Photographer
Malchow Photography
Posts: 314
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
When dealing with new talent, or models that have little to no experience, to those that have some experience... what do you other photogs normally charge when selling the rights of your images to them if at all?
Photographer
Vector 38
Posts: 8296
Austin, Texas, US
need more info: what specific rights are you selling? and for how long? what kind of intended usage? distribution? other? ... or, are you, hope not, possibly talking about a total buyout?
fml, photog
Photographer
RICHARD CREAN
Posts: 376
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
I never sell rights to any of my work unless it is a very high dollar figure. The last time I did I was paid $29,797.00 for one image and I can prove that with check stubs. What is your work worth to you?
Photographer
Malchow Photography
Posts: 314
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Total buyout, with reserved right to continue using the pics in conjunction with the promotion the business.
[edit] ... in conjunction with the promotion of my photography business.
Photographer
Vector 38
Posts: 8296
Austin, Texas, US
Malchow Photography wrote:
Total buyout, with reserved right to continue using the pics in conjunction with the promotion of the business. "total" doesn't really leave room for continued usage ...
... but why would you want to sell the whole thing? would the client accept terms, and the lower price, of a carefully lined out usage policy?
it's all just business ...
fml, photog
Photographer
James Jackson Fashion
Posts: 11132
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Malchow Photography wrote:
Total buyout, with reserved right to continue using the pics in conjunction with the promotion of the business. Total buyout of the copyright to the images can be very expensive...in the $1500 + per image range.
If they'd like a more logical and normal type of license, most businesses are content with a 1 to 3 year exclusive copyright with reservations for photographer and model's self promotion (in other words you're licensing the business to have exclusive reproduction rights of the image for a term of one, two, or three years while reserving the right to reproduce the images for yourself and the model(s) during that time) - that type of license can be much cheaper...usually resulting in a day rate of between $1000-$3000 (not directly proportionate to the amount of time of licensed) with further cost for national ad campaigns.
Photographer
Thom Bourgois
Posts: 105
Tucson, Arizona, US
I donât sell rights; I license rights. Youâre speaking about rights to models. I do license limited rights of some images to models for limited promotional purposes, i.e., their portfolios. I give them those limited rights as a courtesy or part of the bargain when doing TFP or TFCD. I suggest going to the art publisher, Allworth, and picking up copies of their law and legal books for photographers. Their web site is www.allwoth.com. ....TB
Photographer
Malchow Photography
Posts: 314
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Thom Bourgois wrote:
I suggest going to the art publisher, Allworth, and picking up copies of their law and legal books for photographers. Their web site is www.allwoth.com.
....TB Thank you TB! I will definitely look into it!
Photographer
Malchow Photography
Posts: 314
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
James Jackson wrote:
Total buyout of the copyright to the images can be very expensive...in the $1500 + per image range.
If they'd like a more logical and normal type of license, most businesses are content with a 1 to 3 year exclusive copyright with reservations for photographer and model's self promotion (in other words you're licensing the business to have exclusive reproduction rights of the image for a term of one, two, or three years while reserving the right to reproduce the images for yourself and the model(s) during that time) - that type of license can be much cheaper...usually resulting in a day rate of between $1000-$3000 (not directly proportionate to the amount of time of licensed) with further cost for national ad campaigns. I would like to discuss this with you further... please e-mail me I have a few more questions... [email protected]
And thank you for your input...very informative.
Photographer
Silver Tip Images
Posts: 15
Renton, Washington, US
What was your arrangement before the shoot??? I never sell the whole thing. Have sold negatives on a wedding but they paid a set price for the whole set. If doing a model shoot for TFP that is a restricted useage, personal and web site promotion only...
Photographer
Malchow Photography
Posts: 314
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Silver Tip Images wrote:
What was your arrangement before the shoot??? I never sell the whole thing. Have sold negatives on a wedding but they paid a set price for the whole set. If doing a model shoot for TFP that is a restricted useage, personal and web site promotion only... I am ok with the usage in materials that I have produced for them, (portfolio book, comp cards) but not so much on websites, as they ( the images) in most cases can be stolen from them.
I give limited authorization for the model's usage of the images as in the portfolio books, and composite cards. But have run into difficulty with some that have stolen images and have used them for promotional purposes without my consent (i.e: fliers, brochures, bulletins, etc, about performances or shows they had coming up)
Photographer
Malchow Photography
Posts: 314
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Malchow Photography wrote:
I am ok with the usage in materials that I have produced for them, (portfolio book, comp cards) but not so much on websites, as they ( the images) in most cases can be stolen from them.
I give limited authorization for the model's usage of the images as in the portfolio books, and composite cards. But have run into difficulty with some that have stolen images and have used them for promotional purposes without my consent (i.e: fliers, brochures, bulletins, etc, about performances or shows they had coming up) [add on] I guess the question that I am asking, is more specifically this....
If selling the rights or Licensing the rights to a model (usually new models) for use in self promotion, (yet still reserving the rights to continue use of the images myself, in promotion, and in conjunction with promotion of my photography business) what would be a reasonable fee to charge for the unrestricted use by the model, of said images?
