Photographer
WMcK
Posts: 5298
Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
Well SED technology is alleged to be on the horizon, but however it has been for about ten years now with no sign of production starting. If it ever happens, it will combine CRT quality with LCD compactness, and may be the display of the future, unles, of course, overtaken by OLEDs.
Photographer
lll
Posts: 12295
Seattle, Washington, US
B R E E D L O V E wrote:
Thanks Leo I tried to bu the last Lenevo you recommended but they were not selling them anymore. Oh? I see a few other vendors are still selling them, though probably not at Lenovo themselves. I just checked Google shopping, and saw a few (from good vendors with good resellerrating ranking). Hope this helps Terry.
Photographer
CameraSight
Posts: 1126
Roselle Park, New Jersey, US
Michael Pandolfo wrote:
This is taken from another forum and I found it extremely helpful in making a monitor decision. I apologize to the person who provided the info because I had cut & pasted it into a Word doc.
Here's a list of LCD monitors and their respective OEM panels used:
Just a quick note: TN film is junk for color (great for speed), do NOT buy "TN" type LCDs for your color critical use.
Model/Panel Index
* = identical Samsung panel
Dell
Dell 1905FP - 19" Samsung PVA (LTM190E4-L02) or AU Optronics P-MVA (M190EN03 V0) ** Note, you are lucky if you have the Samsung panel **
Dell 1907FP - 19" TN Film
Dell 2001FP - 20" LG.Philips S-IPS (LM201U04)
Dell 2005FPW - 20" WS LG.Philips S-IPS (LM201W01)
Dell 2007WFP - 20" WS LG.Philips S-IPS (LM201W01)
Dell 2007FP - 20" LG.Philips S-IPS (LM201U04)
Dell 2405FPW - 24" WS Samsung PVA (LTM240M1-L01)
Dell 2407WFP - 24" WS Samsung S-PVA (LM201W01)
Dell 3007WFP - 30" WS LG.Philips S-IPS (LM300W01)
Gateway
Gateway FPD2185W - 21" WS Samsung S-PVA (LTM210M2)*
HP
HP F2105 - 21" WS Samsung S-PVA (LTM210M2)*
NEC
NEC LCD20WGX2 - 20" LG.Philips AS-IPS (LM201W01)
Sceptre X20G Naga II 16ms 20" P-MVA
Sceptre X20G Naga II - 20" WS P-MVA
Samsung
Samsung 930B - 19" Samsung TN Film
Samsung 940B - 19" Samsung TN Film
Samsung 940T - 19" Samsung PVA (LTM190E4)
Samsung 940MW - 19"WS Samsung TN Film (LTM190M2)
Samsung 204B - 20" Samsung TN Film (LTM201UX)
Samsung 215TW - 21" WS Samsung S-PVA (LTM210M2)*
Samsung 244T - 24" WS Samsung S-PVA (LTM240M2)
ViewSonic
ViewSonic VA1912W - 19" WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1)
ViewSonic VP912B - 19" AU Optronics TN Film (M190EN04 V1)
Viewsonic VX922 - 19" AU Optronics TN Film (M190EN04)
Viewsonic VX924 - 19" AU Optronics TN Film (M190EN04 V5)
ViewSonic VP920 - 19" TN Film
ViewSonic VP930 - 19" AU Optronics P-MVA (M190EG01 V0)
ViewSonic VA1912W - 19" WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1)
ViewSonic VA2012WB - 20" WS Chunghwa Picture Tubes TN Film
ViewSonic VX2025WM - 20" WS AU Optronics P-MVA (M201EW01 V0)
I'd love to give credit where credit is due if anyone know who had compiled this info. And, yes, TN Film won't do the job. Ok .. I've been reading this thread and though it gave me some good info ....I'm confused as heck
What makes TN film monitors NG ?
