Posted by JSR photography: 
I have spent many many hours in the darkroom and on photshop. If someone can get the same ( or better) results in a fraction of the time, go for it.

As far as the "True Photographer" statement posted above. What a rediculous statement (IMHO).

I agree Photoshop is a great Tool. It can help improve or create an image same way a better camera or better darkroom can. Photographers have been doing many of the same things done in photoshop for years, but instead of a few minutes or hours dodging, burning, blurring or touching up photos it took them hours or days doing it with chemicals, brushes and other tools in a darkroom.

Best statement I have ever heard Photographers do one of two things Capture Art or they Create it. Some create the image before taking it others do so afterwards. Some are better some are worse. Personally I do not like photos that have been so airbrushed in paintshop or photoshop that they look more like a pastel painting than a photo, but I avoid photos by the ones that do it regularly.

Posted by Marcus J. Ranum: 

Posted by Chelsea Harris: 

"Online photographer with a cartoon up as his avatar: I probably suck". lol. 

Like I said, if you're worrying about how someone else does their art, instead of worrying about your own, you probably suck. Or are a jerk. Or both.

mjr.

dude just stfu and quit trying to start shit with someone online.

Posted by Monsante Bey: 

Posted by piers: 
What's with all this puritanical rubbish that says you must work with one hand tied behind your back rather than simply choosing the right tools for the job and getting on with it?

Because we're purists, which means that we believe in capturing the beauty of an image through our lens first and foremost. That's the mark of a TRUE photographer.

accept change and learn photoshop..you will notice that your images will be much better quality... retouching in photoshop is STANDARD in this industry....Photoshop CS is actually the mark of a true professional photographer..you are mistaken.

Posted by Chelsea Harris: 
Because... a lot of amatures use all the layers, color effects, soft glow distortion, and more to make their photo's into "art". Im not talking about all photographers, some people do some really cool stuff and make a living off of crazy looking digital art but that is just different. Im talking about people who jus suck and then "Photographer learns layers" and wala! They have them selves a masterpeice! Ok that's my rant. Fire back at me if you want, Im just rambling and ranting.. letting it out on a forum. bye :-).


Chelsea H

I agree 100%. I'm kind of blown away with how much people us PS on their work.

Posted by Matthew A Cooke: 

Posted by Monsante Bey: 

Posted by piers: 
What's with all this puritanical rubbish that says you must work with one hand tied behind your back rather than simply choosing the right tools for the job and getting on with it?

Because we're purists, which means that we believe in capturing the beauty of an image through our lens first and foremost. That's the mark of a TRUE photographer.

accept change and learn photoshop..you will notice that your images will be much better quality... retouching in photoshop is STANDARD in this industry....Photoshop CS is actually the mark of a true professional photographer..you are mistaken.

Maybe if you're talking about the modeling industry alone. But if you're talking about art photography then you couldn't be more off beat. Art Photographers are purists and yes you can tell who's real and who isn't. Photoshop is a great tool but that doesn't make you a good photographer it makes you a digital artist. I for one love Photoshop and use it quite often but when you're making adjustments for photos that should have been done on your camera during the shoot then you need to step up the shooting skills. Art Photographers know pure raw skill stands out and is highly respected. That's why you have some film photographers that print the edges of the negative in the darkroom.

Posted by Rafael  Alvarez: 
But if you're talking about art photography then you couldn't be more off beat. Art Photographers are purists and yes you can tell who's real and who isn't.

Of course you can.

Does hours of postprocessing in the darkroom count against ones rating as "real" or not? If it does, you'll need to exclude Weston, Ansel Adams, Eugene Smith, Mapplethorpe, Karsh, Arnold Newman, Caponigro, Winogrand, and, of very course, Jerry Uelsmann--all of whom are considered "real", and are highly respected as well.

If it doesn't count against the, of course, you've created a false double-standard, but, hey, it's your opinion of "whos's real", and nobody elses, so you can use whatever arbitrary values you want. Most galleries don't use that definition.

Posted by Chelsea Harris: 
Because... a lot of amatures use all the layers, color effects, soft glow distortion, and more to make their photo's into "art". Im not talking about all photographers, some people do some really cool stuff and make a living off of crazy looking digital art but that is just different. Im talking about people who jus suck and then "Photographer learns layers" and wala! They have them selves a masterpeice! Ok that's my rant. Fire back at me if you want, Im just rambling and ranting.. letting it out on a forum. bye :-).


