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Flaky Models...warning: long rant
I'll preface this by saying that there are a lot of good models out there and this is in no way directed at them. BUT my point in the following rant is that there are way too many flaky models on here and I'm sure there are lots of bad photographers or GWCs or ego-maniacs on here as well (fortunately I don't have to deal with them). In my opinion, these people have ruined what should be a good site. If you are one of these people (and you know who you are), please get your act together or remove your profile entirely. If you're going to be a flake, please feel free to waste away your own time, but stop wasting the time of professional-acting models and photographers. Anyway, onto my rant. On Friday I had a shoot scheduled with a model in L.A. We'd scheduled the shoot just three days before, but given my experience on other model sites, I wanted to confirm the night before. So I tried to call, but the line was disconnected. I then e-mailed the model on MM, but she never checked the message before the shoot. At this point, I figured there was a decent chance she would flake out on the shoot. But I didn't want to simply not show up, because if she did show then I would be the unprofessional flake. So I drove 1 1/2 hours across L.A. and waited in vain for an hour for her to show. Not too much time wasted, at least...well, not exactly. The drive back took 4 1/2 hours through L.A. rush hour traffic. So that's 7 hours wasted in a rather brief trip that I had scheduled to L.A. This is time I could have spent catching up with old college friends or scheduling a shoot with a much more deserving model. And this all could have been avoided if the model had had the decency to take an entire minute out of her life to call or e-mail to cancel the shoot. The ironic thing is her profile says "I am very professional and reliable." So models, when you flake out on a shoot, it does have real impact on other people. If you've had bad experiences with other photographers, don't take it out on real photographers by acting unprofessionally. You'll only turn off the real photographers and be left with a bunch of GWCs on this site. This is just the third time I've attempted to schedule a shoot through an online modeling site. Each time the model canceled and only one time did they actually call beforehand to inform me they were canceling. I will no longer be wasting my time with models on these sites. Fortunately, I have enough models who contact me for shoots outside of these sites that I don't need to find them on here. These models tend to be much more reliable than the models on here, some of whom apparently get so much attention lavished on them that they have delusions of stardom and no longer need to abide by the rules of decency and common courtesy like the rest of us humans. Again, I know there are plenty of very good, reliable models on here and this is in no way directed at you. In fact, the flakes are bringing down the good names of the real models on here, much as the GWCs bring down the good names of the real photographers. Okay, end of rant... and remember the Golden Rule "DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU." Should this really be so difficult??? Feb 19 06 02:57 pm Link Grant Collier wrote: Let that be a lesson to all shooters considering work in LA. NEVER do crosstown shoots without receiving full payment...or tell the models to come to you. Feb 19 06 03:17 pm Link there should be some type of rating system, where if a model,MUA, Photographer flakes... you can give them strikes... or on the other hand, if it was a great shoot, give credit where credit is due... I'd love to know which models, MUA's, and stylists I should not waste my time contacting. Feb 19 06 03:24 pm Link People who do not model full time cannot be expected to remember when and where they have to be in the same way a professional should. Feb 19 06 03:26 pm Link Ched wrote: Why? Does remembering commitments take up that much time? If people can't be bothered to be considerate of others' time and energy they have no business doing this. "Being too busy" isn't an excuse to pull a no-show; a two-minute phone call is all it takes. I've pretty much stopped contacting people online for this same reason (although I still do email the occasional model or MUA). Feb 19 06 03:32 pm Link You wrote: "I'll preface this by saying that there are a lot of good models out there and this is in no way directed at them. BUT my point in the following rant is that there are way too many flaky models on here and I'm sure there are lots of bad photographers or GWCs or ego-maniacs on here as well (fortunately I don't have to deal with them). In my opinion, these people have ruined what should be a good site. If you are one of these people (and you know who you are), please get your act together or remove your profile entirely. If you're going to be a flake, please feel free to waste away your own time, but stop wasting the time of professional-acting models and photographers" (didn't box it because I want everyone to read it again....u took the words right out of my mouth) Eh eh to that!!!!! It goes both ways