Posted by Fred Brown: 
Cool - a developer, I may have some work to throw your way one day as I do front end web design and want to offer backend development. So I'm a ways off from that but  that's good to know. Anyways, Apple has a 1 hour Quick Time video on the home page of their web site from the developers convention. It's very informative.

Hehe ya I'm a developer, odd twist that I became a photographer ( most of my skills werent what you call artistic before then ) , right now I do PHP, XML/XSL and MySQL websites, with backends and all the other dynamic mess, as well as ecommerce, for example my website karlblessing.com was handcoded completely myself. (Redesign by my partner is comming soon, but the code will stay the same) I used to do ASP and Micrsoft SQL, and Access, as well as some desktop application development.

But yes I owned a mac and a PC getting a mac again soon ( my old one back from my partner when he gets a mac mini ), for testing the websites I do on safari, but for the most part if it works in firefox it works in safari. Just with the macs the way around seemed to be strictly GUI, but every once in a while, I'd like to be able to goto command line do a bunch of renames, use the applications I enjoy ( I know they have dreamweaver on the mac, but I prefer to use Primalscript, since I do everything code wise ). Also the finder doesnt do as many listings as windows, tho the finder is nice, windows I can choose a bunch of different columns, for example when I was doing the dollarbeats.com website, and my partner wanted to know the lengths of the beats before putting them up, on windows I could make a column called 'duration' but on the mac for some reason I could not, he had to import them into itunes to get it to show him what he wanted.

Posted by marksora: 
interesting development that has been in the works for some time.

If they do it right they can truly compete and even take over machines as they stand.

But many programs and much code needs to be rewritten and watch out for the bugs, bugs, bugs,

It is all about the bugs,  plus does this open Mac OS up to the virus attack and spy ware attack that they have kept away from????

Yeha surprisingly, I watched their developers conference which can be found on their home page. They said when they introduced the Power PC processor that the software was already set to work on the intel platform. It was a backup plan that the implemented. So for the past 5 years, they have had macs running in development on intel based machines and all of OSX 10 can run on an intel based machine. They also have a tool they they gave to their developers that allows them to generate a dual binary code that runs on both PowerPC and Intel. Looks like they are way ahead of themselves. In fact the machine the guy was using at the conference was a p4 3.6Ghz machine.

Posted by marksora: 
If they do it right they can truly compete and even take over machines as they stand.

Not sure on your version of 'right'. The idea of a version of OSX that would run on any PC has been floated many times before. To release such a thing would have a very strong risk of reducing Apple to a software producer only - not something I would hold your breath waiting for.

Posted by marksora: 
It is all about the bugs,  plus does this open Mac OS up to the virus attack and spy ware attack that they have kept away from????

Again, unlikely. Most, if not all the security flaws that regular PC users face stem from Windows not the hardware.

Posted by Fred Brown:
So for the past 5 years, they have had macs running in development on intel based machines and all of OSX 10 can run on an intel based machine.

Hardly surprising seeing as the basis of OS X is common to Unix/Linux. However not all of it runs on Intel. There is a demo machine floating round apparently - and although a 3.6GHz machine it lags someway behind a G5 for the tasks that require Altivec - http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0506intelxbench.html - there is a way to go yet.

Oh, and you command line junkies might like to know that all that stuff is available on OS via the terminal - like using right click, it is something they don't make a big deal about - but it is there.

Posted by XtremeArtists ®: 
3. If Macs can boot Windows, as an Apple exec revealed at meeting  after the Keynote...

Do you have a source for this claim?

Posted by marksora: 
Fred,
I do not know if that is true.
If it is then they should tell the business community.  For the business community seems to forsee big troubles ahead and the word is that much rewriting will have to be done.
Not sure where it needs to happen but the street is not excited just yet about this decision.

Watch the keynote address found at their site entitled Apple WWDC 2005 to see if it's true or not. The business community seems to be pleased with the fact that in 6 weeks Apple sold 2 million copies of Tiger and that in the last 9 months they have increased sales by 40%. And that they show a bigger growth rate the the PC population. The shareholders seem happy also since before now mac was unalbe to deliver what they promised and now with the intel partnership, they can exceed expectations.

The information was just released within the past few days and to the 3800 attendees which comprised of developers including the Apple business division representative from Microsoft, they all seemed pretty excited about the news. I know I know, what's 3800 people? It was the largest turn-out in Apple's history of a company and it was their developers who actually help put them on the map that comprised the 3800 attendees. Don't get me wrong, although I work on macs, I do not own one -- yet:)

Posted by Joe Swindell: 
is this a 64 bit platform?

