Charisse D wrote:
Well, Modelogic is a licensee of them here in VA. Stacie contacted me and I have to meet with her on Monday. She told me that the next step after that will be getting my comp card done and she told me that I was free to choose a photographer of my choice to do my shoot, and we would discuss everything on Mon. I have just been wary due to all the scams out there, but I just wanted to know everyone's thoughts.
http://www.wilhelmina.com/2003/licensees.html
http://www.modelogic.com

Sounds legit.  Only other thing is to verify "Stacie" works for the company by calling modelogic during business hours and asking to speak with her...but not on the number from her business card or whatever number she gave you...get the number from the web site. (assuming they're not the same)

Edited to add: Your stats make me a little leery of the offer...at 5'4" you're not typical agency material.  Why not tell us the whole story...what exactly has transpired?

(Why can't people start out that way? Why does the whole story only come out after several responses to the thread?)

Edited again to add: I'm sorry I take it back...looking at their roster, they represent mostly "real people" models.  I'm sure you'll do well with them.  Congratulations and good luck.

Diana Moffitt wrote:
So they contacted you?  How did they find you?  Kind of funny how they are using wilhelmenia's name.  But I would go to see how the meeting goes...doesn't hurt to see what they say.

I sent pictures\contact info to them and she called me. I was wondering as well about the name change as there were just Modelogic, but them on Wilhelmina's site is states them as a licensee.

Sounds legit.  Only other thing is to verify "Stacie" works for the company by calling modelogic during business hours and asking to speak with her...but not on the number from her business card or whatever number she gave you...get the number from the web site. (assuming they're not the same)

Edited to add: Your stats make me a little leery of the offer...at 5'4" you're not typical agency material.  Why not tell us the whole story...what exactly has transpired?

(Why can't people start out that way? Why does the whole story only come out after several responses to the thread?)

Sorry about that..lol. I have a greater lean towards acting, which they also rep. They do have a few females with my similar stats that have done some commercial print work. I know I'm wayyyyy off the mark for fashion work...lol

Charisse D wrote:
Sorry about that..lol. I have a greater lean towards acting, which they also rep. They do have a few females with my similar stats that have done some commercial print work. I know I'm wayyyyy off the mark for fashion work...lol

Yes, my apologies, I edited again, but a second or two too late.  I see they represent a lot of "real people" so, if her number matches the one on the web site, and/or you call and verify her employment there, and/or if you're going to the address that they list on their website for the meeting then there is very little to worry about.  Good Luck!!!

And please keep me in mind for your test shots for your comp card...

Angelus wrote:
Interesting thing just happened here.

A posting involving a legit agency. The number one billing agency of '05 at that.

I believe you knew about Wilhemina but were just skeptical of Modelogic. Although you didn't make that clear. Am I correct?

But that's besides the issue. If they're a licensee that's great. You're good to go.

Congratulations! And I wish you much luck!

Yes you are right, thanks so much!!

Angelus wrote:
If they're a licensee that's great. You're good to go.

Oh for God's sake - Transcontental Talent [aka TCT; Transcon; and Wilhelmina Scouting Network - now known as TakentRock] was also a "licensee" of Wilhelmina and we all know what that was.

Don't take that [being a licensee] on face value. Do your homework first. Visit them. If it doesn't look "right" when you do, it probably isn't.

One positive thing in their favor is this directory listing:

AFTRA-SAG [actors guild]
Virginia
These agents are not franchised, but are authorized by the Guild to represent union talent and collect commission in accordance with the codified agency regulations.

MODELOGIC, INC.
PO Box 12143
Richmond, VA 23241-0143
(804) 644-1000
www.modelogic.com

Listed with 4 others that AFTRA-SAG also "authorise" in the VA area. and three that AFTRA-SAG "franchise" themselves in Maryland [Washington/Baltimore area]

Studio36

studio36uk wrote:
Oh for God's sake - Transcontental Talent [aka TCT; Transcon; and Wilhelmina Scouting Network - now known as TakentRock] was also a "licensee" of Wilhelmina and we all know what that was.

It's called dry humor. duh!

*rethinks his career in comdey.

But I did mean the congratulations!

studio36uk wrote:
Oh for God's sake - Transcontental Talent [aka TCT; Transcon; and Wilhelmina Scouting Network - now known as TakentRock] was also a "licensee" of Wilhelmina and we all know what that was.

