Photographer
picturemephotography
Posts: 93
Muncie, Indiana, US
a couple of weeks ago a new model joined a "models website", she had a different look(style, pretty face). the pix she posted she took of herself(litterally). you can tell she is holding the camera and taking the shots of herself. all five shots were head shots taken by her.
now i know, u have the right in america to charge anyone for anything you have if they want it from u. but she wanted me to pay her $150/hr a minimum of 2hrs. i had to mail her half the payment and release for her review. pay her the remainder up her arrival. now my question again, should new models ask to be paid for a shoot?
needless to say i didn't respond to the email.
Photographer
Mikel Featherston
Posts: 11103
San Diego, California, US
This poor horse has been beaten far too often. The simple answer: She is perfectly within her right to ask for whatever she thinks she can get. You are perfectly in your right to laugh and press delete, or reach for the wallet, whichever you choose to do.
You can also start a dialogue and haggle. But please, don't start this all over again.
Model
Model Klau Dia
Posts: 384
Los Gatos, California, US
picturemephotography wrote:
a couple of weeks ago a new model joined a "models website", she had a different look(style, pretty face). the pix she posted she took of herself(litterally). you can tell she is holding the camera and taking the shots of herself. all five shots were head shots taken by her.
now i know, u have the right in america to charge anyone for anything you have if they want it from u. but she wanted me to pay her $150/hr a minimum of 2hrs. i had to mail her half the payment and release for her review. pay her the remainder up her arrival. now my question again, should new models ask to be paid for a shoot?
needless to say i didn't respond to the email. No, that's stupid.
Anyone can ask for anything but realistically she shouldn't expect a response other than a joke.
If you do respond tell her to educate herself and start building from the bottom up like everyone else. She's making a fool of herself.
... There are exceptions of course, the 6'1", 112 lb. Foreign 18, year old drop dead gorgeaous beauty that will be signed exclusive tomorro and happens to have the day off - YES. I am assuming this is not the case.
Model
BeccaNDSouth
Posts: 1670
Olympia, Washington, US
If the model has no experience with a professional photographer, then I would have to say the answer is no. If she has done a few shoots, then I would say it depends. If her images from the few shoots clearly show she can pose, and work the camera well, then it is possible that she is worthy of monetary payment. However, I would only pay her if she is clearly working on a project you plan on selling images for, or are submitting to a magazine or something. Otherwise, the only other time I think money should be involved is if she is doing nude work.
Remember: you are the photographer, not the client. The client should really be the one paying. If she is just starting out, then her payment should be tfp or a test...and probably nothing more. That is just what I would do.
Model
~*Isabel Aurora*~
Posts: 5778
Boca del Mar, Florida, US
I agree with Mikel
Me thinks that when new models do that ($$ p/hr with 2 hour minimum) they are just playing the monkey-see monkey-do game. They probably saw it on someone else's profile, thought it sounded professional, and just copied it.
Model
Amie Alexa
Posts: 20
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
DEFINATELY NOT...I am assuming she has no experience since she has no "professional" pictures?...Therefore, you shouldn't waste your time on those kind of models, they only want the money and it is very unprofessional....
Photographer
Mikel Featherston
Posts: 11103
San Diego, California, US
CrazyIsabelAurora wrote:
I agree with Mikel Will you marry me?
Photographer
Stephen Dawson
Posts: 29259
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
If she is looking to do hustler style shoots for any GWC, sure. Why, not.
Photographer
Vector 38
Posts: 8296
Austin, Texas, US
granted, there are exceptions:
had a girl in one of the local agencies doing her first (i.e., no prior experience in film or video) filmed commercial; naturally, yes, she was paid for her work.
like i said, that's probably an exception; a twist on the usual question about new models charging outlandish fees for shoots.
best to all,
frank_photog
Model
Vera van Munster
Posts: 4095
Belmont, North Carolina, US
I dont see a problem paying a new model if her at home photos are at least proof enough that she is great in front of the camera and very talented. If she has dull photos and is asking to be paid and hasnt proved her worth,then no she should do tfp or tfcd.
Photographer
Trobee Photography
Posts: 68
Memphis, Tennessee, US
Hi pituremephotography... I would give you the perfect answer to this...but my rates for advice is $200. Will you pay me?
