Model
SaraElisabeth
Posts: 75
New York, New York, US
I used to have one I used when I was modeling before college that a photographer helped me work up, but that was years ago, I think we used film.
What sort of things should be in a release now, what do you have in yours?
I'm typing one up and figure everyone could benefit from this thread.
Photographer
NightBreed
Posts: 36
New Port Richey, Florida, US
Yes.. If you wouldn't mind... Could you allow me a copy as well? I am new to ALL of this and a Model Release from an actual Atty would certainly help to cover my butt.
Thanx so much.
Photographer
Creative Photos -Dallas
Posts: 15
Dallas, Texas, US
Now this is kind of different approach, the model having the model release. Typically, the photographer has the model release. Now I understand that sometimes models have certain stipulations that they may want to have in the rights as to how the photos will be used and certain rights that they may want. But the photographer will typically retain creative copyrights. Please help me in trying to understand the rights the model may want to retain? Or is it permissions in how the photos will be used and / or treated by the photographer in who they may be submitted to? This would seem to be an interesting topic.
Model
A BRITT PRO-AM
Posts: 7840
CARDIFF BY THE SEA, California, US
I have only had one photographer in UK misunderstand this but although the laws vary - MY release covers ME as to how my images / my likenesss are used.
It has him/her agree that changes and and copy added require my agreement and unless I do agree images taken of me (naked) cannot be used 'dishonesty' or to 'degrade' me as a person
These are ideas that would then be argued in court as neccessary( IF I WERE part of a huge billboard campaign or magazine distribution that I was not happy about for example)
It is important to me as I have done a lot of nude work and of course NOT every single shot is good or shows the expression or part of body intended for use
lol
I also request shared use of images and sales rights to images from the photographer - but whether or not any photographers amend this part of my release the OWNERSHIP and the copyrights are not the same thing?
Copyright remains with the photgrapher but my release allows me to use the images as i wish
When an agency or big deal is involved I have used their release as they are inflexible and want uniformity which is ok with me.
Otherwise, I am so happy that the guys trust me and even let me make changes to the work with no issues...
ps
I only have ever had one that didnt really want me to have the full resoloution if all images and wanted to keep 'quality control' and he's the one Im having a thing with!
go figure
B-)
Model
Shayuma
Posts: 358
Cincinnati, Ohio, US
Posted by Larisa Burdeynaya:
ill send u a copy when my lawyer gives it to me...np Larisa, can I have a copy too?! I'm online looking up this subject alot, but I only seem to find the ones that favor the photographer. I'd appreciate it.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Posted by Edward Gillet:
Now this is kind of different approach, the model having the model release. Typically, the photographer has the model release. i use my release only..
an agreement might be a differnet story..so many images in so much time..but not a model release...
Model
Delilah - Sixthessence
Posts: 24
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
My photo session agreement covers: [all-in-one] TFCD TFP SALE So: 1. TFCD This is the main body of the agreement. It states what the images are to be used and to be NOT used for [ie, in conjunction with a nude or adult related material or sites], plus some other tfp/cd related things. Note: I ask the photographer to give me all of the images and media [depictions] in original size/state. [because it's my face and/or my body on; I think it's right.] Photographers usually don't bother hence I'm used to work well and not spread images but, by any chance, in the agreement it's stated that the copyright © notice remains intact, or is otherwise attached or stated with the image. 2. TFP: Just states prints sizes and number 3. Sales: In case of sale from tfcd by both parts, the incomings are shared. When this document is attached to the agreement, this means both the model and the photographer can sell the images [previously chosen and approved by both parts!] and share the incomings. Otherwise, The images should be used for self-promotion purposes only. Copyrights belong to the photographer. I will probably upload a .pdf [english] version of the agreement I'm currently using in my website as soon as I get some spare time to do so. Hope I was helpful  Delilah
Model
Delilah - Sixthessence
Posts: 24
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Posted by Edward Gillet:
lease help me in trying to understand the rights the model may want to retain? Or is it permissions in how the photos will be used and / or treated by the photographer in who they may be submitted to? Both I'd say.
Usually, copyrights belong to the photographer. In case of cooperation [and this *must* be stated case per case, not that now it's a rule] copyrights may be shared.
