Posted by Fred Brown: 
But hey, you're both adults, Hm... right? You "both" are, adults... right - lol 

No, because a woman will automatically assume that you're using the "i'm a photographer" ploy just to get her naked or some stupid shit like that. No matter how honorable your intentions may be.

Posted by Monsante Bey: 
As a photographer who has portfolios online (and sometimes advertise them) I feel that i'm held to a certain standard of code and conduct.
Whereas if I am on someplace such as myspace (EXAMPLE ONLY!) I can't flirt or jive around with women because then I would be looked at as the "pervy photog." Or if i'm at a social function and I see a beautiful woman that would be "perfect" for a shoot, i can no longer talk to her about dating because i've already stepped to her about shooting.

So as a photographer, are we as photogs held to a certain standard of conduct no matter what? I would say yes. what are your views on this?

I totaly agree with you on the standard of conduct.  I've found that most models appreciate a photographer with these standards. 

Posted by HadesTT: 
Ask them out first, then no matter what they say about dating you, then ask them if they would like to be photographed on a professional level with no strings attached.

No confusion on either part.  You know upfront what the deal is and then it is her move.  Then be professional  if you shoot her and do not even make a comment out of line.
If she goes out with you then shoot her anyway,  all the better.  I shoot people close to me better usually.

Not bad for your 1st post i agree totally

I have a very high standard of conduct and i stay that way everywhere i am at..
My first pro shoot had a bunch of hired guns from the big city..they where slimers....

I walked away with all the models!!

Posted by Hugh  Jorgen ©: 

Posted by HadesTT: 
Ask them out first, then no matter what they say about dating you, then ask them if they would like to be photographed on a professional level with no strings attached.

No confusion on either part.  You know upfront what the deal is and then it is her move.  Then be professional  if you shoot her and do not even make a comment out of line.
If she goes out with you then shoot her anyway,  all the better.  I shoot people close to me better usually.

Not bad for your 1st post i agree totally

I have a very high standard of conduct and i stay that way everywhere i am at..
My first pro shoot had a bunch of hired guns from the big city..they where slimers....

I walked away with all the models!!

What does that mean? It sounds like you mean a "photo day,"/group shoot/ model-photog clusterfuck kind of deal? If so, that's what you consider a pro shoot?

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
It's as simple as treating people the way you wish to be treated.

In life that can mean different things to different people.  This is one of the reasons for so many disagreements over issues such as this one.

Posted by !MDF: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
It's as simple as treating people the way you wish to be treated.

In life that can mean different things to different people.  This is one of the reasons for so many disagreements over issues such as this one.

I always treat people with the respect and honesty that I'd want to be offered.  If someone has a problem with that, then it's on them. 

Posted by HadesTT: 
Ask them out first, then no matter what they say about dating you, then ask them if they would like to be photographed on a professional level with no strings attached.

No confusion on either part.  You know upfront what the deal is and then it is her move.  Then be professional  if you shoot her and do not even make a comment out of line.
If she goes out with you then shoot her anyway,  all the better.  I shoot people close to me better usually.

She'll never believe you just want to shoot her, no strings attached, if you've already asked her out.  She'll just think you're trying to change her mind.

Posted by D. Brian Nelson: 
As an ugly old guy, it summons up strange visuals to imagine myself hitting on a model.  But if she hits on me that's fine.  There is a power balance during a shoot that shouldn't be taken advantage of, but as in all workplace relationships, there are common sense behaviours:  no use of power to intimidate, no threats of blackmail, no use of force...and sometimes discretion is called for.

-D

wow, one of the best posts yet (at least for enlightening ME on this issue).

1) yes, there is positional power that the photographer has over the model.  just as an employer has over his employee.  it would be wrong to take advantage of that.  now, if she hits on you, that's somewhat different.

2) now I know why it's wrong for me to hit on a model at any time.....I'm that ugly old guy and most of the girls are younger than my daughter....oh yeah, and my girlfriend would kill me!!!!  lol

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by !MDF: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
It's as simple as treating people the way you wish to be treated.

In life that can mean different things to different people.  This is one of the reasons for so many disagreements over issues such as this one.

I always treat people with the respect and honesty that I'd want to be offered.  If someone has a problem with that, then it's on them.   

Really Melvin?  You do?  Okay if you say so.

?????
Could have fooled me.

Posted by Aperture Photographics: 

Posted by D. Brian Nelson: 
As an ugly old guy, it summons up strange visuals to imagine myself hitting on a model.  But if she hits on me that's fine.  There is a power balance during a shoot that shouldn't be taken advantage of, but as in all workplace relationships, there are common sense behaviours:  no use of power to intimidate, no threats of blackmail, no use of force...and sometimes discretion is called for.

-D

wow, one of the best posts yet (at least for enlightening ME on this issue).

1) yes, there is positional power that the photographer has over the model.  just as an employer has over his employee.  it would be wrong to take advantage of that.  now, if she hits on you, that's somewhat different.

2) now I know why it's wrong for me to hit on a model at any time.....I'm that ugly old guy and most of the girls are younger than my daughter....oh yeah, and my girlfriend would kill me!!!!  lol

I agree it was a good post but a photographer is not always the highest on the food chain.  Not on jobs and sometimes not on non-paying shoots either.   I will leave it there for now.