I'm looking for a 20 or 22 inch LCD monitor to replace my 8 year old Samsung Syncmaster 753Df flat screen CRT . The main reason is that my tired old eyes(LOL) make it difficult to view what's on the screen . I have to set the resolution to 800x600 to SEE but that means I don't see the fulll screen .. I use a 17inch LCD monitor at work and the clarity is much better ... Anyway back to the subject.
I was looking at a Samsung LCD monitor that has a 3ms response and a 30000:1 contract ratio.
I'm not looking for a CRITICAL montior for stictly photo editing but a good overall monitor that will do a decent job
I've seen them for US $279.. and don't want to go higher ....and maybe lower
What do you think of Samsung ? I will also be visiting a computer store ( Micro Center ) that carries Viewsonic monitors . Any recommendations in this price range ?
Thanks
Retoucher
Kevin_Connery
Posts: 3307
Fullerton, California, US
CameraSight wrote:
What makes TN film monitors NG ? Current TN film-based panels only support 6-bits per color (64 shades/color). That requires dithering to get 8-bits (256 shades/channel). That in turn makes then harder to calibrate as well as harder to trust.
See the tftcentral site to check on the panel type.
Photographer
FashionPhotographer
Posts: 2521
New York, New York, US
Stephen Eastwood,
There are still a few warehouse places that sell CRT's but you are right they are a dying breed. As far as calibration systems go. I am really diggin the new color munki by xrite. For it's price its amazingly accurate and it does color sampling. It does as well as the much more expensive systems that I've used.
- Phen
Photographer
CameraSight
Posts: 1126
Roselle Park, New Jersey, US
Kevin_Connery wrote:
Current TN film-based panels only support 6-bits per color (64 shades/color). That requires dithering to get 8-bits (256 shades/channel). That in turn makes then harder to calibrate as well as harder to trust.
See the tftcentral site to check on the panel type. Thanks kevin  tftcentral is very informative!
Photographer
Kelvin Hammond
Posts: 17397
Billings, Montana, US
Kevin_Connery wrote:
Current TN film-based panels only support 6-bits per color (64 shades/color). That requires dithering to get 8-bits (256 shades/channel). That in turn makes then harder to calibrate as well as harder to trust.
See the tftcentral site to check on the panel type. CameraSight wrote:
Thanks kevin tftcentral is very informative! Even so, I'm using a Samsung 2253Lw that I got at Costco for $300ish, and as far as I'm concerned, it rocks.
I've been using an antiquated version of Monaco to match color, though I have to use it in combination with the monitor's own controls to get a close match. Note, I said close. The thing is, it's as close or better then any CRT I've ever used (though I've never used Lacie or Eizo).
As far as trust issues, the only complaint I have is judging contrast. When my stuff gets printed offset, it's been dead on. At pro labs (H&H) it's also dead on (matches monitor). At Costco, its about 85% on. (I can't seem to totally nail their system down) I don't use inkjet much, but it's fairly close on a good printer with a matched paper (calibrated set up)
So in essence, I can totally work off an inexpensive Samsung for the printing sources that I use.
Photographer
Rp-photo
Posts: 42711
Houston, Texas, US
I've had a Samsung 245T for a little over a month.
It is a 24" widescreen S-PVA that goes for around $650.
This may be near the bottom price point as far as acceptable monitors.
Photographer
lll
Posts: 12295
Seattle, Washington, US
Smedley Whiplash wrote:
Even so, I'm using a Samsung 2253Lw that I got at Costco for $300ish, and as far as I'm concerned, it rocks. This is science, so Kevin and I really can't argue with personal experience. Until you have compared (and measured, which I have) the color output of the various panel types, and use critical images (with severe gradient, especially in the blue/purple hues), you may not appreciate the difference between the panels. The banding can be very obvious in some cases. Try a blue gradient.
But I would personally advise against using TN panels for critical photo work.
Other more fundamental questions can be answered by reviewing the FAQ on top of this forum. Kevin, myself and quite a few others have written extensively about monitors and it's all in there.