Cooperation as in, artistic cooperation. Example: photographer takes a photo, model [I'm a photographer + graphician myself so that's my case] works on the photo. If the photo is approved by both parts, I assume copyrights should be shared. This is a delicate thing tho, worth to be discussed any further.
Secondly, how the images will be used: sure. I assume this is an important part of the agreement, correct me if I'm wrong.
I ended up having my own 'photo session release' because:
1. some photographers didn't have one [and some didn't want to sign ANYTHING o.O]
2. some photographers thought that tfcd meant 'hiring for free' and this isn't really what I mean with tfcd
3. many agreements were incomplete, badly structured, and such stuff.
So the question now is: what if I have a tfcd session and I didn't sign any agreement, nor the photographer did? What consequences may follow?
Hope I'm not getting off topic, but I'd really like to know that.
Thanks
Delilah
Photographer
CreativeSandBoxStudio
Posts: 1984
London, England, United Kingdom
Bottomline...most standard release state a relase usgae of the image. but remember if it's for a publication or ad usage make sure it states that and remember time usage of the image being used. There are so many things to take into count beyond just the average ideas you might thing. So ask every question under the sun before you sign your name
Photographer
Rich Mohr
Posts: 1843
Chicago, Illinois, US
So the question now is: what if I have a tfcd session and I didn't sign any agreement, nor the photographer did? What consequences may follow? Hope I'm not getting off topic, but I'd really like to know that. Thanks Delilah With the above situation, I would not feel right using the images at all because no agreement was reached apparently. This has only happened to me once and the "model" turned out to only be someone who wanted pretty pictures. Oh well!
As for the model release, I think it's a great idea! In my opinion, this makes me think that the model really has their head in the right place. The model knows what she wants and isn't afraid to put it in writing. Too many models out there just like the idea of modeling, but either do not know or possibly care how to become a model. The model release tells me this model is professional, and professionals get the job done!
Rich
Model
Shayuma
Posts: 358
Cincinnati, Ohio, US
Posted by sixthessence:
Posted by Edward Gillet:
lease help me in trying to understand the rights the model may want to retain? Or is it permissions in how the photos will be used and / or treated by the photographer in who they may be submitted to? Both I'd say.
Usually, copyrights belong to the photographer. In case of cooperation [and this *must* be stated case per case, not that now it's a rule] copyrights may be shared.
Cooperation as in, artistic cooperation. Example: photographer takes a photo, model [I'm a photographer + graphician myself so that's my case] works on the photo. If the photo is approved by both parts, I assume copyrights should be shared. This is a delicate thing tho, worth to be discussed any further.
Secondly, how the images will be used: sure. I assume this is an important part of the agreement, correct me if I'm wrong.
I ended up having my own 'photo session release' because:
1. some photographers didn't have one [and some didn't want to sign ANYTHING o.O]
2. some photographers thought that tfcd meant 'hiring for free' and this isn't really what I mean with tfcd
3. many agreements were incomplete, badly structured, and such stuff.
So the question now is: what if I have a tfcd session and I didn't sign any agreement, nor the photographer did? What consequences may follow?
Hope I'm not getting off topic, but I'd really like to know that.
Thanks
Delilah
Can you please please make sure you post it. And if ya dont mind, send me a copy of it to my email? I would really really appreciate it.
Model
Goddess Erinys
Posts: 323
West Palm Beach, Florida, US
Posted by sixthessence:
Posted by Edward Gillet:
lease help me in trying to understand the rights the model may want to retain? Or is it permissions in how the photos will be used and / or treated by the photographer in who they may be submitted to? Both I'd say.
Usually, copyrights belong to the photographer. In case of cooperation [and this *must* be stated case per case, not that now it's a rule] copyrights may be shared.
Cooperation as in, artistic cooperation. Example: photographer takes a photo, model [I'm a photographer + graphician myself so that's my case] works on the photo. If the photo is approved by both parts, I assume copyrights should be shared. This is a delicate thing tho, worth to be discussed any further.
Secondly, how the images will be used: sure. I assume this is an important part of the agreement, correct me if I'm wrong.