Posted by Fred Brown: 
For the most part I agree. As far as meeting them at a function, I would say you have to make a decision between shooting and dating before before you start the conversation. But hey, you're both adults, Hm... right? You "both" are, adults... right - lol 

Great post as usual Fred.  I agree that you should decide before hand.  I must admit when I was just starting I would ask a girl to shoot when I mainly just wanted to date her. 

I do not make that mistake now,  as I have stated before,  almost to a fault I do so.  Separation and timing is important.  The timing and separation can be used if there is a question of professionalism.  But then that word means different things to different people.

Posted by Jack D Trute: 
Be a dog.

Rufff 

Posted by marksora: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by !MDF: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
It's as simple as treating people the way you wish to be treated.

In life that can mean different things to different people.  This is one of the reasons for so many disagreements over issues such as this one.

I always treat people with the respect and honesty that I'd want to be offered.  If someone has a problem with that, then it's on them.   

Really Melvin?  You do?  Okay if you say so.

?????
Could have fooled me.

Consider yourself fooled then.

Posted by Monsante Bey: 
So as a photographer, are we as photogs held to a certain standard of conduct no matter what? I would say yes. what are your views on this?

If people don't set standards for themselves, then they might as well throw away all the trappings of peoplekind, quit chasing the mighty dollar and move back to the wilds of Africa, or to some jungle in the Pacific where they can swing from trees and fling feces all day long.

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by marksora: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by !MDF: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
It's as simple as treating people the way you wish to be treated.

In life that can mean different things to different people.  This is one of the reasons for so many disagreements over issues such as this one.

I always treat people with the respect and honesty that I'd want to be offered.  If someone has a problem with that, then it's on them.   

Really Melvin?  You do?  Okay if you say so.

?????
Could have fooled me.

Consider yourself fooled then.

Reminds me of the Steve Martin quote.
"All they printed were lies and made up facts,  I was appalled for I am so innocent.  They should have told not to tell them lies and made up facts."

Posted by marksora: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by marksora: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by !MDF: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
It's as simple as treating people the way you wish to be treated.

In life that can mean different things to different people.  This is one of the reasons for so many disagreements over issues such as this one.

I always treat people with the respect and honesty that I'd want to be offered.  If someone has a problem with that, then it's on them.   

Really Melvin?  You do?  Okay if you say so.

?????
Could have fooled me.

Consider yourself fooled then.

Reminds me of the Steve Martin quote.
"All they printed were lies and made up facts,  I was appalled for I am so innocent.  They should have told not to tell them lies and made up facts."

?

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by marksora: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by marksora: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by !MDF: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
It's as simple as treating people the way you wish to be treated.

In life that can mean different things to different people.  This is one of the reasons for so many disagreements over issues such as this one.

I always treat people with the respect and honesty that I'd want to be offered.  If someone has a problem with that, then it's on them.   

Really Melvin?  You do?  Okay if you say so.

?????
Could have fooled me.

Consider yourself fooled then.

Reminds me of the Steve Martin quote.
"All they printed were lies and made up facts,  I was appalled for I am so innocent.  They should have told not to tell them lies and made up facts."

?

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
The point is, everyone complains about their work being "stolen," when they steal from artists [who work just as hard] everytime they download a song, tape a movie or burn a cd.  There's no difference.  Who provides the instructins is immaterial.  If you stole it, you stole it.

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr:
In the meantime, I believe you owe some money to ASCAP, BMI and Chappel Music for all the songs you've stolen from decent hardworking musicians, songwriters and producers. You lousy theif, you!

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
I always try to conduct myself with the utmost profesionalism online. You simply never know who may be watching or reading you. I've mentioned this before, but I made the decision not to work with a certain well known [web] model based on her online journal. While there are people i consider close friends on the web, I still conduct myself in a decent and respectful manner when I communicate with them. It's as simple as treating people the way you wish to be treated.

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr:  I always treat people with the respect and honesty that I'd want to be offered. If someone has a problem with that, then it's on them.

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr:
On behalf of all the musicians we all steal songs from: Get over yourself. In the digital age, everyone is a theif. Everyone. Myself included: As I write this, I'm listening to music I didn't pay anyone for...Took it out of the public library for free and ripped it right onto my drive.

Melbin,
Funny, you call me a thief when I am not one.  I do not download music free from the web,  I do not copy images from others,  I do not copy cd's,  but yet you seem to know me so well. 
No wonder you think time is of no value.  No wonder you give your work away for free.  That is fine, if you wish to do so but do not act all innocent and pure when you, and not I are doing those things that you find problematic.

Melbin,
Funny, you call me a thief when I am not one.  I do not download music free from the web,  I do not copy images from others,  I do not copy cd's,  but yet you seem to know me so well. 
No wonder you think time is of no value.  No wonder you give your work away for free.  That is fine, if you wish to do so but do not act all innocent and pure when you, and not I are doing those things that you find problematic.

Why do you even care what I think?  If you can't let go of a two-week-old debate, you must be feeling guilty about SOMETHING.

Posted by marksora: 


I know I can be an ass.   

Well you were finally right about something.