Apple and Intel have not yet released information about what chipsets will be used - if any already-existing chipsets will be used at all - for this switch. There may or may not be an entirely new chipset developed specifically for Apple.

Posted by Jacqui: 

Posted by XtremeArtists ®: 
3. If Macs can boot Windows, as an Apple exec revealed at meeting  after the Keynote...

Do you have a source for this claim?

From http://news.com.com/Apple+throws+the+sw … ag=st.next

After Jobs' presentation, Apple Senior Vice President Phil Schiller addressed the issue of running Windows on Macs, saying there are no plans to sell or support Windows on an Intel-based Mac. "That doesn't preclude someone from running it on a Mac. They probably will," he said. "We won't do anything to preclude that."

Posted by Joe Swindell: 
is this a 64 bit platform?

The Dev Kit isn't, so I wouldn't expect to see 64 bit software any time soon.

I expect they are shredding obsolete marketing materials in Cupertino.

Posted by michaelGIORDANO: 
I don't think the hard-core PC users do not understand the ramifications of this change.

I had a hardcore PC user (Likes Linux more than Windows BUT likes Windows more than MacOS) came to me and said...."WELCOME TO THE DARK SIDE"....I looked at him and said....what the chip switch?  he says, "Yea."  I told him I could care less....It's the OS!  Stared at me blankly...(I was right.)

This change will clearly DEFINE the difference in Operating Systems and people will look at the Mac OS more so than Windows than they ever did before on Apple PPC based hardware.  Whats even more interesting is how much more of a change and feature sets will there be in the Mac OS when they release a new version of OS X (code named Leopard) right around the time Longwait (Longhorn - minus some features in order to come out in 2007 on time.) is released.  This is in an effort to get more people to consider the switch to Mac like they did with the iPod and it's "iPod Halo effect."

I would not be surprised if Apple's engineers put in some time on the chip design to collaborate with Intel's basic chip design.  It should be an interesting turn of events.

So, now in the end, "It's the OS stupid!"

I agree with you 100% Michael, but in addition to PPC we are also losing Open Firmware. The Dev Kit uses a Phoenix BIOS. *pukes*

They can customize the BIOS, but this means the startup chime, built-in mouse input, and a host of other features that have made a Mac a Mac will be changing in some way.

The ironic thing with all the focus on the OS that us users have, Apple is a hardware company, not a software company.

Take iTunes music sales for example (the music is the software). They make very little money on the software (MP3s) but make the software available to create a music distribution channel that will fuel sales of hardware (iPods).

I wonder if this processor change might also mark a change in Apple's business model?

Posted by XtremeArtists ®: 
This isn't a Mac -v- PC thread, so nobody cares that you prefer an imitation of the correct behavior.

Besides, you can always maximize the program window so you don't have to see the desktop.

No this is not a Mac vs. PC thread, but if you look at the post just before mine you will see Michael was singing the praises of the software. I don't have those same views on the software for the reasons I stated. I don't think I mentioned PCs or Windoze.

Most consumers don't care if the thing runs Intel or Motarola. You don't buy a system based on the hardware, you buy a system based on what software it can do. You can be offered the most pumped up PC in the world but if it won't run what you need it to, you won't buy it.

When you bought your Mac you bought it because it ran the software you needed, not because it had a certain brand of chip under the hood. Most likely you stayed with Macs after that because you could still use the software you had gathered for it.

I think moving to an Intel chip is a very good move for Apple. Think about it I can have a dual boot system that will run my "artistic" software and my Windoze based programs too. If they make it so you can run both at the same time and toggle between the OSes.... oh just got goosebumps...

Mike

Posted by Jacqui: 

Posted by XtremeArtists ®: 
3. If Macs can boot Windows, as an Apple exec revealed at meeting  after the Keynote...

Do you have a source for this claim?

The only thing I know that will run Windows Based Software on a Mac is a software called Virtual PC....which then it pretends to be windows and allows you to open and used windows software.

Posted by Mike Cummings: 
....Michael was singing the praises of the software. I don't have those same views on the software ...

I am not the only one praising it.  Almost every PC based editorial echoes my views as well as MOST people.  You must be the .001% who does not.

I am sorry.

How Unfortunate.

Posted by michaelGIORDANO: 

Posted by Mike Cummings: 
....Michael was singing the praises of the software. I don't have those same views on the software ...