though..some models ARE very hard working and get f&*%ed over, some people give us hard working professionals a really bad name! Feb 19 06 03:34 pm Link Ched wrote: Then they had better get rid of any dreams of becoming a consistently paid model! Feb 19 06 03:39 pm Link I vote for the rating system.... Feb 19 06 03:41 pm Link If you make a commitment as a model or photographer, whether or not you are a professional or part time, you have committed to another person. You need to be courteous and decent enough to either keep the commitment or let that person know that you are not going to make it. This is only common decency and respect for others. I use these model sites as a place to contact models for my work and fortunately I have had very little trouble with any of them. There are some that have I run into that really need to move over for the real models. There's really no place for wanna bees. You are either a big girl or you're not. Serious photographers have no time for the wanna bees. Feb 19 06 03:42 pm Link Ched wrote: This has to a be a joke. Feb 19 06 03:58 pm Link Maybe Friday was bad luck. A photographer on this site contacted me last week about shooting on Friday afternoon, and it was all set up (location, theme, time, etc)...and then I asked him if he needed directions and he never e-mailed me back. A few days later, I checked and it said he had read the e-mail. So I waited another day and then I e-mailed and told him that if he didn't get back to me the next day I would assume the shoot was cancelled. The next day, I saw that he had read THAT e-mail as well but never responded. I vote for a rating system. I cleared a bunch of things off of my schedule for that day in order to shoot with this guy and he was a total flake. Gr. Feb 19 06 04:02 pm Link I have had it happen as well. But ranting on here won't change it. Some do this, always have and always will. That is just the way it is. Some of us keep committments, others don't. Simple. It is called Low Impulse Control in Psych. Feb 19 06 04:07 pm Link Rich Meade wrote: Good call - i've thought of that before for on here. Like a feedback system similar to ebay or something. Feb 19 06 04:20 pm Link Feedback is the BEST way to improve this site .... Feb 19 06 04:26 pm Link Frank Rehm wrote: Greetings, Feb 19 06 04:32 pm Link Ched wrote: Just an obversion...Ched wasn't making an excuse for the flakers, but being sarcastic at those who do. Feb 19 06 04:46 pm Link Rich Meade wrote: After having a no show today I am right there with you on the rating system. My no show didn't just cost me time, it also cost me cancellation fees for the MUA and studio. Feb 19 06 04:58 pm Link  Feb 19 06 04:59 pm Link Being professional does not lie with just showing up for a shoot. Please have the common courtesy of replying to emails also. I like to have a meeting before a shoot to get to know a model before we schedule a shoot. But, I have had some models give the times that they can meet as being a bit outrageous. Like, before 9am on weekends and after 7 pm on weekdays. Photographers sometimes have a life other than taking time from their families to meet with a potential model. I can understand if they go to school or have to work, I have had some crappy jobs that had weird hours myself. But If you want to seriously work as a model, you might want to find some flexibility in your schedule. You might miss out on working with a talented photographer because you didnt have the time. I will almost always hire someone that I have worked, over someone I havent, for a paying job. Feb 19 06 06:23 pm Link A rating system would be nice, but I'm not sure it would be feasible. If a photographer justifiably gives a model a low rating, the model will likely retaliate and give the photographer a low rating solely out of spite. Or, if a model simply doesn't want to work with a photographer, the photographer may give the model a low rating out of spite. It would be impossible to know which ratings are legit and which are out of jealousy or spite. And I imagine the owners of MM might be worried about frivilous lawsuits for defamation. I do realize my rant won't do much good, especially since those who don't bother to call or cancel prior a shoot probably don't bother to read the forum posts either. But sometimes it just feels good to rant  . And if a new photographer or model reads this and it emphasizes the importance of acting professionally - regardless of whether you call yourself an amateur or professional - then at least it will have done a little bit of good. And if everyone tries to emphasize the importance of professionalism to others they know, especially those just starting out, then maybe this culture of disrespect and distrust between models and photographers can gradually start to change. And then, after that, I'm sure world peace will be just around the corner... okay, maybe not. But I can at least say that I've never met a truly successful photographer or model who's worked their way to the top by being flaky and unprofessional. Things will eventually get out via word of mouth and people will ultimately get out of the business what they put into it.Feb 19 06 06:24 pm Link I hear you. It's happened to me more