Photographer
Moraxian
Posts: 2607
Germantown, Maryland, US
RICHARD CREAN wrote:
I never sell rights to any of my work unless it is a very high dollar figure. The last time I did I was paid $29,797.00 for one image and I can prove that with check stubs. What is your work worth to you? Wow! For that, I would consider selling 2 or 3 images. 
Seriously, nicely done! Congratulations!
Photographer
Saryn Angel
Posts: 464
Los Angeles, California, US
I'm in a similar situation, cept the model signed the release and later got cold feet. she has a very big name, and if I were unscruptulous, could make a great deal from the photos. I want to do what is fair, but do not want to be taken advantage of.
The background on the shoot is that the shoot was a mutually beneficial shoot for myself and the book for the make up artist. The MUA asked the girl to do the shoot for him, and specified that I would have her sign a model release, which she did. The shoot was TFP and no money exchanged.
There are approximately 70 images that are being discussed. She wants to purchase the copyright from me so that she has complete control over the images. The girl is about 20 and under her parents thumb...
Any advice?
Photographer
James Jackson Fashion
Posts: 11132
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Malchow Photography wrote:
If selling the rights or Licensing the rights to a model (usually new models) for use in self promotion, (yet still reserving the rights to continue use of the images myself, in promotion, and in conjunction with promotion of my photography business) what would be a reasonable fee to charge for the unrestricted use by the model, of said images? $0
Technically the model can always use any image that you produce if only for "Self promotion" although it can get a bit tricky if she starts printing out a head shot you did in quantity to sell at signing opportunities.
Self promotion as in a portfolio is not unrestricted use though...you're restricting the use to the model posting such a photo in their portfolio or web based portfolio and not allowing them to do anything else with the image.
If they want to expand the rights of an image that they have in their portfolio already, then I'd say the new licensing would be covered under the normal rules for licensing that you would use for any other customer: How many, how big a distribution, and how much money are they going to make off them.
Photographer
James Jackson Fashion
Posts: 11132
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Saryn Angel wrote:
There are approximately 70 images that are being discussed. She wants to purchase the copyright from me so that she has complete control over the images. The girl is about 20 and under her parents thumb...
Any advice? This is where the situation changes.
She wants complete copyright control over the image in perpetuity forever and ever, then she has to pay for them....that's where fees like $20,000 per image come in.
How much money could you make with those images over your entire career?
Are they useful for stock? (if so you could make a lot more than you may initially think and $20,000 might be on the low end for signing over the copyright)
Are they something that you might at a later date want to include in your own portfolio or sell prints from?
Assuming the nicest case scenario that they have absolutely no implied value to you, she just wants the copyrights so that you never release the images yourself and she has no plan to release the image herself, then I'd say make sure that the total costs to you for that day, and any time you spent editing or dealing with that model at all are fully covered. ($2000-$8000?)
Photographer
J Cross Photography
Posts: 17
Detroit, Michigan, US
I've been advised by several photographer never to sell your rights unless u are receiving top dollar (5 figures or more). I turned down a major job during Super Bowl because the company wanted total ownership of the photos and only wanted to pay a few (very few) hundred dollars for ownership. I don't regret my decision turning down the job
Photographer
Saryn Angel
Posts: 464
Los Angeles, California, US
This is where the situation changes. She wants complete copyright control over the image in perpetuity forever and ever, then she has to pay for them....that's where fees like $20,000 per image come in. Much as I would like to think my work is worth this, I can't in all honestly justify this cost.
How much money could you make with those images over your entire career? Are they useful for stock? (if so you could make a lot more than you may initially think and $20,000 might be on the low end for signing over the copyright) I am not currently selling my photos for ad purposes... so I honestly do not have any basis for comparison.
Are they something that you might at a later date want to include in your own portfolio or sell prints from? Yes, they are something I want to use in my portfolio. That would be a portion of contract that I agree to - I would be able to use them for personal promotion, as well as the MUA having promotion rights.
Assuming the nicest case scenario that they have absolutely no implied value to you, she just wants the copyrights so that you never release the images yourself and she has no plan to release the image herself, then I'd say make sure that the total costs to you for that day, and any time you spent editing or dealing with that model at all are fully covered. ($2000-$8000?) This is the type of information that I was looking for - And it falls into what I was thinking.
Thank you so much for your response!
Saryn
Photographer
James Jackson Fashion
Posts: 11132
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Saryn Angel wrote:
This is the type of information that I was looking for - And it falls into what I was thinking.
Thank you so much for your response!
Saryn You might want to see the "Photog expenses" thread - https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=31803 for how I figured on $2000-$8000 and do your own math with your own real world costs to figure how much should be charged
Photographer
Malchow Photography
Posts: 314
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
James Jackson wrote:
You might want to see the "Photog expenses" thread - https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=31803 for how I figured on $2000-$8000 and do your own math with your own real world costs to figure how much should be charged Thank you JJ, and Saryn
This is what I was loking for as well. And My apologies to you JJ, for not e-mailing you directly...
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