Photographer
Charles Morris
Posts: 164
Atlanta, Georgia, US
I dont pay models unless I am getting paid by a client ...and then that client will pay for it when I send the invoice ... Basic economics ..
Model
~*Isabel Aurora*~
Posts: 5778
Boca del Mar, Florida, US
Mikel Featherston wrote:
Will you marry me? sure, but my rates are $200 and hour with a 10-year minimum and travel expenses must be covered
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 26342
Portland, Oregon, US
Amie-Nguyen wrote:
DEFINATELY NOT...I am assuming she has no experience since she has no "professional" pictures?...Therefore, you shouldn't waste your time on those kind of models, they only want the money and it is very unprofessional.... With respect, I find it ironic to assume that people who want to be paid are unprofessional. Isn't a definition of a "professional model" someone who earns their living through posing for photographs?
In my experience, lots of beginning models are something other than models -- they are students or bartenders or actors or whatever, and as such, they have limited time to devote to modeling. In order to take the time away from their main occupation, some of them need compensation. I, for one, have no problem with them asking to get paid. And, of course, it is up to the photographer to decide that the requested fee with worth it.
Note to beginner models: Experience does count. Typically, photographers can be much more productive with experienced models than with beginners. Therefore, do not be surprised if a photographer balks at paying an inexperienced model, or paying such a model a lower rate.
Personally, I don't ignore requests, nor do I joke about them. If the fee is too high, I either make a counter offer, or I simply tell the model that I can't afford to pay her the requested fee. If she is pricing herself out of the market, she'll learn soon enough.
Finally, I am a big advocate of building a local artistic community, and modeling fees is one thing that can/should be discussed in the community. Beginning models might make a wild guess at what a fee should be; by talking with other models, she may start out asking a more reasonable "market rate" fee.
Model
_Kimberly
Posts: 330
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Pay somebody 300$ when they don't have a clue what they're doing? If she wants to get work, and no one is willing to give her that much, she'll eventually drop her prices, right? In the meantime, you can just find someone more experienced for much cheaper.  (...And wouldn't it be great if you payed her half now and then she decides to flake out on you?)
Photographer
Mikel Featherston
Posts: 11103
San Diego, California, US
CrazyIsabelAurora wrote:
sure, but my rates are $200 and hour with a 10-year minimum and travel expenses must be covered Hmm... would you consider TFP and paid travel if I said please?
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
We have had this same discussion so many times, but I have a simple question, why do you care what she asks for? If you don't want to pay her rate, just say no and move on. In her case, she didn't even ask you for money, you simply saw it on her profile.
We beat this to death all the time. A model can and should ask for whatever she wants. The market will determine what she finally gets. There is no reason for anyone to get emotionally involved in the issue.
Photographer
picturemephotography
Posts: 93
Muncie, Indiana, US
Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
We have had this same discussion so many times, but I have a simple question, why do you care what she asks for? If you don't want to pay her rate, just say no and move on. In her case, she didn't even ask you for money, you simply saw it on her profile.
We beat this to death all the time. A model can and should ask for whatever she wants. The market will determine what she finally gets. There is no reason for anyone to get emotionally involved in the issue. her prices were not posted. in fact she gave me a list of rules that i must comply with on top of a price in responce to my request to shoot
Photographer
Dave Krueger
Posts: 2851
Huntsville, Alabama, US
picturemephotography wrote:
now my question again, should new models ask to be paid for a shoot? New models can do whatever the heck they want to do. And you can take or leave it.
Personally, I hire a model based only on her looks. I don't care if she's never seen a camera before. The only talent I need from a model is the ability to show up on time.
If a new model is attractive enough to book cash jobs, then more power to her. She's not a charity.
-Dave
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
picturemephotography wrote:
her prices were not posted. in fact she gave me a list of rules that i must comply with on top of a price in responce to my request to shoot Then I'm sorry, I misread your post. The answer is to tell her "No." If you do that, the problem is solved. If people don't hire her, she will have to change her rules and her rates. But she is still entitled to ask for whatever she wants. You just don't need to accept them.
Model
Belladonna
Posts: 24
Los Angeles, California, US
Looknsee Photography wrote:
With respect, I find it ironic to assume that people who want to be paid are unprofessional. Isn't a definition of a "professional model" someone who earns their living through posing for photographs?
