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New and Beginner Models with Rates ? ? ? Duhhhhh
Lately . . . I've noticed a new breed of Models. The Self Appointed Professional . . . The young lady who always wanted to be a model or has been in a couple of High School or Low Budget Fashion Shows . . . She shoots with 1 or 2 Photographers who have skills! Or better than that . . . A Dude With a Digital - LOL ! She post her pictures on a Site . . .Gets a Little Attention . . . And the Next thing you Know! ! ! SHE GOT RATES . . . . . AND MAYBE A MANAGER "omg" Can someone Please Help Me Understand This ? ? ? This is a real issue . . . Do anybody watch America's Top Model ? Hello ? ? ? PS- What Happened to the Process ? ? ? Everybody wants to be the chosen one. Without doing the work ! WSUP ? Feb 11 06 08:20 pm Link My opinion is that new models should not have rates, until they can honestly say that the photographer is NOT doing them a favor of shooting them and that they, the model, is doing the photographer a service by shooting with them. edit: after reading through the rest of this thread, it is my opinion that I no longer have an opinion about when models should charge There are just too many angles to consideer. Feb 11 06 08:23 pm Link Angel Tara wrote: I think we all should have rates, models and photographers. Although they should depend on the level of experience.Think of it as if you are a kid and are about to go get your first job. Chances are your first will be a minimum wage job. If you are lucky, someone will believe in you a bit more and offer you more. If not, chances are, the more job experience you get, the more you make along the way. Feb 11 06 08:26 pm Link DJ wrote: You don`t consider that show reality, do you? Feb 11 06 08:27 pm Link Angel Tara wrote: Agree. Feb 11 06 08:30 pm Link Glamour Boulevard wrote: whoa... Feb 11 06 08:34 pm Link "Experience" is a 'net concept of model worth. Clients hire the look, unless they are hiring for a specific talent. Photographers not shooting for a "specific client look" seem to equate worth based on the number of shoots a model has under the belt. I suspect the correlation has to do with how much direction is needed and the ability to bring creative ideas to the table. Feb 11 06 08:35 pm Link E L Fanucchi wrote: very true... Feb 11 06 08:36 pm Link Who cares? I know the O.P. is merely... bemused... but I've seen people get pretty worked up about this before, so I just wanted to throw down my 2 cents (which I'm going to start demanding 3.5 cents for when I sign with my new agent). Every day, in every city town and village in the world, there are people confidently demanding something they haven't earned, and don't deserve. Sometimes they even get it. But not from me. I'm more likely to hand a fiver to a homeless drunk than $45/hr to some apprentice pouty poser. Unless I can photograph her cleaning my apartment and doing my laundry... (she still has to do her own makeup, though) Feb 11 06 08:38 pm Link I have always found that amusing. The fact that someone just entering the modeling world thinks they can ask for rates. I don't mind paying an experienced model rates. With their experience, the working relationship and the finished product is all that much better. Paying an inexperienced model rates is just like throwing money out the window. I have been fortunate that most of the beginning models I have worked with have asked for prints or contact sheet. Feb 11 06 08:41 pm Link If the model charges those rates and manages to get them, more power to them! It always amuses me to see people knocking others who feel they are worth something and post to let others know their rate. If they are NOT worth what they are asking, don't worry...they won't find any work and reality will begin to sink in. No one is forcing YOU to hire them at those rates. Concentrate on YOUR own worth...and work on building that. BTW, you do not need to be a model or photographer for however long some of you seem to equate with being a "professional" so that you can start charging. In the case of models...if your "looks" are great and people are willing to pay the rates you ask (even if you have NO EXPERIENCE)...more power to you! Charge the maximum that you can to obtain the maximum amount of work that you are willing to do at that rate! (Man...wish I had paid a bit more attention in statistics/economics class...as that math would have been useful just now...lol). The same applies to photographers who produce great work. You are worth whatever people are willing to pay you at any given time. Period. I've known some "models" and some "photographers" who have been at it "forever" and still produce mediocre work. Regards, Denoy Feb 11 06 08:45 pm Link easyonthe eyes wrote: LMAO! Feb 11 06 08:54 pm Link If a new model is attractive enough to get paid, more power to her. Despite rhetoric to the contrary, modeling isn't exactly a talent contest and she's certainly not a charity. This is a free market and a model is free to set her rates that will get her the amount of work she wants, not satisfy some arbitrary rules established by an opinion poll. A complete bimbo can still deliver