TCT was not a licensee of Wilhelmina as in their current licensee program. Wilhelmina licensed them to use their name only for a fee.  They were not licensed to operate an agency.  TCT was a scouting company.  There is a big difference.  Wilhelmina (the company, Wilhelmina herself, died at the age of 42 some years back) was a victim in that transaction as well.  They got caught offguard and pulled out very quickly once they realized what they got into.

The Licensee program, which is referenced on their site, is one of the reactions they had to prevent a recurrence of the TCT scandal.  A licensee is just that.  They are licensed to use their name while operating as an agency.

There are now qualifications, including being properly licensed and have approved business practices.  Part of the process is to cause smaller agents to operate ethically by holding out the carrot of endorsement by Wilhelmina.

TCT was an abherition.  Wilhelmina is a great agency with both clout and experience.  I think you are looking at a licensee in a small market, but within those limitations, I think it is good to get involved with them.

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:

TCT was not a licensee of Wilhelmina as in their current licensee program. Wilhelmina licensed them to use their name only for a fee.  They were not licensed to operate an agency.  TCT was a scouting company.  There is a big difference.  Wilhelmina (the company, Wilhelmina herself, died at the age of 42 some years back) was a victim in that transaction as well.  They got caught offguard and pulled out very quickly once they realized what they got into.

The Licensee program, which is referenced on their site, is one of the reactions they had to prevent a recurrence of the TCT scandal.  A licensee is just that.  They are licensed to use their name while operating as an agency.

There are now qualifications, including being properly licensed and have approved business practices.  Part of the process is to cause smaller agents to operate ethically by holding out the carrot of endorsement by Wilhelmina.

TCT was an abherition.  Wilhelmina is a great agency with both clout and experience.  I think you are looking at a licensee in a small market, but within those limitations, I think it is good to get involved with them.

Wasn't that the same company as Options Talent? I may be mistaken...

I'm very happy for you that the agency is interested in you. Good luck, and who knows...maybe we will end up seeing you on tv or in the big screen before too long!

Rebecca Alsbury wrote:
Wasn't that the same company as Options Talent? I may be mistaken...

And eModels and a bunch of others.  You might want to read about the owner, he was a character too.  But your point is well taken.  Wilhelmina would have been better served if they had done their homework before getting involved with them rather than after.

Eric Muss-Barnes wrote:
Pay attention to what Alan said. There is a legitimate Wilhelmenia and they are a huge, respectable agency. Then there is another one that is a huge scam. I'm not sure of the details on the scam agency. Just do your research first and make sure you are dealing with the proper agency.

This is the real one:
http://www.wilhelmina.com

yup.  be careful.  there was a very shocking and damning expose on the other wilhelmina a couple of years back on 20/20.  they were using the name tct/transcontinental, and then switched to wilhelmina.

Rebecca Alsbury wrote:
Wasn't that the same company as Options Talent? I may be mistaken...

You are not mistaken. And known under several other names, as well, but always with the same underlying players and the same modus operandi.

Studio36

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:

TCT was not a licensee of Wilhelmina as in their current licensee program. Wilhelmina licensed them to use their name only for a fee.  They were not licensed to operate an agency.  TCT was a scouting company.  There is a big difference.  Wilhelmina (the company, Wilhelmina herself, died at the age of 42 some years back) was a victim in that transaction as well.  They got caught offguard and pulled out very quickly once they realized what they got into.

Alan I have seen the legal papers on that issue. Wilhelmina pulled the plug when the scamsters scammed them too and failed to make payments for the use of their name. But for that who knows how long they could have continued to use the name.

A little due diligence might have avoided that.

Studio36

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:

And eModels and a bunch of others.  You might want to read about the owner, he was a character too.  But your point is well taken.  Wilhelmina would have been better served if they had done their homework before getting involved with them rather than after.

Thought so. Yes, I know all about them. I remember getting suckered into working for them as a "scout" for about a week. Then, after I listened closely to how they swindle people out of their money, I told them I was going to look for a real job, and basically told them where they can put their e-model scam...