Photographer
Kent Johnson Photograph
Posts: 1713
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
I am now using a Samsung 22" widescreen T220R based on Leo's recommendation. Took a while to calibrate as I needed to back the factory settings right off to get it right.
This is the best monitor I have worked with, I am seeing details and graduations I could not see before. Very reasonably priced and as far as I can tell. It ROCKS!
Thanks Leo :~))
Photographer
Brian Kim
Posts: 508
Honolulu, Hawaii, US
Personal favorite monitor for editing is the Sony Trinitron 20" crt made for Dell in the mid to late 90's
Photographer
CameraSight
Posts: 1126
Roselle Park, New Jersey, US
Smedley Whiplash wrote:
Kevin_Connery wrote:
Current TN film-based panels only support 6-bits per color (64 shades/color). That requires dithering to get 8-bits (256 shades/channel). That in turn makes then harder to calibrate as well as harder to trust.
See the tftcentral site to check on the panel type. Even so, I'm using a Samsung 2253Lw that I got at Costco for $300ish, and as far as I'm concerned, it rocks.
I've been using an antiquated version of Monaco to match color, though I have to use it in combination with the monitor's own controls to get a close match. Note, I said close. The thing is, it's as close or better then any CRT I've ever used (though I've never used Lacie or Eizo).
As far as trust issues, the only complaint I have is judging contrast. When my stuff gets printed offset, it's been dead on. At pro labs (H&H) it's also dead on (matches monitor). At Costco, its about 85% on. (I can't seem to totally nail their system down) I don't use inkjet much, but it's fairly close on a good printer with a matched paper (calibrated set up)
So in essence, I can totally work off an inexpensive Samsung for the printing sources that I use. Thanks .Thats what I was looking at ... model 2253 . Will also look at the model t220
Photographer
B R E E D L O V E
Posts: 8022
Forks, Washington, US
lll wrote:
Oh? I see a few other vendors are still selling them, though probably not at Lenovo themselves. I just checked Google shopping, and saw a few (from good vendors with good resellerrating ranking). Hope this helps Terry. Sure does I will shop around.
Photographer
lll
Posts: 12295
Seattle, Washington, US
Kent Johnson Photograph wrote:
I am now using a Samsung 22" widescreen T220R based on Leo's recommendation. Took a while to calibrate as I needed to back the factory settings right off to get it right.
This is the best monitor I have worked with, I am seeing details and graduations I could not see before. Very reasonably priced and as far as I can tell. It ROCKS!
Thanks Leo :~)) Hold on. The T220R?
Samsung T-series...T as a SUFFIX, not a prefix! Oops! 245T -> S-PVA, T220 has a TN panel...did you grab the right one?
Well, at least it's working out for ya...!!!
Photographer
lll
Posts: 12295
Seattle, Washington, US
CameraSight wrote:
Thanks .Thats what I was looking at ... model 2253 . Will also look at the model t220 Hold on!!! Not the 2253, not the T220...both are TN panels.
The 245T is the one to get...
Photographer
Frozen Instant Imagery
Posts: 4153
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Yes, the majority of LCD monitors are made to appeal to the masses, who don't need or care about colour accuracy (and I include Apple monitors in that group). That's why Eizo have so many ranges of monitors - different ranges for different needs.
For us, the range is the CG series. These are made specifically for colour precision, with calibration in hardware, uniform backlighting (that's what DUE is all about), and hand-selected panels.
I am currently using a CG 301W, and it's a pleasure to work on. It doesn't do 100% of Adobe gamut, but it is 30" and 2560x1600, which makes editing large images at 100% scale easier.
Have used two CG 210 in the past. Beautiful panels, but only 1600x1200.
Not cheap, but worth what they cost (My Eizo 30" cost twice the price of an Apple 30"). I won't use a CRT again.
