jandj studios wrote:
quick note called out of town - in chicago with daughter will be gone for few days.
be nice on d.t. and i'm sure u can do without me . great entries. BTW

Have fun !

Mike Caffrey wrote:

If he votes and 9am his time, it will still be before the end of the contest. he could even for at 11pm his time and be fine.

Yes, you are correct. Although I am 13.5 hours ahead, everything works out if I vote in the morning (for the previous day!)       
The reality is, if I login in the afternoon and see an absolutely gorgeous photo I just HAVE to vote for, and I don't want to sit up all night or take tomorrow morning off work...I go ahead and vote.

If I put in my own entry I have to make it for yesterday, unless it is after midday then it is for today....see, it's simple really!

ps my last early vote was for dgold2, so he has to be nice to me!
pss this is a great comp. keep up the great work..I love it

Leon-deCanon wrote:

Yes, you are correct. Although I am 13.5 hours ahead, everything works out if I vote in the morning (for the previous day!)       
The reality is, if I login in the afternoon and see an absolutely gorgeous photo I just HAVE to vote for, and I don't want to sit up all night or take tomorrow morning off work...I go ahead and vote.

If I put in my own entry I have to make it for yesterday, unless it is after midday then it is for today....see, it's simple really!

ps my last early vote was for dgold2, so he has to be nice to me!
pss this is a great comp. keep up the great work..I love it

And we love seeing the view of the other side of the globe!

No time for all the rules. I won't be poting again.....You don't have to worry about me.

The category is 18+. Crazy rules. IMHO

and

forget it I enter the contest...Its obvious its 18+....I did not think it had to be technical...
Don't contact me again

Those are actually relatively POLITE.  I have received far more abusive comments.

Adding MORE rules to the contest WILL push people away (both of those respondents had VERY high quality images, and I politely asked the one who didn't tell me never to contact him again to reconsider), and will cause a LOT more work for anyone admining the contest as well as subjecting us to more abuse.

The benefit analysis doesn't compute for me.

SLE Photography wrote:
Adding MORE rules to the contest WILL push people away (both of those respondents had VERY high quality images, and I politely asked the one who didn't tell me never to contact him again to reconsider), and will cause a LOT more work for anyone admining the contest as well as subjecting us to more abuse.

The benefit analysis doesn't compute for me.

re the 18+ rule....I wonder if people realize that non members can view the image links posted, even though they would appear n/a in the actual portfolio.  I assume this is the reason for the strict (and understandable) requirement for the 18+ notation and therefore is not someone just being petty about rules.

personally i think the rules are fine...if it's not broken, don't fix it    
edit: that didn't sound right, but I hope you know what I meant!

Leon-deCanon wrote:
ps my last early vote was for dgold2, so he has to be nice to me!
pss this is a great comp. keep up the great work..I love it

...blushes and says thank you.
And, being extra nice.

Chris Keeling wrote:

But what does stopping them from voting early do for the people who that is the only time they CAN vote?  There is a whole group of Forum regulars who can only be on MM in the middle of the night.  Your solution eliminates them.

So you're saying that the guy who voted at 11:15 had just gotten home from his 20 hour /day job? That's nonsense. If there are people who only have a two hour window between 11pm and 1am, then punch the contest back an hour like the regular POTD contest. Then they have a whole hour at the end of the day to vote.

Besides, my solution is to require a particular number of votes, say 6-10 before voting. WHy would anyone vote after seeing only three images? There is no scenario in which I can believe that that's anything but a disingenuous vote. Yeah, so you really like an early photo. how do you not know that that doesn't make it you favorite of the day? I can't take one of those votes seriously, nor the voter because it's not really a vote relative to anything other than the fact that it's after 11pm and someone has posted an image.

Especially form such a deliberate bunch as photographers - a profession that set ups lights, shoots polaroids to be sure and then begins the shoot. There's care and consideration put into all aspects of images and that's certainly not happening when someone votes for one of the first couple of images.


And really, so what if someone doesn't get to vote for an image on a particular day?

There's not thing that prevents someone from entering an image and not voting. They can still participate. Do you really believe that there are people who won't enter their images because they're asked to wait until there are half a dozen image posted? No one has said that the contribution of an images is dependent on the time of when they're allowed to vote. Not one single person. You're using the straw man fallacy - setting up something that doesn't exist to argue your point.

What about the 100s of people who don't participate because of the early votes? I'd call them 100s of regulars, but they're "would be" regulars because they're not participating because of the early votes.


This is not a new rule, it's the second half of a sentece in the rules "ENtries begin at 11pm and vote beings after _____."