I ended up having my own 'photo session release' because:
1. some photographers didn't have one [and some didn't want to sign ANYTHING o.O]
2. some photographers thought that tfcd meant 'hiring for free' and this isn't really what I mean with tfcd
3. many agreements were incomplete, badly structured, and such stuff.
So the question now is: what if I have a tfcd session and I didn't sign any agreement, nor the photographer did? What consequences may follow?
Hope I'm not getting off topic, but I'd really like to know that.
Thanks
Delilah
Exactly.
Photographer
Moraxian
Posts: 2607
Germantown, Maryland, US
My release indicates the following:
1) The models real name and stage name
2) Who owns the images (If money changes hands, the owner is the person spending the money. TFP images are shared ownership)
3) Distribution rights (same rules as in item 2)
4) Image Copyright (That's mine as the photographer)
5) Image Credit (Shared no matter where money goes, if any. I have in writing that I can't say the person in a photo is someone else...credit is given by stage name only).
6) Any distribution rights the model may have if I'm paying for the photos.
Plus at the end, we all sign the document (and with the new rules, models need to give me any other stage names they may have...)
Hope this helps.
Model
Madame Cosmos
Posts: 173
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Once I started hiring people for my own projects, I made sure they signed & did a thumb print.
i had an incident where a girl tried to say I forged her & her mothers signature, & she forgot entirely that I had her thumb print hah.
needless to say nothing ever happened.
Just a thought..
Model
12082
Posts: 1292
Los Angeles, California, US
I'd like a copy too... [email protected] This has been an insightful discussion! Thanks everyone
Photographer
Leona
Posts: 54
San Francisco, California, US
By Moraxian
My release indicates the following:
1) The models real name and stage name
2) Who owns the images (If money changes hands, the owner is the person spending the money. TFP images are shared ownership)
3) Distribution rights (same rules as in item 2)
4) Image Copyright (That's mine as the photographer)
So my question is if the model pays you and she/he now owns the images, does she/he now have copyright? I thought copyright and ownership were the same thing.
I really need to revamp my release, it is all so utterly confusing!
Leona
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21320
Seattle, Washington, US
Posted by Leona:
So my question is if the model pays you and she/he now owns the images, does she/he now have copyright? I thought copyright and ownership were the same thing.
Leona cf. "Work for Hire"
There are TONS of books that cover this all in detail.
Model
theda
Posts: 21719
New York, New York, US
I have releases on file.
The release should stipulate how the model agrees to have image used. The model's compensation should be defined. The photographer and his/her assigns should be held harmless if the image is used in accord with the terms provided.
I also have documents stipulating model usage rights.
Photographer
Sanders McNew
Posts: 1284
New York, New York, US
Posted by Moraxian:
My release indicates the following:
1) The models real name and stage name
2) Who owns the images (If money changes hands, the owner is the person spending the money. TFP images are shared ownership)
3) Distribution rights (same rules as in item 2)
4) Image Copyright (That's mine as the photographer)
5) Image Credit (Shared no matter where money goes, if any. I have in writing that I can't say the person in a photo is someone else...credit is given by stage name only).
6) Any distribution rights the model may have if I'm paying for the photos.
Plus at the end, we all sign the document (and with the new rules, models need to give me any other stage names they may have...)
Hope this helps. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. :-P
I am an attorney, and I am fairly well-acquainted with copyright issues. There is no distinction, as you suggest, between ownership and copyright interests. Usually, the creator of the image is the copyright holder -- the owner. The exception, as another poster noted, is if you create the images for hire; in that case the person who paid for your services holds the copyright in the images.
It is not true to suggest, as you do, that the copyright is shared for TFP work. Copyright in all cases resides in the creator unless it is work for hire. There is no rule that says models share the copyright when no money passes hands. Models sometimes insist on shared copyright in the work I do. I refuse. I will not share copyright, ever, and I would prefer not to shoot at all, rather than shoot on those terms.
This is a more complicated subject than I have suggested here. Copyrights can be assigned, and you can license the use of copyrighted materials, just like the owner of a house can rent it. If you sell a print, the buyer owns the piece of paper but you retain the copyright -- you remain the owner of the image.
As another poster noted, there are lots of books written on this topic. Unfortunately, the reliable ones are written in language that is obscure to a nonlawyer.
