practice. After you have signed a release, and depending on the terms, some photographers will cut you a small % of profits. I think it is tacky when they don't even throw you a bone...

That is why I am asking if its ethical. The girls know they are being taped...its not in the release that the video will be sold for profit- in fact, the video isn't mentioned in the release the models signed. So the photographer is keeping all the dough. (hypothetical situation).

? Hmmmm.

tacky, yes...

Since "the video isn't mentioned int the release" it sounds like an attorney could score a big payday with it!

Posted by Sun Karma: 

Posted by Angel Tara: 

sounds ethical if they are "ok" with it, but it also sounds just plain stupid! Why allow someone to make more profit off of you and not ask for a cut...bad business practice. After you have signed a release, and depending on the terms, some photographers will cut you a small % of profits. I think it is tacky when they don't even throw you a bone...

That is why I am asking if its ethical. The girls know they are being taped...its not in the release that the video will be sold for profit- in fact, the video isn't mentioned in the release the models signed. So the photographer is keeping all the dough. (hypothetical situation).

? Hmmmm.

tacky, yes...

If he isn't being up frount about selling the video then it's not ethical.

Posted by Sun Karma: 
Do you videotape your photoshoots? I know a person that tapes them (he only shoots adult stuff...if you get my point...ehm) and then resells the video. Of course, he doesn't give the models any profits off of the videos (sadly)...

But do you think its 'ethical'. The models KNOW They are being taped..they don't mind it....

and do you videotape? Or would you? Under what circumstances (ie: If the person was a minor, etc)


Just curious..
Sun

If the model is getting a cut of the video sales then hell yeah it's ethical, but if they are not getting paid to be videoed then they should sue.

That's why I have no respect for Girls Gone Wild, they coerce the girls into flashing but they don't get paid. But these slimeballs are making money hand over fist while these girls get nothing.

Posted by Alexandra Paris:
That's why I have no respect for Girls Gone Wild, they coerce the girls into flashing but they don't get paid. But these slimeballs are making money hand over fist while these girls get nothing.

Actually, some of the girls do indeed get paid. When they take them onto the bus or hotel room, anywhere where it's a "private" dwelling, they shell out cash, get ID's, MRF's are signed, the whole ball of wax. I respect GGW because here in 2005 if a girl is stupid enough to get on cam for them for free, KNOWING that they'll be in the commercial 6 months after, then that's THIER fault. It's not like they didn't know. That excuse in itself is tired. it's like saying "Well, I didn't know they were going to make money off of me when I flashed my tits and screamed out GIRLS GONE WILD, WOOOOO!!!! After I put on the tank top that said Girls Gone Wild on the front of it, with matching hat." lol

Bottom line is, nobody is pulling out pistols making girls do things on cam that they don't want to do. I videotape my shoots, and yes I sell my content. Every model I have ever videotaped knows EXACTLY why i'm videotaping and that i'm going to profit from it. If they got paid, cool. If they did TFP (in exchange for some kick ass images for her port, they did video), cool. People kill me talking like there's some guy hiding in the closet with a video camera or something.

What's the problem???

Posted by Monsante Bey: 

Posted by Alexandra Paris:
That's why I have no respect for Girls Gone Wild, they coerce the girls into flashing but they don't get paid. But these slimeballs are making money hand over fist while these girls get nothing.

Actually, some of the girls do indeed get paid. When they take them onto the bus or hotel room, anywhere where it's a "private" dwelling, they shell out cash, get ID's, MRF's are signed, the whole ball of wax. I respect GGW because here in 2005 if a girl is stupid enough to get on cam for them for free, KNOWING that they'll be in the commercial 6 months after, then that's THIER fault. It's not like they didn't know. That excuse in itself is tired. it's like saying "Well, I didn't know they were going to make money off of me when I flashed my tits and screamed out GIRLS GONE WILD, WOOOOO!!!! After I put on the tank top that said Girls Gone Wild on the front of it, with matching hat." lol

Bottom line is, nobody is pulling out pistols making girls do things on cam that they don't want to do. I videotape my shoots, and yes I sell my content. Every model I have ever videotaped knows EXACTLY why i'm videotaping and that i'm going to profit from it. If they got paid, cool. If they did TFP (in exchange for some kick ass images for her port, they did video), cool. People kill me talking like there's some guy hiding in the closet with a video camera or something.

What's the problem???

Posted by XtremeArtists ®: 
If they are drunk when they do this, they really can't make an informed decision.