I started one of the rounds of complaining months ago. I've participated in each of the 3-4 rounds since then, but each one has been started by a new person. Someone new will keep bringing it up until it's somehow addressed.

At the moment there are only a few people debating this, and it's pretty civil. One possibility is that nothing will happen now, we'll drop this discussion and someone new will start it again in a way that's totally in appropriate, create a big flap and either get this thread locked, the contest thread locked or just leave enough people pissed off that they stop participating.

It's a simple question of being proactive now or reative later.

The current poster who said he'd voted early said he could vote in the morning and still make the deadline. He mentioned that sometimes he sees an image he likes in the afternoon. Dgold has suggested a 10 hour delay. I've suggested 6-10 entries or a 2-3 hour delay. This poster doesn't even have to wain until the morning, he'd have the entire evening and night to vote.

Something to stop votes the day before the contest - 11pm-12am, is to going to hinder anyone other than people who are not considering more than a percentage of the entries that's so small that it can't be a genuine vote.

MC 2 wrote:
So you're saying that the guy who voted at 11:15 had just gotten home from his 20 hour /day job? That's nonsense. If there are people who only have a two hour window between 11pm and 1am, then punch the contest back an hour like the regular POTD contest. Then they have a whole hour at the end of the day to vote.

Besides, my solution is to require a particular number of votes, say 6-10 before voting. WHy would anyone vote after seeing only three images? There is no scenario in which I can believe that that's anything but a disingenuous vote. Yeah, so you really like an early photo. how do you not know that that doesn't make it you favorite of the day? I can't take one of those votes seriously, nor the voter because it's not really a vote relative to anything other than the fact that it's after 11pm and someone has posted an image.

Especially form such a deliberate bunch as photographers - a profession that set ups lights, shoots polaroids to be sure and then begins the shoot. There's care and consideration put into all aspects of images and that's certainly not happening when someone votes for one of the first couple of images.


And really, so what if someone doesn't get to vote for an image on a particular day?

There's not thing that prevents someone from entering an image and not voting. They can still participate. Do you really believe that there are people who won't enter their images because they're asked to wait until there are half a dozen image posted? No one has said that the contribution of an images is dependent on the time of when they're allowed to vote. Not one single person. You're using the straw man fallacy - setting up something that doesn't exist to argue your point.

What about the 100s of people who don't participate because of the early votes? I'd call them 100s of regulars, but they're "would be" regulars because they're not participating because of the early votes.


This is not a new rule, it's the second half of a sentece in the rules "ENtries begin at 11pm and vote beings after _____."

I started one of the rounds of complaining months ago. I've participated in each of the 3-4 rounds since then, but each one has been started by a new person. Someone new will keep bringing it up until it's somehow addressed.

At the moment there are only a few people debating this, and it's pretty civil. One possibility is that nothing will happen now, we'll drop this discussion and someone new will start it again in a way that's totally in appropriate, create a big flap and either get this thread locked, the contest thread locked or just leave enough people pissed off that they stop participating.

It's a simple question of being proactive now or reative later.

The current poster who said he'd voted early said he could vote in the morning and still make the deadline. He mentioned that sometimes he sees an image he likes in the afternoon. Dgold has suggested a 10 hour delay. I've suggested 6-10 entries or a 2-3 hour delay. This poster doesn't even have to wain until the morning, he'd have the entire evening and night to vote.

Something to stop votes the day before the contest - 11pm-12am, is to going to hinder anyone other than people who are not considering more than a percentage of the entries that's so small that it can't be a genuine vote.

Do the math.  Most people sleep, work, spend time with the family etc.  That leaves even for hardcore forum people a window of about 4 hours to be on the forums.  For 16% of the world that 4 hours falls between 10pm and 2am CDT. 

The poster above did not say he could wait untill the morning to vote for that image, he said he could vote in the morning if he took off work.  He was being sarcastic.

And talk about a straw argument.......you want to adopt a rule now because the next conversation about it might not be so civil? 

It's a bad rule when it's implemented because you don't trust voters to make decisions on their own.  These are adults your dealing with, and they should be allowed to vote as they see fit for the image they choose.  You personally not feeling their vote is a valid one is luckily extremely inconsequential.

SLE Photography wrote:
Ok folks.  RE all the discussion about adding more rules for things like vote cutoff times and such, I want to share something with you.

Right now, we have a few simple rules:
Don't post images.
Only link to work you're part of.
Mark your links 18+.
Date your links.
Don't put your link at the beginning of your post (that's not a rule so much as a site bug).
Don't bump unless a new page has started.
Don't use the same image twice in a 15 day period.

That's it.  Pretty simple, not complicated or harsh.
Yet in the last couple of days here're just 2 of the responses I've gotten for polite reminders (not even penalties, just REMINDERS) of the rules to players:

No time for all the rules. I won't be poting again.....You don't have to worry about me.