times than not. I just started the process of meeting the model in person prior to the shoot and what I'm finding is that models will post photos of when they were in shape or 10yrs younger which is very misleading to the photographer. Also, I've had models not follow up on scheduling a shoot with no reason given or even a reply. I've had models cancel even after we meet but what I saw one photographer do which I love is that he's listed in his profile all the models who have canceled and not rescheduled or were a no show. I think that's great! I had one model who canceled for what he called personal reasons, this after he agreed to do nudity and after I said we'll only do what you are comfortable with. He told me he was going to get out of modeling yet he never deleted his profile yet the day the shoot was to take place he changed his profile to remove the word nudity but kept it posted. Why do models lie? All he had to say was he changed his mind about the nudity. I even told him we could only do the fashion stuff. For whatever reason he wasn't totally honest with me. It's frustrating b/c I take it personal and wonder was it something I said or did or did he find a better photographer. That's fine. Just don't lie. At least he did cancel right? lol Another waste of time is the back and forth calling and emailing only to never schedule a meeting let alone a photoshoot with a model b/c they just stop all communication with you or say they'll reschedule but never do. Photos By Deej! Deej Feb 19 06 06:42 pm Link ARG! - Don't get me started on flaky models!!! Yes, there are a lot of good and dependable models (both professional and amateur) out there and I have had the pleasure of working with many of them, but, percentage-wise they are few and far between when compared to the number of flaky models... I find it so amazing how much bad traffic there is when a model is coming to a shoot and how many flat tires models get, and it is also amazing how many alarm clocks fail to go off... But my biggest pet peeve is the amount of time (and money) I waste waiting on models that fail to show up for an interview or even a paid commercial shoot - It's especially annoying when I have hired a make-up artist, stylist, etc.. The last few commercial shoots that I have done (where we only needed one model), we actually hired two - just in case one didn't show up. Feb 19 06 06:50 pm Link Ps... It is amazing to me how many models show up late or do not even show up at all for a scheduled interview. No calls no nothing... If a model flakes an interview, then it's a pretty fair bet that she'll flake on a shoot as well. I NEVER schedule a shoot with a model (paid or otherwise) unless we have a interview first. Feb 19 06 06:57 pm Link WE know! My favorite is a model that told me she overslept three days in a row! The one who brought her kids along to a glamour shoot! The one who wantd a photo session for her buyfriend for free! and on and on..it gets very creative! Feb 19 06 07:13 pm Link Not to be contrary or anything. But I just had a model I found on MM show up *exactly* on time for a shoot. And when we met for coffee yesterday to discuss concepts, she showed up *exactly* on time. She's not even all that experienced yet. For that matter, I've only had two no-shows in the past eight years... 300+ shoots. I don't doubt that there are a lot of flakes out there. But clearly, some of you guys are hanging around with the wrong models. Feb 19 06 07:25 pm Link Drifting Lotus wrote: No, Ched is correct. Feb 19 06 07:31 pm Link Don't want to hijack, but this recently kind of happened to me by another photographer. He agreed to have me co-shoot an event with him, told me what he was paying, and that he would email me all the info I needed that evening. 2 days later I still had not heard and he responded back that something had come up and he would get it to me by the next day. Also gave me his other web address and phone number. Sent him a message again a couple of days later and he says the event is still on, we were still on and he would get me the info. Well, the event is coming up this weekend and I still don't have the info so I have scheduled something else. Feb 20 06 11:10 am Link Ken Mierzwa wrote: That last statement is probably correct. Feb 20 06 01:47 pm Link Rich Meade wrote: Maybe, however I can see that being abused very easily. I found the best way to know if a model or photographer is good to use the best way is to message their MM# to a few friends on MM to see if they are reputable. Word gets around fast when someone isn't worth working with. Feb 20 06 01:52 pm Link Belladonna wrote: OMP has kind of a rating system in drop down boxes. Rating of No Comment, Good Work, Excellent Work, etc. I think that works well. Nothing bad is said, but if two have worked together and No Comment is listed, better pass. Feb 21 06 01:26 am Link shoot me than. i live in boston and i could be at your location before you show up. some models just need to be willing to cooperate. if they cant make it, they should of told ya Feb 21 06 01:31 am Link amanda Irish wrote: some people are too flexible with freedom though, so thats why its always situations like this Feb 21 06 01:46 am Link |