her looks to a shoot. Photographers are free not to work with her. The same applies to photographers, but photography is more skill intensive. You're free to buy a camera and start charging for paid shoots the same day, but if you don't deliver anything for the money you're paid, you won't get much business. I have nothing good to say about "model managers". Usually, they are nothing but skirt chasing weekend amateurs whose only interest is using photography as a way to hang out with pretty girls. In the world of internet modeling, they are most often worse than useless, scaring away potential work. My humble opinion, of course. -Dave EDIT: Disclaimer: I'm referring to internet models and photographers in case it's not obvious. Feb 11 06 09:15 pm Link pro·fes·sion·al That said, one of the main reasons the quality of many things decline is that so many claim a title without earning it. Having photos makes someone a model as much as having a camera makes someone a photographer. You train to become a professional and take the needed steps to get to that point. Feb 11 06 09:21 pm Link DJ wrote: Since I shoot to add images to my stock file, I have no problem paying new models, if I can see some good snapshots, plus get honest stats. I prefer that she not have worked with a lot of other photographers, but just show up on time. I think that the freshness in new models is worth as much as a lot of experence. Feb 11 06 09:39 pm Link The more I see this, the less it irritates me and the more it amuses me. I totally think people -both models and their photographer counterparts- should charge whatever the heck they want. Seriously. People should be welcome to come up with their rate no matter how unreasonable or unfounded. Why? If -when the planets align, the moon goes blue, hell freezes over and pigs fly out of someone's ass- they stumble upon some poor sap willing to pay their outlandish rate, then fine. Otherwise they'll price themselves out of existence and will quickly be out of everyone's hair... Feb 11 06 09:40 pm Link I have already posted about this one in other places but ... the situation that just annoys me on one level and makes me laugh on another level is when a model with absolutely no experience and/or credits has the proverbial "$8,000 minimum and I DON'T SHOOT NUDES (unless, of course you are paying $10,000) and I will have 87 bodyguards from Joey The Internet Manager Dymes who will kick your ass if you even breathe in the same airspace as my b(o)(o)bies and please remember that I am an AR-TEEST!" Next. < insert silly grin > Feb 11 06 11:10 pm Link area291 wrote: We have to stop agreeing like this. This is almost as scary as when I agree with Theda! Feb 12 06 12:51 am Link I suppose I still qualify as 'new' since I'm 'new' with the look I have post-baby ... BUUUUUT I have rates available for clients who ARE looking to pay. I gladly accept most reasonable TFP that comes my way because I enjoy doing it. However, if someone asks me, "Hey what do you charge" I have the rate sheet available. Granted, I'm pretty f'in reasonable. I charge no more than 50.00/hr and that's for figure work. I see it as, 50/hr for some photos... or 5.15/hr at Mcdonalds... hrm... Those chicks that charge 150/hr for lingerie right out of the gate are CRAZY. Feb 12 06 01:19 am Link I actually posted this in another forum about "models with call girl rates" but I think it fits in well here too, as pertains to new/ beginner models. SO here we go: Every one has his or her own self worth but some of the "models" should be ashamed of themselves There are a quite a few models on here (really) that have like 5 pics in their port, all taken by uncle John, and sometimes a GWC. Then they have a very plain look, and no styling, but yet they have the audacity to have posted on their info section" My rates for Swimsuit are $375, Lingerie $475...etc..." You have got to be kidding me!!! Now I don't if that is to ward of the vultures, or non-professionals..But I think its higly obsurd....Now there are some polished models on here that you look at their port and say hey, she's hot, she's good, she poses well, she has a good look, those are the ones a "client" wouldn't mind paying some higher amounts to. But The ones mentioned in the previous section, simply preposterous... Feb 12 06 01:48 am Link Angel Tara wrote: I agree. I appreciate your wisdom, Angel. Feb 12 06 02:05 am Link area291 wrote: I never care much for all those projects listed on someone's resume. I want that person's look, or I don't care for it. Simple as that. Feb 12 06 02:07 am Link Tony Culture Photoz wrote: Exactly. Feb 12 06 08:40 am Link area291 wrote: The one thing you hear on these forums more han anything is that looks isn't as important as experience, talent, and hard work. It's an idea that refuses to go away. Feb 12 06 09:33 am Link On Friday I shot a newbie model who got paid a rate. It was an editorial. It was her first job. She'd done 2 tests with her agency. Of course, this girl was 5'11", a size 2, perfect porcelain skin, 19 years old, with a very beautiful unique editorial look. Not many have genes like that. There was only one attitude she knew how to project, but