Sanders McNew
www.mcnew.net
Photographer
piers
Posts: 117
London, Arkansas, US
Posted by Sanders McNew:
The exception, as another poster noted, is if you create the images for hire; in that case the person who paid for your services holds the copyright in the images.
Just to clarify that though, simply being paid or commissioned doesn't make it 'work for hire'.
Body Painter
Eric Mayhem
Posts: 481
Seattle, Washington, US
I read a story about a photographer who got mad at his model and posted her address on the internet. So, my release says:
"Both model and photographer agree that personal information including Name, Address, and Phone number is confidential and may not be disclosed except in case of legal action."
I don't know if it would hold up in court or not, but it's worth a try.
Eric
Photographer
Moraxian
Posts: 2607
Germantown, Maryland, US
Posted by Sanders McNew:
Posted by Moraxian:
My release indicates the following:
1) The models real name and stage name
2) Who owns the images (If money changes hands, the owner is the person spending the money. TFP images are shared ownership)
3) Distribution rights (same rules as in item 2)
4) Image Copyright (That's mine as the photographer)
5) Image Credit (Shared no matter where money goes, if any. I have in writing that I can't say the person in a photo is someone else...credit is given by stage name only).
6) Any distribution rights the model may have if I'm paying for the photos.
Plus at the end, we all sign the document (and with the new rules, models need to give me any other stage names they may have...)
Hope this helps. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. :-P
I am an attorney, and I am fairly well-acquainted with copyright issues. There is no distinction, as you suggest, between ownership and copyright interests. Usually, the creator of the image is the copyright holder -- the owner. The exception, as another poster noted, is if you create the images for hire; in that case the person who paid for your services holds the copyright in the images.
It is not true to suggest, as you do, that the copyright is shared for TFP work. Copyright in all cases resides in the creator unless it is work for hire. There is no rule that says models share the copyright when no money passes hands. Models sometimes insist on shared copyright in the work I do. I refuse. I will not share copyright, ever, and I would prefer not to shoot at all, rather than shoot on those terms.
This is a more complicated subject than I have suggested here. Copyrights can be assigned, and you can license the use of copyrighted materials, just like the owner of a house can rent it. If you sell a print, the buyer owns the piece of paper but you retain the copyright -- you remain the owner of the image.
As another poster noted, there are lots of books written on this topic. Unfortunately, the reliable ones are written in language that is obscure to a nonlawyer.
Sanders McNew
www.mcnew.net I keep the copyright in all cases. Of course, considering the nature of the photography I do, I have yet to have a model pay me for photographs. I'm shooting R-rated content for my adult sites primarily... which involves a whole other set of documents not being covered here.
I do occasionally take customer commissions, but even then I insist on keeping the copyright. They get the pictures and, depending on what they are willing to pay, mention of distribution rights. I have three different prices, one for if I get the distribution rights, one if there are equal distribution rights, and one if the customer wants full distribution rights.
Photographer
Moraxian
Posts: 2607
Germantown, Maryland, US
Posted by Leona:
By Moraxian
My release indicates the following:
1) The models real name and stage name
2) Who owns the images (If money changes hands, the owner is the person spending the money. TFP images are shared ownership)
3) Distribution rights (same rules as in item 2)
4) Image Copyright (That's mine as the photographer)
So my question is if the model pays you and she/he now owns the images, does she/he now have copyright? I thought copyright and ownership were the same thing.
I really need to revamp my release, it is all so utterly confusing!
Leona I inssit on keeping the copyright even if the model owns the photos. Ownership means they can do with them what they will, but they still need to list "Copyright (year), Moraxian.us) where they're displayed. I'm not too fussy about how it's displayed, just that it be there.
Even then, it's kind of a moot point, as I have yet to have a model pay me to photo them. I'm a content producer for my websites primarily, and I am usually the one paying out the $$.