The category is 18+. Crazy rules. IMHO

and

Those are actually relatively POLITE.  I have received far more abusive comments.

Adding MORE rules to the contest WILL push people away (both of those respondents had VERY high quality images, and I politely asked the one who didn't tell me never to contact him again to reconsider), and will cause a LOT more work for anyone admining the contest as well as subjecting us to more abuse.

The benefit analysis doesn't compute for me.

As you know I have been participating here since day one. You may not know how much your efforts are appreciated.

The rules are fine - I went through a period of wishing for categories so that gentle, Pollyanna Crap (TM) wasn't competing against spread shots and the like. I certainly understand how much more work that would be as well as the potential to dilute the contest so ...

Thanks for somewhat silently putting up with those fifteen percenters who will never be pleased but I don't think we need professional malcontents here anyway. They make us amateur malcontents look bad.

Tommy Dee wrote:
As you know I have been participating here since day one. You may not know how much your efforts are appreciated.

The rules are fine - I went through a period of wishing for categories so that gentle, Pollyanna Crap (TM) wasn't competing against spread shots and the like. I certainly understand how much more work that would be as well as the potential to dilute the contest so ...

Thanks for somewhat silently putting up with those fifteen percenters who will never be pleased but I don't think we need professional malcontents here anyway. They make us amateur malcontents look bad.

Thanks Tommy.  I have to look at keeping the MAJORITY of players happy AND bringing in new blood.
The contest is GROWING, vote counts have been up & we've got in some great new players
I want to keep it as simple & welcoming as possible.

Next step is doing something about this thread, and I have a solution I'm implementing when DJ gets back.

Christophers Kamera wrote:

Do the math.  Most people sleep, work, spend time with the family etc.  That leaves even for hardcore forum people a window of about 4 hours to be on the forums.  For 16% of the world that 4 hours falls between 10pm and 2am CDT. 

The poster above did not say he could wait untill the morning to vote for that image, he said he could vote in the morning if he took off work.  He was being sarcastic.

And talk about a straw argument.......you want to adopt a rule now because the next conversation about it might not be so civil? 

It's a bad rule when it's implemented because you don't trust voters to make decisions on their own.  These are adults your dealing with, and they should be allowed to vote as they see fit for the image they choose.  You personally not feeling their vote is a valid one is luckily extremely inconsequential.

Afternoon to morning is like 14 hours. He's got plenty of time to vote.

I don't follow the 16% thing. That gives them plenty of time to vote that's not in the first 15 minutes of the first entires being posted.


Do you really mean the last part? If so then you're saying that you think not being allowed to vote for your own image is a bad rule because it's not trusting voters to make their own decisions. Will you support on days where the vote that I see fit to make is for my own image?


The most amazing thing about this is that the people who are most resistant to the vote would not be affected at all. There are not a ton of rules and eliminating votes at 11:15 from anyone other than Miss Cleo who's seen the future and knows what coming can only strengthen the contest.

And considering that you've pointed out the flaw of allowing ties to be decided by one person, it's clear that you have critical thinking skills, so I can't wrap my head around you defense of obviously disingenuous votes. And I have a really hard time believing that you think stopping people from voting at 11:15 is bad for the contest.

I don't dismiss your point that the reminders of rule violations are a bit of a turn off, but theyre' nowhere as near a turn off as an 11:15 vote.

Andree de Villers wrote:
oh my goodness, such a hard choice today! So many fantastic entries, and it came down to a really hard choice between two, but I am about to run off to an event and show off my new retro pin up pencil skirt so I had to make my choice early!  Happy Voting I will talk to you all tomorrow

Noooo problem Andree ... this is not an early vote ... have fun at the event !

Mike Caffrey wrote:
The majority of the players haven't expressed opinions.

And I think that you have adequately overcompensated for that as well.

SLE Photography wrote:

Thanks Tommy.  I have to look at keeping the MAJORITY of players happy AND bringing in new blood.
The contest is GROWING, vote counts have been up & we've got in some great new players
I want to keep it as simple & welcoming as possible.

Next step is doing something about this thread, and I have a solution I'm implementing when DJ gets back.

This sounds good enough for me ... looking forward of what James and DJ have up their sleeves

Amedeus wrote:
I'll be closing the contest tonight and have the honors of counting the votes ... lol ... at least till James is back from the brig ... lol

All because James was defending nude models & the photographers who shoot them LOL ... send him an e-card or something !

So behaaaavvvvvveeeeeeee ...

lol... Rudi, you will get no sympathy... lol I would not want that job maybe we can give you a tie

Have fun....
John

Amedeus wrote:

Noooo problem Andree ... this is not an early vote ... have fun at the event !