In my experience, lots of beginning models are something other than models -- they are students or bartenders or actors or whatever, and as such, they have limited time to devote to modeling. In order to take the time away from their main occupation, some of them need compensation. I, for one, have no problem with them asking to get paid. And, of course, it is up to the photographer to decide that the requested fee with worth it.
Note to beginner models: Experience does count. Typically, photographers can be much more productive with experienced models than with beginners. Therefore, do not be surprised if a photographer balks at paying an inexperienced model, or paying such a model a lower rate.
Personally, I don't ignore requests, nor do I joke about them. If the fee is too high, I either make a counter offer, or I simply tell the model that I can't afford to pay her the requested fee. If she is pricing herself out of the market, she'll learn soon enough.
Finally, I am a big advocate of building a local artistic community, and modeling fees is one thing that can/should be discussed in the community. Beginning models might make a wild guess at what a fee should be; by talking with other models, she may start out asking a more reasonable "market rate" fee. I think that is one of the most well thought out responses I have heard in a topic yet. I agree with your response overall; if the model is out of their league, so be it. If the photographer is/is not willing to pay, so be it. Excellent.
Model
Belladonna
Posts: 24
Los Angeles, California, US
Looknsee Photography wrote:
With respect, I find it ironic to assume that people who want to be paid are unprofessional. Isn't a definition of a "professional model" someone who earns their living through posing for photographs?
In my experience, lots of beginning models are something other than models -- they are students or bartenders or actors or whatever, and as such, they have limited time to devote to modeling. In order to take the time away from their main occupation, some of them need compensation. I, for one, have no problem with them asking to get paid. And, of course, it is up to the photographer to decide that the requested fee with worth it.
Note to beginner models: Experience does count. Typically, photographers can be much more productive with experienced models than with beginners. Therefore, do not be surprised if a photographer balks at paying an inexperienced model, or paying such a model a lower rate.
Personally, I don't ignore requests, nor do I joke about them. If the fee is too high, I either make a counter offer, or I simply tell the model that I can't afford to pay her the requested fee. If she is pricing herself out of the market, she'll learn soon enough.
Finally, I am a big advocate of building a local artistic community, and modeling fees is one thing that can/should be discussed in the community. Beginning models might make a wild guess at what a fee should be; by talking with other models, she may start out asking a more reasonable "market rate" fee. I think that is one of the most well thought out responses I have heard in a topic yet. I agree with your response overall; if the model is out of their league, so be it. If the photographer is/is not willing to pay, so be it. Excellent.
Photographer
Jack D Trute
Posts: 4558
New York, New York, US
Dave Krueger wrote:
New models can do whatever the heck they want to do. And you can take or leave it.
Personally, I hire a model based only on her looks. I don't care if she's never seen a camera before. The only talent I need from a model is the ability to show up on time.
If a new model is attractive enough to book cash jobs, then more power to her. She's not a charity.
-Dave I agree. We all have value. If someone wishes to give it away for perceived advancement then fine but why should someone need experience for a job that does not need experience.
Experience is so overrated. This is photography and modeling, this is life. You can all choose to ask to be paid, the market will tell you wether or not that this profession is the right choice.
If a model is hot then why not ask for coin. If a photographer just has it not just image wise but he has the thing that people want to be around him(a much ignored item in making it big),
Then why not ask for money.
I should turn the question around and ask who the hell thought up the idea of working for free?
Not me, that is for sure.
Stop the tarded madness and pay me now.
Photographer
SLE Photography
Posts: 68937
Orlando, Florida, US
Kimmy275 wrote:
(...And wouldn't it be great if you payed her half now and then she decides to flake out on you?) Yeah, that was the part that caught MY eye
No WAY I am sending someone $ in advance
When they show up to work, I trade them a check for the release form.
Photographer
Jack D Trute
Posts: 4558
New York, New York, US
Looknsee Photography wrote:
Note to beginner models: Experience does count. Typically, photographers can be much more productive with experienced models than with beginners. Therefore, do not be surprised if a photographer balks at paying an inexperienced model, or paying such a model a lower rate. why, how, where, when does it matter. It matters if you have the look, the body, the vision, able to move. These are most often things not learned on photoshoots but you either just have or you learned long ago.