it fit the general direction of the editorial. And to make something clear, that rate was paid by the client (the magazine). Feb 12 06 09:37 am Link I will agree with Tony and Area with respect to more established photographers and models. Beyond a certain point in the skill set of both, the number of shoots, tearsheets, etc. is probably somewhat irrelevant from a qualitiy standpoint. My concern with brand new models who make all kinds of demands is that they are usually the ones that "no show," are difficult to work with and present any number of other obstacles to an easy and productive shoot. They are also usually the ones with someone driving them to be that way, which just provides another unproductive complication. On the other hand, there are plenty of very attractive women who are just nice, reasonable people, and a little lost time due to inexperience is not a big deal when working with them - especially when there isn't a very expensive clock ticking. Feb 12 06 09:48 am Link J Merrill Images wrote: Yup! It beggars the question: Which came first the "rates" or the "manager"? Feb 12 06 10:22 am Link All of my photogs shoot digital! Does that make me an amateur? LOL  Feb 12 06 10:30 am Link DJ wrote: Let's see. *EVERYONE* has the right to charge for their time, and trouble. Feb 12 06 10:36 am Link DJ wrote: thank you thank you thank you Feb 12 06 11:18 am Link I think everybody makes way too much of this. These posts seem to be a weekly thing. Net photographers want experienced models, agents (and to a large degree casting directors don't care). Net photographers see a benefit to working with someone who has been in front of the camera,. Casting directors book the look (how is that for a rhyme) and would put a first time model on a national billboard. There are just different perspectives. If you think a model is asking too much, don't shoot her. If you are right, she will eventually lower her rates or decide not to model. If she is right, people will pay her. This issue comes up too often. Feb 12 06 11:31 am Link Rates, I believe, are based on experience and popularity. I've seen models who ask for $5K a day, yet their pictures look like they've been taken with a webcam. If a model sets her rates at a competitive one, he/she will most likely get more jobs than the model who asks for an arm and a leg; however, is not worth the money the photographer is paying. Time is a form of payment; as well as the CD/Tears the model receives. With experience comes knowledge; with knowledge comes better jobs, rates, and clients! No matter what the "rate" is, models should always be open to negotiations. You never know who you'll meet or who will see you! Feb 12 06 11:38 am Link Alan from Aavian Prod wrote: firstly the original poster brings up several points, one of which I never see REALLY intelligently discussed and that is the issue of PROCESS. (Please read his post again...) Feb 12 06 11:44 am Link Alan from Aavian Prod wrote: Not this one. Feb 12 06 11:46 am Link images by elahi wrote: If you raise the issue of "Process," what is the process? In the mainstream the process is that you go to open calls or submit photos to agents in the hope of getting signed. Nowhere in the "process" is there a requirement that you have experience for an agent to consider you. Likewise, if an agent signs you, the level of experience you have will have nothing to do with the rates you get paid. Feb 12 06 12:06 pm Link Dave Krueger wrote: Personally, I couldn't agree with you more. I don't do TFP so none of these discussions really make any difference to me anyhow. I book a model because she has a look I can use. I have done this long enough that I can decide if I can work with someone. Feb 12 06 12:08 pm Link What bugs me is that they don't see the endgame. $400 for a day right now is great, but most photographers (rightly) refuse to pay that and a model is never going to get decent images that catch the eye of jaded agents and art directors who have already seen what most photographers know how to produce. The endgame is getting those people to notice you and you start booking for $1500-3500 a day with one day off a week. You don't get that by extorting money for a little shoulder. Feb 12 06 12:15 pm Link LisaMarie Valencia wrote: Why do you believe that? Read what Alan, Dave and I wrote and you will find those with "experience" don't feel the same way. That isn't to say we are right, but please give attempt to convince otherwise as we may be approaching this wrong. Feb 12 06 12:17 pm Link I disagree with the whole you need no experience argument. yes people are hired on there look but if she just stands there like a dead fish will you really get the shot you need. or if you have to keep telling her to look TWARDS the lights (I still forget upon occasion but I am shot from all angles. ) or the model who shows up to a shoot wearing tight bra and then has bra marks on her body? I see a lot of fashion in magazines that would show bad skin marks if they were there. The other complaint I have heard of is from mua's the models who show up with makeup on. Feb 12 06 12:22 pm Link area291 wrote: Oh yea... Feb 12 06 12:52 pm Link |