Little fact: Options Talent never used the real names of employees for their "director's name". Each city that had an O.T., had an office director with the initials that match the city's name. Example: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma had a director with the name of Olivia C. Owens. The "scouts" would frequent the malls and restaurants.

As far as the guy who started the whole scam...yeah, he was a nut-case. I wouldn't really say he's a character, because that is not strong enough of a word for him....

Charisse D wrote:
I did a search on this and it rendered nothing posted here. Have any of you heard of this agency or dealt with them, or what are your thoughts on them.

My ex was actually with them a few years back...they are a legit agency, they're only like 2 in richmond..lol....the jobs they'll find you are mostly going to be newspaper print ads and the majority of them are stock photos so you get paid once....keep in mind you won't get any checks until about 3 months after each job...
But if you think like me money is money so Congrats

model7299 wrote:
"Wilhelmina" the model MANAGEMENT is full of shit.

Wilhelmina in NYC is Wilhelmina Model Management.  It was shortened to Wilhelmina Models a few years back.  Most of the agencies in NYC are management companies and not agencies because of NY law.  It has to do with agencies actually falling under the laws for employment agencies (NY doesn't actually license modeling agencies, just employment agencies).

Wilhelmina Scouting Network is something entirely different.

Modelogic is a licensee of the real Wilhelmina Models out of NYC and has nothing to do with Wilhelmina Scouting Network.

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:

Wilhelmina in NYC is Wilhelmina Model Management.  It was shortened to Wilhelmina Models a few years back.  Most of the agencies in NYC are management companies and not agencies because of NY law.  It has to do with agencies actually falling under the laws for employment agencies (NY doesn't actually license modeling agencies, just employment agencies).

Wilhelmina Scouting Network is something entirely different.

Modelogic is a licensee of the real Wilhelmina Models out of NYC and has nothing to do with Wilhelmina Scouting Network.

Alan is definitely a man who does his homework. Wise man...

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:

Wilhelmina in NYC is Wilhelmina Model Management.  It was shortened to Wilhelmina Models a few years back.  Most of the agencies in NYC are management companies and not agencies because of NY law.  It has to do with agencies actually falling under the laws for employment agencies (NY doesn't actually license modeling agencies, just employment agencies).

Wilhelmina Scouting Network is something entirely different.

Modelogic is a licensee of the real Wilhelmina Models out of NYC and has nothing to do with Wilhelmina Scouting Network.

Yup that's why Wilhelmenia was involved in so many lawsuits because they were total sell outs whoring their name on the streets for a few bucks.  Awesome agency in NYC regardless of that issue..  But hmm your location is not the greatest.  Move to LA or NYC when you get more experience.   Good luck!

Steven Bigler wrote:
Ignore all these "experts" that just gave you all the WRONG info.....

if it is not directly to the 3
(305) (212) (323)... run.


And please people... stop giving bad info!

Steve...buddy...

Life *does* exist outside the 305/212/323 area codes....

Take a deep breath...I know...it's hard to believe.

The site which the original poster put a link to *is* wilhelmina as in the 300 lb gorilla of modeling agencies.

http://www.wilhelmina.com/2003/licensees.html

Whilhelmina *does* license  other agents/agencies to use their name as a way of saying "hey, these guys are ok to work with".

Modelogic *is* a licensee of Wilhelmina...

There was no bad advice thus far other than yours.

Steven Bigler wrote:
Ignore all these "experts" that just gave you all the WRONG info.....

Wilhelmina Model Management, in Miami Beach, New York, and Los Angeles... are real.

However there is a scam that has incorporated the name "Wilhelmina" into their name..... last report it was "Wilhelmina Model Network".... this and ANYTHING other than the 3 mentioned above... are a fake.

Simply ask them for an agency contact number... if it is not directly to the 3
(305) (212) (323)... run.


And please people... stop giving bad info!

Yes, we all know Steven is the only "expert" on all things to do with this industry...It's funny how I didn't once read anyone in the previous posts call themselves an expert...hmm...interesting...
Actually, I don't see anything wrong involving the information that I or a few others gave about the scam dealing with a company taking Wilhelmina's namesake and running it in the ground. I only stated what my own personal experiences with the scam were, and I myself, am well aware of the legitimate agency compared to the scam artists.