Photographer
Jason Haven
Posts: 38381
Washington, District of Columbia, US
Brian Kim wrote:
Personal favorite monitor for editing is the Sony Trinitron 20" crt made for Dell in the mid to late 90's That's what I'm using still... but CRT's are not forever, and we'll have to change over soon. 
Photographer
WIP
Posts: 15973
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom
97% of the Adobe RGB color space so it can display most colors in a photograph taken in Adobe RGB mode and CMYK color spaces used for printing. Furthermore, it has an sRGB mode to accurately reproduce this narrower but commonly used color space.
That's why I like Eizo.
Photographer
Jason Haven
Posts: 38381
Washington, District of Columbia, US
Don't Eizo and Apple both use LG S-IPS panels though?
Photographer
WIP
Posts: 15973
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom
Eizo 5 year guarantee.
Apple 1 year guarantee.
Must be a difference somewhere.
Just Google Apple monitor problems against Eizo monitor problems. Eizo seem to be doing something right.
Photographer
The Zone
Posts: 1132
London, England, United Kingdom
CRT for critical color and color correction in my video projects. I have one project at a large network here in Canada with a probably slot now available, the only thing left is the evaluation and color was the only problem (with one issue of overexposure) with our last show. I don't trust anything else.....
BTW, this only applies to video, the photography and such are really not my forte.....
Photographer
WMcK
Posts: 5298
Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
Kevin_Connery wrote:
Current TN film-based panels only support 6-bits per color (64 shades/color). That requires dithering to get 8-bits (256 shades/channel). That in turn makes then harder to calibrate as well as harder to trust.
See the tftcentral site to check on the panel type. Also, every TN monitor I have come across seems to have a CT of 9300K, far too blue for photographic work. Trying to calibrate this with only six bits per colour gives you severe posterisation.
Photographer
CameraSight
Posts: 1126
Roselle Park, New Jersey, US
WMcK wrote:
Also, every TN monitor I have come across seems to have a CT of 9300K, far too blue for photographic work. Trying to calibrate this with only six bits per colour gives you severe posterisation. Well, I'm learning a lot from this thread
I've also looked at
http://www.digital-cameras-help.com/pho … hotography
I guess I won't being able to get a "Decent " Photo LCD moniter for less than US $500.
So ,I might have to use dual monitors with a KVM ; Use my 8-10 year old Samsung SyncMaster 753DF flat screen CRT monitor for serious photo work and buy a mass market 22 inch LCD monitor for general work .
Photographer
lll
Posts: 12295
Seattle, Washington, US
CameraSight wrote:
I guess I won't being able to get a "Decent " Photo LCD moniter for less than US $500.
So ,I might have to use dual monitors with a KVM ; Use my 8-10 year old Samsung SyncMaster 753DF flat screen CRT monitor for serious photo work and buy a mass market 22 inch LCD monitor for general work . Your 10 year old Samsung is unlikely to have the accuracy or gamut of a new, non-TN type LCD. The most important thing is to have a calibrator, to calibrate your monitor, regardless of type.
People really need to realize that a good monitor is useless without calibration.
Photographer
S_Felix Photo
Posts: 418
Los Angeles, California, US
Retoucher
Kevin_Connery
Posts: 3307
Fullerton, California, US
CameraSight wrote:
I guess I won't being able to get a "Decent " Photo LCD moniter for less than US $500.
So ,I might have to use dual monitors with a KVM ; Use my 8-10 year old Samsung SyncMaster 753DF flat screen CRT monitor for serious photo work and buy a mass market 22 inch LCD monitor for general work . Depends on size.
Dell has some in that price range.
Granted, their larger 'good' displays aren't cheap--$850 for a 27" S-PVA display--but their 20" 2007FP displays use PVA or IPS panels, and go for around $400. That's cheaper than a comparable CRT was when they were still available.
(Sony's Artisan [22" CRT, smaller than the 20" LCD] went for $1600. Mitsubishi's DiamondPro 2070 20" CRT was $800, and it was smaller than a 19" LCD.)
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tftcentral is very informative!