That's a tired and lame excuse too, seeing how GGW hosts events at clubs and people are told BEFOREHAND that they will be on camera. Girl in court says, "But your honor, I was drunk." Club owner says "Your honor, we had the appropriate signs posted that GGW was hosting the event and would be filming. We checked ID's at the door, verifying that everyone in the club was at least 21 years of age." The judge says "Plaintiff, did you willingly show your breasts when the camera was put in your face after you bought your own alcoholic beverages?" Girls says "Yes, but..." Judge says "Yes, but nothing. Case dismissed."

If you cheated on your wife and she caught you and you said "but honey, I was drunk." Do you think she'll say "Oh, well then it's alright then, just don't do it again... Want butter on your flapjacks?" There's a serious lack of common sense in todays world where people excuse it with the "oh poor me I was a victim" technique, instead of just manning (or womaning) up and taking responsibility for their own actions.

Posted by Sun Karma: 
Of course, he doesn't give the models any profits off of the videos (sadly)...

I think using the term "of course" immediately implies that this person is unethical from the start. Therefore, he should be avoided.

I don't videotape a shoot in its entirety, as in leaving the camcorder running 4-hours straight. But, I do shoot video at every shoot and we advise every model we work
with well in advance that we will be doing so. And we sell the content in downloadable format, DVD and VHS.

If this photographer's Model Release makes specific reference to video with terminology indicating that the video is his property, then he is free and clear to do with it as he fit - but not outside the boundaries of the Model Release. In other words, if the Model Release states "I, the undersigned model (hereafter model) hereby voluntarily authorize and give permission to Mr. Photographer (hereafter Producer) the exclusive use of:  photographs, video, electronic and digital reproductions in any form of my person or personal property." then he would be clear.

When dealing with adult material - as DJ will attest - a well written Model Release form, and maintaining a Model Release form, is very important. Our Release was written by our attorney and conforms to Title 18 USC 2257. The term I used as an example (above) was taken directly from it.

My wife has worked with photographers that videotape entire shoots as well as photographers that videotape only partial scenes. As long as it's mentioned to me beforehand - and I don't mean the day we arrive at the shoot - we're okay with that.

Be careful... it's a jungle out there!

Martin Williams

Posted by Martin Williams: 
When dealing with adult material - as DJ will attest - a well written Model Release form, and maintaining a Model Release form, is very important. Our Release was written by our attorney and conforms to Title 18 USC 2257. The term I used as an example (above) was taken directly from it.

*Sits back and Laughs at Martin* Duuuuude you do porno... he he he. And you are absolutly correct its about communication. Empowering people by giving them a choice.

And even the most comfortable situations can turn bad. HAd it happen to a friend with a model whose advances he rejected. She had him arrested and defamed all on an accusation of improper behavior on his part. He shows up for his court date plays the video and she was charged with filing a false police report.

Video can save your ass. In what a model is comfortable showing, well I'm not suggesting you get the OBGYN closeups or anything. But a behind the scenes type thing. Hell set it on a tri-pod and let it roll capturing both yourself and the set. And make sure this is outlined clearly what the use will be. ESPECIALLY when dealing with NUDE models.

Posted by Martin Williams: 
When dealing with adult material - as DJ will attest - a well written Model Release form, and maintaining a Model Release form, is very important. Our Release was written by our attorney and conforms to Title 18 USC 2257. The term I used as an example (above) was taken directly from it.

*Sits back and Laughs at Martin* Duuuuude you do porno... he he he. And you are absolutly correct its about communication. Empowering people by giving them a choice.

And even the most comfortable situations can turn bad. HAd it happen to a friend with a model whose advances he rejected. She had him arrested and defamed all on an accusation of improper behavior on his part. He shows up for his court date plays the video and she was charged with filing a false police report.

Video can save your ass. In what a model is comfortable showing, well I'm not suggesting you get the OBGYN closeups or anything. But a behind the scenes type thing. Hell set it on a tri-pod and let it roll capturing both yourself and the set. And make sure this is outlined clearly what the use will be. ESPECIALLY when dealing with NUDE models.

Posted by XtremeArtists ®: 
If they are drunk when they do this, they really can't make an informed decision.

It's skirting the edge.  They are sober when they agree to go to GGW event and be filmed, knowing what happens. Are they sober when they engage in actions they later regret, probablyt not. Contracts signed while drunk may be considered invalid, but I don't think oversettping your personal limits because you were foolish enough to get too drunk when you knew you were on camera is much to stand on.

I really have no sympathy for girls who go to events like that and then feel basd becaus ethey got so trashed the did soemthing foolish. If you can't hiold your alcohol, don't drink on camaera!