I am not the only one praising it.  Almost every PC based editorial echoes my views as well as MOST people.  You must be the .001% who does not.

I am sorry.

How Unfortunate.

Yeah, my brother says the same thing to me too. He is one of those "if it ain't Mac, it a sh*t" kind of guys. Good thing blood is thicker than OSes. ;-)

Please don't misunderstand me, my only problem with the MAC software is the GUI. I just don't like how it "feels". (same with Unix) I don't like when I close a window I can see it "shrink" down to the bottom. It distracts me.

With that said I will tell you what I use on a daily basis. Windows XP, Windows ME, Windows 98, Unix (sorry forgot the ver.), DOS, and OS 9, OS X. Like I said people (should) buy systems based on what they need to run.

I hope that the Intel based Macs will run Windows at the same time. I know it would save my company a ton of money when replacing computers.

Mike

Posted by Mike Cummings:

I hope that the Intel based Macs will run Windows at the same time. I know it would save my company a ton of money when replacing computers.

Mike

I guess Apple is going head to head with Dell more so than Microsoft if Macs run Windows.

Posted by XtremeArtists ®: 

Posted by Mike Cummings:

I hope that the Intel based Macs will run Windows at the same time. I know it would save my company a ton of money when replacing computers.

Mike

I guess Apple is going head to head with Dell more so than Microsoft if Macs run Windows.

I think you are right. Trying to go head to head with Microsoft has kept Apple at a disadvantage. We all know how hard it is to kill the Borg... err Microsoft.

The more I think about it, a true dual OS machine would be fantastic. I work at a direct mail (junk mail) house, our artists use Macs but our print and mail software is Windows based. We are in the process of switching to a Mac server because the cost on the Windows server is too much. For a business, the new Intel Macs would be the way to go. Lower overall cost by eliminating extra machines AND you could buy any software that met your need no matter whose OS it runs on. (assuming Mac or Windows)

This article says that Apple switched because Freescale could not make a good 3 gigahertz chip. They also say this may slow Mac sells while people wait for the new chipset.
http://www.axcessnews.com/technology_061105a.shtml

All in all I think this is a good move for Apple.

Mike

Posted by Dupin & Dupin: 
If macs went the way of Dell/Windows based PCs it will completely undermind the BRAND.  If it did happen, the value of apple will drop. 

I think you are wrong there. Think about it from a sales point of view. I could now offer my customer a machine that not only will it run Mac software but will also run Windows without emulation. I don't care for Macs, because of the reasons I stated, but I would buy a machine that could run both OSes. (assuming pricepoint was not too high) Assuming I could get two machines worth in one box for the price of 1 1/2 machines, I would buy.

Grandma will still buy her WinTel box, but people the really use their computers for productivity and not "toys" will move to the MacTels. Just had another thought, gamers would move to MacTel too.

Mike

Posted by XtremeArtists ®: 
From Slashdot:

patr1ck writes "Mac Daily News is reporting that Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger for x86 processors has been leaked to the internet already. Apparently the version running on the development kit machines is easily transfered to run on any x86 machine. Conspiracy theorists unite: an Apple marketing scheme?"

I doubt its something apple wanted, their software is one of the main reason people buy mac hardware. Apple doesnt make much money on their software as it is.

Posted by XtremeArtists ®: 
I agree they are a hardware company.

However, the profit margins on software are much larger than hardware.

Just look at Microsoft.

Well there ya go, microsoft is a software company, where their bucks are at, apple doesnt charge nearly as much for their own software ( tho third party company that make software for apple computers is a different story )

I mean Look at OS X, 129$ for a single liscence thats about the same as windows XP pro in features which normally goes for 300$ full licence, OSX you want a 5 pack family liscence no problem push the price upto 199$ , windows xp pro, you gota buy 300 x 4 more.

Posted by XtremeArtists ®: 
Yes, but on that $129 sale, maybe 90% is profit if you buy from Apple. Compare this to 5% to 10% profit on the hardware.

The linked article makes several good points which you don't really address.

I probally dont address them because I dont think of them, as they dont normally apply to me. I owned both, had a G4 733Mhtz with OSX shiped on it, but I also build my own PCs. Also being a developer I havent quite found as many good tools for webdevelopment that I have found made for OSX , dreamweaver probally bout closest they come but I seem to prefer primalscript. Also I know my way around windows much faster.

But if they did have OS X for the x86 platform without special hardware I'm all for it from a developer stand point of view, I would load that sucker up on vmware in a heartbeat for webdevelopment testing purposes.