Nature of Business -
According to the company, Wilhemina Image is a development program for aspiring models. The company provides educational information and training. The cost of the program is $975.00 and includes tuition, photos, and comp cards. Wilhemina Image does not guarantee that the model will gain employment in the Richmond market or any other market. Wilhemina Image does not and will not represent the model to modeling or acting agencies nor will they place the model with any assignments or jobs. The full terms and conditions of the program are detailed on the enrollment form.

So which is it?

Interesting to note that in many states including NY and California they may not operate both businesses, if indeed there are two businesses here, from the same address. In VA, however?

Studio36

studio36uk wrote:
OK... so in one breath (at least according to the AFTRA-SAG listing) they are an "agency" (Modelogic) and in the next breath (according to the BBB) they are a "modelling school" (Wilhelmina Image)

So which is it?

Interesting to note that in many states including NY and California they may not operate both businesses, if indeed there are two businesses here, from the same address. In VA, however?

Studio36

Wilhelmina Models is one of the big agency that people would want to go to be represented by if you meet their requirements. I think they are one of the top agencies around.

Wilhelmina will liscense out their name to certain companies, such as modellogic.
Apparently the business model logic must have or sometimes go under Wilhelmina Image as well.

Posters have mentioned above that the program to become a licensees has become more strict and specfic so they (and aspiring youngsters) will not get ripped off and have their name attached to scammers.

Wilhelmina Models (the agency based in NY, CA, and Miami.) has a listing of their licensees.

If this is not what you were asking I'm sorry but for some reason I think you're trying to say that Wilhelmina Models and Wilhelmina ModelLogic are the same people. They are not.


Whether they are an agency or just a modeling school is not clear from appearance. They were very vague and short in emails that I've dealt with. I read that information and emailed them back and mentioned that I mistook them for an agency and not a modeling development company. I guess I will hear back from them on Monday.

Brandy Engle wrote:
Whether they are an agency or just a modeling school is not clear from appearance. They were very vague and short in emails that I've dealt with. I read that information and emailed them back and mentioned that I mistook them for an agency and not a modeling development company. I guess I will hear back from them on Monday.

Most agencies in smaller towns are also modeling schools. I am not a big fan of modeling schools.  While there are those who can benefit, most people do not need modeling schools to succeed in the business.  However, I know a lot of models who could have done fine without modeling school but enjoyed the experience.  So from my perspective, while I wouldn't generally recommend a modeling school, I take it for what it is.  A modeling school is a modeling school.

Many people say that modeling schools are scams.  Actually, that is untrue.   A "scam" is where someone sells you something but does not deliver.  As an example, if you buy a new camera on eBay and you are delivered a used one that was non-working.

My experience is that most modeling schools deliver exactly what they say, they provide you with modeling classes.  That is why many modeling schools have satisfactory ratings with the BBB and are legally licensed in many states.

There are schools that teach all kinds of useless skills, but there are people who want to take the classes.  And that is the bottom line.  Where modeling schools break down is that they offer a sense of false hope to people that schooling leads to success.  Sometimes it does.  I have seen introverted people come out of their shell and there was no doubt that modeling school helped.  The problem is that in most cases it doesn't help.

But here is another big however, I am not a believer in schools deciding who has the "look" to participate.  While I think a lot of schools are filled with aspirants that will never succeed, I think it is for the student to decide if they want the classees.  The problem again is that schools tend to hide the challenges from young students that come from not havng the look.  Where I take exception is to sign up a 5'1" model and not tell her that her height will make things more difficult for her.

So I am not a fan of schools.  But the BBB report we saw dealt primarily with the school and not the agency.  I don't know anything about either one, except that Modelogic is aparently a legitimate licensee of Wilhelmina Models.

One has to look at market size.  Modelogic can be the most reputable agency in the area and they will still be in a small market.  There are only a handful of places where one can make a full-time living as a commercial model.

My guess is that Modelogic is operated as a separate division from the school and is reputable, but small.  The school operates probably operates as a school, and it is what it is, a school.

The real question to me is whether the OP intends to remain in her small market?   If she does, as long as they are not asking for any advance fees, then I see no harm in signing with a small, reputable local agency.  Whatever bookings she gets is more than she has now.

The things that she wants to be concerned about are whether they charge a fee to sign with the agency, is she required to take classes in order to sign, is she required to have them shoot a portfolio or do they require her to buy expensive printing packages?  If the answers to these things are "No" then there is no great risk.