Chelsea H

They selling any of that art?

Posted by Chelsea Harris: 

Posted by Marcus J. Ranum: 

Posted by Chelsea Harris: 

"Online photographer with a cartoon up as his avatar: I probably suck". lol. 

Like I said, if you're worrying about how someone else does their art, instead of worrying about your own, you probably suck. Or are a jerk. Or both.

dude just stfu and quit trying to start shit with someone online.

Excuse me?? I wasn't trying to start anything with you. You made a sweeping statement about "amatures" who "just suck" and started the whole "suck" ball rolling. Apparently you couldn't handle my observation that people who worry too much about other people's art sucking are probably paying too much attention to the wrong thing and should be paying more attention to their own art. So you chose to try to directly make fun of my avatar. Which pretty much proved my original point.

Act like a grown up and get your head screwed on straight; don't go telling people to "stfu" (ooooh! cute!) because they don't agree with you.

And stop worrying so much about how other people do their art: worry about your own. You're actually pretty good, from what I can see of your portfolio. So why do you care about other photographers using photoshop? Chill out and take a few more pictures, follow your muse, enjoy photographing whatever you like, and let the "amatures" do their thing and learn at their own pace.

"gtfu" (grow the...)

mjr.

Posted by Chelsea Harris: 
Because... a lot of amatures use all the layers, color effects, soft glow distortion, and more to make their photo's into "art". Im not talking about all photographers, some people do some really cool stuff and make a living off of crazy looking digital art but that is just different. Im talking about people who jus suck and then "Photographer learns layers" and wala! They have them selves a masterpeice! Ok that's my rant. Fire back at me if you want, Im just rambling and ranting.. letting it out on a forum. bye :-).


Chelsea H

My Beautiful F.P. in this case F. Standing for Fantastic and P for Photographer. Photoshop is a tool for those that use digital cameras. Such as Filters and tecture screens used to make special effects to Film on black and white or color. I use to use double negatives such as one being distorted and the other of the image i was going to print. Lots of neat trick to use with film like paint brushes to coat the film glue to hide parts that you dont want developed many many different ways to make a film print look just as beautiful as you would a digital print. I use Photoshot as a tool to work with my images and some how get the effect I am looking for. Think of Photoshop as a Bra would you go braless if you had a see through dress. Well in your case you would look sexier heheheh

Posted by Monsante Bey: 
I think you guys are missing my point...

WTF do you think photographers were doing BEFORE photoshop? Before internet portfolios? Huh? Please, tell me. I'd like to know.

I only use photoshop to brighten, crop and enhance the color of my pics because I shoot film, so I lose color and brightness in the transfer. Other than that, the land portfolio is killer.

Posted by Rafael  Alvarez: 

Posted by Matthew A Cooke: 

Posted by Monsante Bey: 

Posted by piers: 
What's with all this puritanical rubbish that says you must work with one hand tied behind your back rather than simply choosing the right tools for the job and getting on with it?

Because we're purists, which means that we believe in capturing the beauty of an image through our lens first and foremost. That's the mark of a TRUE photographer.

accept change and learn photoshop..you will notice that your images will be much better quality... retouching in photoshop is STANDARD in this industry....Photoshop CS is actually the mark of a true professional photographer..you are mistaken.

Maybe if you're talking about the modeling industry alone. But if you're talking about art photography then you couldn't be more off beat. Art Photographers are purists and yes you can tell who's real and who isn't. Photoshop is a great tool but that doesn't make you a good photographer it makes you a digital artist. I for one love Photoshop and use it quite often but when you're making adjustments for photos that should have been done on your camera during the shoot then you need to step up the shooting skills. Art Photographers know pure raw skill stands out and is highly respected. That's why you have some film photographers that print the edges of the negative in the darkroom.

Posted by MikeyBoy: 
Howdy Folks !

This is always a great topic...  it inspires everything from anger to disgust to ridiculous statements.. to actual thoughtful responses..

While everyone agrees that PS is allowed to be used for pimple removal and cropping and color balance..  why even that ?  If the "True" photog who is loyal to some unseen law of 'Trueness".. why not crop in camera.... get a proper Makup job on model and properly white balance your Digital Rebel so that your masterpiece is perefect on capture ?

Then and only then will you be a "True" photog...  oh by the way... none of these photogs exist... just like the "Perfect Woman"... just a fairy tale..

Happy Holidays !

Mikey

p.s.... Marcus.. you Rock !
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