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Internet models...ups and downs - what do you have to say?
There have been a lot of threads about "Internet models" and if it makes or breaks someones career. A lot of these talks have been highly negative, and with a lot of fighting. The reaction by people about internet modeling is very strong - why? Because to many, it is a direct threat to their career and $$$. Here are a few points - I as an internet model can make, and speak from experaince from 1) ALL models make or break their own career - internet or not. The internet is just another marketing tool, and is HIGHLY effective for self managed models or people with an edgie/unique look that does not fit into mainstream photographry. 2) The quality of the work you get from the internet - is up to you. A model needs to have a good eye for which photographers are good, and which ones will just drag you down. Without an agnecy there to filter through which photographers you should work for....models need to have a good eye and understanding. Otherwise, a mdoel will just get a bunch of junk - like it or not...not all photographers are great. 3)Agencies FEAR the internet - why? Because it liberates models from being dependant upon them. Agencies make money off of models - and when the models no longer need an agency and can book work on her own...the agency loses out on $$$. Agencies WANT to make the internet taboo, and mdoels on it 'trash' because the internet is a THREAT TO THEIR BUSINESS. 4) Do NOt comfuse cam/vid girls for models. Yes, anyone can claim to be a model...and there are countless sites out there of these so called girls - but being a mdoel is not about just having a pretty face. There is a difference between having a website about yourself ....and being a career model. Please do not confused the girls with a internet cam, with the serious mdoels who are online. Long story short - real world model, internet or whatever... talents (models, photographers, etc) make or break their own career based on choices - not by simply being online. After all, who would not want their image/name/etc exposed to possibly millions of people? Isn't that what modeling really boils down to, Exposure? ---------------------------- WITHOUT MAKING THIS INTO A FLAME WAR...please post why you are for or against internet modeling. May 30 05 04:42 pm Link I'm FOR internet modeling. Internet modeling is mostly glamour and glamour is what I shoot. Nothing beats booking a gig through a simple email and/or a phone call. The negativity is that "the elite" fashion photographers will look at internet models/photographers as below them. Maybe because of what you said, maybe because they fear the internet or had a bad experience with it. Alot of fashion photographers usually don't like anything other than "fashion". Fashion rules the "real world", but it's biggest competition is glamour and where do you find glamour models? The internet. May 30 05 04:58 pm Link Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *: Everyone gets bad experainces, even from "real world agency" shooting. You cant meanto tell me agency models are 100% perfect and never are bad.... May 30 05 05:03 pm Link Posted by Lady Atropos: Tell that to the elite. May 30 05 05:17 pm Link I prefer working with real world agencies models because they make my job easer. 1) they are almost always on time and bring very little drama to the shoot 2) they don't try to read and chat on their cell phones while I am doing makeup and hair. They turn their cell phones off when work starts so as to not interrupt thye shoot 3) they don't try to help me arrange wardrobe or fix hair, they just stand there and let me do my job. I have to tell the newer models not to move when I step into to do something. The newer models want to make it easier for you and even try to help, thats not good. Staying in pose is what you do when an artist or stylist steps in. 4) they hardly ever offer opinions about makeup and hair, or what they want to wear. They just go with the program. They understand that the shoot is not about making them happy with the photos, in fact they will probably never see the shots and they know it. 5) they dont offer opinions on posing etc 6) they are very fast, they can change in a matter of minutes and know how to do this without getting makeup on the clothing. 7) most of them understand direction very well, you don't need to udate them on shoot lingo (like they know what "camera right" means...they know what "cheat your body to the left" means etc. With experience they just know how to work the camera 8) they understand how to arrive at a shoot, clear or french nails, shaved, brows clean, skin well cared for and a lot of extra clothing in the car if it's a commercial shoot where some extra clothing may be called for. 9) they can laugh on cue. Thats really hard for an inexperienced model. 10) they know how to play to the light, you dont have to tell them when they are in shadows, they can move and stay right in the light. I assume a lot of this is due to the fact that good agents do groom their models, the models work more and with higher level pros so they understand a lot of stuff the newer models without an agent do not. I know with the inexperienced models (the ones that do primarily web stuff) our shooting time is going to be a lot longer and there will probably be some frustation. Everyone has to learn though so I try to be patient but on a big money shoots where every minute counts it can be like pulling teeth. May 30 05 05:21 pm Link Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *: Posted by Lady Atropos: Tell that to the elite. LOL - the elite I have the feeling get their pockets lined by the agencies... again, those who are anti-internet I find are dependant on agency work/models for their income May 30 05 05:22 pm Link Fashion has no competition (except other fashion). Fashion and glamour are apples and oranges. I agree with most of Lady Atropos's post, but I don't think agencies fear the internet. Agencies know that they still have the connection with the high paying clients and those clients won't devote the time to searching the internet for a model when they can call an agency with a proven track record to get exactly what they need. Right now, the larger commercial and fashion world is running parallel to the internet market. While models, photographers, agents, etc in that world have websites the websites are typcially used as an alternate portfolio rather than a means of attracting work. The leg work for getting major commercial and fashion work is still being done off line and will continue to be until the internet finds a way to make itself as elitist and the agency world. I would also like to point out, the "elite" land-based types are not dependant on the agencies for their income, at least not directly. They are dependant on the clients, and the clients depend on the agencies. May 30 05 05:26 pm Link I live in Siskiyou,Or Population 4 15 miles from ashland pop 35000 old retired people!! 