Photographer
SML photography
Posts: 66
San Diego, California, US
unless the model is paying the photographer, it's not likely that the model will ever have full rights to the images. back in the day of film, the rule of the courts is whoever buys the film owes the film, exposed or not. And as such the photographer alwasy supplies the film. Even a wedding photographer, that is getting paid to do the wedding owns the photos unless it is agreed in writing that the negatives (digital file) rights will be transferred to the reciepiant paying for the service. I have a expections clause in my release, that if a model doesn't want nude images published or should the images be sold she would be compensated pretty much anything that needs to be written in. Mind you this is for TFP shoots. if i am paying a model to work, the images are 100% mine, and that's non-negotiable. So if you want the rights i advice you to pay a photographer and have him agree to give you the rights. The courts will consider that fair consideration. good luck cheers scott www.smlphotography.com (should you want to read my release just go to the modeling information page)
Photographer
piers
Posts: 117
London, Arkansas, US
Posted by SML photography:
unless the model is paying the photographer, it's not likely that the model will ever have full rights to the images. Probably better to say that even if you do pay the photographer, the model will NEVER have full rights.
If you pay a photographer you are paying for the particular bit of usage that is agreed plus production costs. Typically when a model pays for a shoot it is heavily discounted so the usage is limited to portfolio / compcard use only.
No reproduction without specific permission, no publication, no syndication, no print sales - all of that is referred back to the photographer.
If the model wants a licence to sell images or distribute them as PR handouts that would cost (usally a lot) extra.
Model
theda
Posts: 21719
New York, New York, US
Posted by piers:
Probably better to say that even if you do pay the photographer, the model will NEVER have full rights.
Never say never.
Full rights can be sold and/or assigned. TAhey rarely are it's even more rare that they are sold or assigned to the model, but it's possible.
Model
BeautyDestroyed
Posts: 33
Seattle, Washington, US
I personally have an addendum that any photographer I work with must sign, agreeing that any points that conflict with their standard model release are rendered void and overruled by my subcontract.
Essentially it just states that I have full co-rights to use, resell, publish or edit the images resulting from the shoot, that the photographer is not allowed to reference me as anything but my stage name, that my real name and personal information given tot hem is confidential, and that my images may not be used to harass or belittle me. Also, there's a clause stating that the images may not be sold to certain parties who I am adamantly against having any rights tomy images.
So far it's been fine, as it's all pretty much common sense stuff and has no impact on most photographers. But I've dealt with enough scumbags to be cautious.
Photographer
Sanders McNew
Posts: 1284
New York, New York, US
Posted by BeautyDestroyed:
I personally have an addendum that any photographer I work with must sign, agreeing that any points that conflict with their standard model release are rendered void and overruled by my subcontract.
Essentially it just states that I have full co-rights to use, resell, publish or edit the images resulting from the shoot, that the photographer is not allowed to reference me as anything but my stage name, that my real name and personal information given tot hem is confidential, and that my images may not be used to harass or belittle me. Also, there's a clause stating that the images may not be sold to certain parties who I am adamantly against having any rights tomy images.
So far it's been fine, as it's all pretty much common sense stuff and has no impact on most photographers. But I've dealt with enough scumbags to be cautious. I would never agree to work with someone who insisted on "full co-rights," as you put it. The copyright is mine. I do not allow others to alter my work. You of course are free to choose to work only with photographers who will share the copyright. But surely you do not consider those of us who will not do so "scumbags." Do you?
Sanders McNew
www.mcnew.net
Photographer
Harry Young
Posts: 744
Los Angeles, California, US
Photographer
piers
Posts: 117
London, Arkansas, US
Posted by BeautyDestroyed:
I personally have an addendum that any photographer I work with must sign, agreeing that any points that conflict with their standard model release are rendered void and overruled by my subcontract. I'd love to know if a blanket "my terms apply, yours don't" type of clause would actually hold up in court, My understanding of contract law is that you are working under whatever the last agreement is, If one party makes an amendment and notifies the other you have to either activly counter it or you are deemed to have accepted it. In the situation you describe, I would have thought you were better off amending one contract to suit both of you, rather than trying to use two with potential conficts.
Posted by BeautyDestroyed:
Essentially it just states that I have full co-rights to use, resell, publish or edit the images resulting from the shoot,
As Sanders said above, this is an absolute deal breaker. Refusal to accept it would be as much an indication that the photographer is completely above board and reputable as anything you are trying to avoid. Yes, you can make whatever demands you like, but doing things this way you are actually limiting the quality of photographer you can work with (baby and bathwater effect).
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