If she is planning on moving to NYC, L.A., Chicago, Miami, etc in the near future, then Modelogic will be a dissappointment to her.

Oh well, good luck to the OP.  This thread has had some interesting comments.

Chu wrote:
Wilhemina is a good company.  The owner is mother to Kadeem Hardison, Dwayne Wayne, of a different world.  They are up in the ranks with Forbes, Trump, ING, Elite, etc.

I know they send scouts out to shows.  I was at a fashion show were I danced the intermission and one of the scouts was there, they introduced him and everything.  He picked out like two girls, but they didn't have a clue of the company-there loss.

OK, I think it is time for a bit of history.  Wilhelminal Models is named after its founder, Wilhelmina Cooper.  Wilhelmina was a supermodel from Sweden.  She started the agency in 1967.

Willie, as we used to call her, was the powerhouse before most of the big agencies we know, such as Ford, were even started.  I have met her once and talked to her a couple of times on the phone.  I have friends who used to hang out in her, daily.

What made the agency unique was her prowess for communication.  Gone were the days when agents were dull and drab.  To a large degree, she helped usher in the age of supermodels by elevating models from a picture in a magazine to someone who was bigger than life.  She has a lot to do with models becoming household names today.

Sadly, Wilhelmina died of cancer in 1982.  She was only 42 and died before her time.  By then, other agencies, Such as Ford had started and the paridgam she forwarded had become the standard for the business.

Wilhelmina Models has been sold a number of times since her death.  The last time I looked, it was owned largely by Click.  Management has changed and the principles have changed a number of times over the years as well.  That is part of the reason for the Wilhelmina Scouting Network debacle.  Some owners wanted to find ways to market the name.

Now that they are controlled by another major agency, they have pushed back towards their roots.  I doubt that they will make the same mistake again.   Wilhelmina is and always has been a great agency.   There is no doubt that the loss of their founder has affected them over the years, but by and large, they continue to be one of the big ones.

Getting signed with Wilhelmina in NYC or L.A. is a good thing.  One of my close friends in L.A. is signed exclusively with them for print and she gets big jobs all the time.  I walk though the Bay Street Mall and I see lifesize posters of her all over the walls.  She got a gig as the spokesperson.

OK, enough of history.  There will be a quiz on this later.

1.  Who was Wilhelmina?
2.  Why is this information so boring?

Good morning MM'ers

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
My guess is that Modelogic is operated as a separate division from the school and is reputable, but small.  The school operates probably operates as a school, and it is what it is, a school.

FWIW Alan I have looked at the actual street address for both [because the AFTRA-SAG listing was only a POBox#] and though under the same ownership they do at least appear to operate from different physical addresses as well as having two different websites - and via the website for Wilhelmina Image turns up a different telephone number as well; but what is just a bit bothersome is that the "About" info on the websites uncomfortably co-mingles information for both operations.

MODELOGIC [WILHELMINA]
2501 E. Broad Street
Richmond, VA 23223
Phone: (804) 644 1000

and

Wilhemina Image
2100 East Main Street
Richmond, VA 23223
Phone: (804) 644 1000
ALSO GIVEN AS: 804 644 7777

If I were from Missouri, the "Show Me" state, I would be inclined to say: "Show me." That is not to say that they couldn't show me to my satisfaction.

Studio36

Chu wrote:
The owner is mother to Kadeem Hardison

His mother does own a reputable modeling agency. It isn't Wilhemina though.

chu wrote:
ING

Just in case a newbie is reading this...she meant IMG World.

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
Now that they are controlled by another major agency, they have pushed back towards their roots.  I doubt that they will make the same mistake again.   Wilhelmina is and always has been a great agency.   There is no doubt that the loss of their founder has affected them over the years, but by and large, they continue to be one of the big ones.

To add: You'll be happy to know that Wilhemina tied with IMG World last year for number one agency.
They got the number one spot because of billings for models. "Jobs booked and paid"
So I'd say they're re-claiming their thrown.

IMG World got the number one spot in everything else because they have so many facets to their company beyond just modeling, i.e. sports, promotions, marketing, etc... Which in the end still helps out their modeling division ten fold.