300 miles to san fran 350 miles to portland.. Not much in between.. What im supposed to use the Ham radio to get my work out!! Most models are not Electronic techys.. so that didnt work to good!..lol Then came this thing called the computer!! And then the internet!! I Have been here since the start!! Did the internet improve my work I really cant say! Have i gotten work of the internet Yes!! Meet new friends in person Yes!! Travel for my job paid for Yes! Have i had models flake yes!! Can you see my work on a shetty monitor ANY time you want?? YES YOU CAN!! Dude this place Rocks!!! May 30 05 05:33 pm Link Posted by theda: Awesom counter points - and very true about major agencies having the real connections to get major work. Granted, the average model, will -never- be in vogue, let alone be considered for it.....so major connections on a broadview really dont apply in many cases. May 30 05 05:37 pm Link If it wasn't for Internet models, I probably wouldn't be shooting scenes with models. For that matter, if it wasn't for digital photography, I probably wouldn't be shooting much, period. As for being for or against anything, my opinion matters for nothing. The markets will find their own level. It's guys like me who, I'm sure, represent a certain segment of the market for Internet models. May 30 05 05:37 pm Link I think the internet COULD possibly make or break someone's career, but most people give it all away. I use the internet strictly as a marketing tool, to further my work, as I am self managed. Its much easier to apply for a casting call/ go-see/ model call online, that way I dont have to leave the city, or my home for that matter. I can write photographers, artists, models, anyone, all over the world, & make friends, so that my situations take care of themselves, the universe provides. I present my portfolio in-person usually. But the internet is a big time/money saver, marketing wise. May 30 05 05:45 pm Link ALL major land based agencies have websites. They are using the Internet more than you realize to get and work with clients. The money for Internet models is excellent! If someone does it right by using good business skills in marketing it can blow the doors off the incomes that some models get in the traditional industry. How do I know? I worked as customer service for an online billing company! I know a women who I confirmed pulls in 2 million USD gross income a year from her websites! Most of the models I know who are doing well are pulling in a few hundred thousand a year. Also DJ mentioned his income being slightly under one million by a couple hundred thousand. Those are the realistic numbers for those who I know have been in this business for many years and are ESTABLISHED! It is NOT for those who throw a website up and dream of the dollars rolling in. Three months later, those people are gone! Make ALL the jokes you want about Internet models. I think it's great! Life should not be taken too seriously. Work hard at what you enjoy, but don't close your mind to other possibilities. Then see who gets the last laugh? May 30 05 05:47 pm Link Posted by Hugh Jorgen ©: Right on Hugh! The Internet rocks! May 30 05 05:50 pm Link Mary and Theda have made great points. But then so have others. When I want to play I come to the internet. When I need to get real work done I call agencies. And for the reasons Mary listed. I think that though internet and brick and morter agencies are two different creatures they go hand in hand. I don't foresee one cancelling out the other. For models it's great as Cestra said, and For photographers it's great as Hugh said. As Patrick said there is LOTS of money to be made from the net. I know... I love my money. May 30 05 08:05 pm Link The net has it's ups and downs. Long as a girl is strong in her game, I have no qualms with it. it's the "I just wanna take pretty pics" girls who give net models a bad name. May 30 05 08:56 pm Link Well, yes and no. Maybe as an 'old fart' retired commercial photographer, I have a slightly different perspective. WInternet modeling and agencWy reped, brick and mortar modeling are two entirely different animals and as such, neither is really competition for the other. Both serve their own distinctive purposes and there is sometimes a bit of overlap, but again, neither is a real threat to the other. Neither major client nor ad agencies are busy on line searching for medels, it's just too easy to telephone a major modeling agency, describe the look you are after and have 10 to 100 models with that look arrive at a go-see the next morning. Or call and have a copy of the agency's 'head book' delivered by courier within the hour. An agency model is just not going to be a no-show. The model knows full well she would be imediately droped from the agency. In the unlikely event it did happen, a call to the agency would have a replaement with a similar look arrive in a very short while. When using a brick and mortar gency reped model, no amateur "model manager' will be involved. I once had a "manager', in the middle of a session, begin instructing me on how to set up and use studio flash. He had begun using a studio set up six months before while I had been using it for better than 20 years. Over the years, I've worked extensively with both varieties of models and had both excellent and horrible experiences with both. For 'real'commercial work (my former area), net modeling is just no challenge for brick and mortar agencies. Neither is really better than the other, they are just different with different mrkets and different uses. The primary reason agencies often are hostile to net modeling is that they are scared shytless that the lure of either sort or hard core porn will lure their models away. They can not really control what their models do on the net, that's the real threat they feel. May 30 05 09:02 pm Link I am an aspiring model, so as of right now I guess I am catagorized as an interenet model, but I see it as me getting more experience elarning how to shoot with photographers,I would love to be with a land based agency, in fact I am trying to be but I see no reason why I still can't be on the internet,it gives me major exposure, and for me just starting out I think it is pretty cool, I think I am getting more connections starting this way as to only going door to door to agency getting the you don't have the look we need for about a year. May 30 05 10:11 pm Link The way I see it, B&M modeling and internet modeling is like high school varsity and junior varsity. You're a pretty good player(model)but not quite good enough to make the varsity team(B&M Elite, Ford). So you still get to model and make money at it on the internet. What's wrong with that? Anybody ever hear of Dani Ashe? There was an article in the Wall Street Journal about her and how she's the richest "internet model" in the world. And for those photographers that bash internet modeling, what are you doing on here then? Probably because you're a good photographer but not quite good enough to be on the "Varsity" team. No disrespect to anyone. Just my opinion on the matter. EH Jun 01 05 01:08 pm Link Posted by Mary: Crap! I gotta learn that lingo, ok turn stage right, I mean camera right, I mean upstage, no don't upstage her move.... Jun 01 05 02:20 pm Link |