Exactly. Voting in the first hour or two is an early vote.

jcmfinearts wrote:
lol... Rudi, you will get no sympathy... lol I would not want that job maybe we can give you a tie

Have fun....
John

Wet Ltd got there first ... lol ... thanks Jeff ... lol

Tommy Dee wrote:

And I think that you have adequately overcompensated for that as well.

Are you saying I'm representing the majority?


James must love me these days since I'm giving a target that's not him.

You just don't want the rule passed because it will end the discussion and you'll have far fewer opportunities for you veiled attacks and insults that are so cleverly written. I'm not being sarcastic, they are clever, but passive-aggression is never constructive.

Who am I kidding? You know that.

Eric Scott Photography wrote:
Kudos to those who run the "contest" and thank you for doing it.  It's a thankless job....so I'll say  THANK  YOU

Some people need to get a life and not take this thing so seriously.  To me, it's about sharing 18+ work that you are proud to share, get comments on and a forum to see what others are doing.  If you happen to get recognized for it, well, that makes it a little bit nicer.  Keep it simple and fun.  This is not a real contest and people who take it too seriously and are living for the day when they can put Model Mayhem 18+ winner of the day on their resume need to get a life. 

I've appreciated the opportunity to share my work, have others comment on it, and see other's as well.  So thanks for forum to share it.

Amen !

Wet Ltd wrote:
As noted by Amedeus..we will be working together to keep everyone playing nice and following the simple rules that James reminded us of.  Hopefully this is only for a few days as I will be closing each night.  Please help stamp out ties (which should be easy with all the great work the last couple weeks.).  In addition let me welcome the new players, glad to see you step out of the shadows and let some light shine down on your work.  If you would like us to tell you what we think about your works, just post a message requesting the same here in this forum.

If you see a problem with an image please PM myself or Amedeus through Sunday evening.

Thanks everyone
Jeff

Can I ask how we do that?  Are you suggesting we count votes before we cast our own to make sure it won't create a tie? 

I pay no attention to vote counts, names on images, genre's, or any of those things that can lower the credibility of my vote.  I open in a new tab and find the image that jumps out at me as being the most interesting and/or well done.  If that happens to create a tie then it is purely accidental.

Chris Keeling wrote:
Can I ask how we do that?  Are you suggesting we count votes before we cast our own to make sure it won't create a tie? 

I pay no attention to vote counts, names on images, genre's, or any of those things that can lower the credibility of my vote.  I open in a new tab and find the image that jumps out at me as being the most interesting and/or well done.  If that happens to create a tie then it is purely accidental.

Thats ok..every time as beg for one thing the opposite happens, just thought I would get the request out of the way as it never works for me anyway.  I am just hoping that this great amount of entries continues, nice to see that is running through other peoples minds.

Wet Ltd wrote:

Thats ok..every time as beg for one thing the opposite happens, just thought I would get the request out of the way as it never works for me anyway.  I am just hoping that this great amount of entries continues, nice to see that is running through other peoples minds.

It's a nice thought, and I don't think you meant it in a bad way .....but the only way I can think of preventing ties is if people are indeed dishonest about how they vote.  If there is any factor other than it being the best picture being brought into how someone votes.... then this competition's integrity is compromised.

EMB Images wrote:
Sorry about posting a pic yesterday and not being able to vote, I got home at 11:30PM and could only vote for the Regular POtD. I will be working from about 6AM until 11PM this Mon- Thurs so I wont post any pics as I doubt I will be able to vote in time. When I get back from Detroit things should ease up a little and allow me more time. Cheers.

This happens to all of us from time to time ... don't worry about it ! ... there's always the next day ...

Magicc Imagery wrote:
Does anyone remember the winners list page?

18+
http://www.slephoto.com/webpost/formm/P … day_18.htm

Is this the page you're referring too ... doesn't seem updated in a loooooong time ...

Magicc Imagery wrote:
Does anyone remember the winners list page?

Scott,
I think you can get to them off this page Dj has it as one or two of his list
hope that helps ??

John

Wet Ltd wrote:
StudioCMC
https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=7548063
18+

Oh one of my favorite places to play, the woods.  And what a wonderful subject you have to play with as well.  Her skill shows in the pose and expression that she has added to this image.  I like your lighting and more so the selection of shooting angle which really adds to the beauty of your model.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff for your thoughts, thats a great review!

Now only if there was a Graphic for 2nd place, I'd have a million of em!

Chris

Chris Keeling wrote:
If there is any factor other than it being the best picture being brought into how someone votes.... then this competition's integrity is compromised.