I disagree strongely.
Do not be surprised if an inexperienced photographer does not know how to judge a model correctly and thus will want an experienced model.
learn how to judge a facial structure, movement, balance, personality, body type, and confidence and that is a much more important judge then experience.
Photographer
SLE Photography
Posts: 68937
Orlando, Florida, US
picturemephotography wrote:
her prices were not posted. in fact she gave me a list of rules that i must comply with on top of a price in responce to my request to shoot OOooo, what was in the rules?
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 26342
Portland, Oregon, US
Jack D Trute wrote:
why, how, where, when does it matter. It matters if you have the look, the body, the vision, able to move. These are most often things not learned on photoshoots but you either just have or you learned long ago.
I disagree strongely. We can agree to disagree. Certainly, genetics plays a very large role in the appeal of a model. Also, some models move better than others. But I'll contend that movement, presentation, communication with the photographer, and other stuff are skills that can be refined with practice.
Photographer
Arizona Shoots
Posts: 28719
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Yeah, right. Let's assume you had more money than brains and decided to shoot her on her terms. My guess is that she would show up and for the whole shoot would be saying, "I don't know what to do. Tell me what to do." Then you'd be pretty pissed off that this cost you $300 to find out.
Model
Diane ly
Posts: 1068
Manhattan, Illinois, US
I don't know should a new photographer be charged by models for a shoot? Answer this question and it will answer the one you posted in return. 
Photographer
ArghGoNut Photography
Posts: 636
Key West, Florida, US
Mikel Featherston wrote:
Will you marry me? She will but it's $150 per hour and a 5 year minimum
Photographer
Jay Bowman
Posts: 6511
Los Angeles, California, US
I could be wrong about this...
...but it seems to me that as a model, one would receive paid work based on one's look and ability in front of the camera. If the look is worth the money she's charging, then pay it as long as your requirements extend no further than looks.
There are models who've been at it for years and have excellent imagery. But they could also be habitually late, quick to no-show, divas on the set, and all-around difficult to deal with. Does the length of time modeling validate paying a rate for that track record? New or seasoned doesn't dictate charging a rate.
So, should a new model charge rates? Absolutely. His/her rate could range from 3 prints per shoot to a pirate's stash per hour. But nobody's making you pay it. If she gets takers who will pay, good for her. If she doesn't, then she'll adjust her rate until she gets more bookings.
Otherwise, she'll price herself out of the market and will quickly be of no concern to anyone. I wouldn't worry about it too much...
Photographer
Dave Krueger
Posts: 2851
Huntsville, Alabama, US
Diana Moffitt wrote:
I don't know should a new photographer be charged by models for a shoot? Answer this question and it will answer the one you posted in return. Yes. The quickest way for a new photographer to build a good port is to work with a good model who can give him great poses with no direction from him (sice he doesn't know anything anyway). Is that worth money? It certainly could be.
Don't ya agree?
-Dave
Photographer
JSPHOTO
Posts: 206
Appleton, Wisconsin, US
Hey, agencies models are sent on jobs with as little as one shoot under their belt. I know of one who walked into the agency and had the look of a no-show model. Her first 'shoot' was some 'roids faxed to the client.
She was on her first shoot without a pro pic ever taken.
Ya, the exception.
But, the model can ask whatever she wants. She's within her right to ask, as you are to deny.
JOel
Model
Nemi
Posts: 27413
Jamaica, New York, US
Photographer
JSPHOTO
Posts: 206
Appleton, Wisconsin, US
Hey, agencies models are sent on jobs with as little as one shoot under their belt. There is no 'upcharge' for experience.
I know of one who walked into the agency and had the look of a no-show model. Her first 'shoot' was some 'roids faxed to the client.
She was on her first shoot without a pro pic ever taken.
Ya, the exception.
But, the model can ask whatever she wants. She's within her right to ask, as you are to deny.
JOel
Photographer
Mark Brummitt
Posts: 40527
Clarkston, Michigan, US
Looknsee Photography wrote:
With respect, I find it ironic to assume that people who want to be paid are unprofessional. Isn't a definition of a "professional model" someone who earns their living through posing for photographs?
In my experience, lots of beginning models are something other than models -- they are students or bartenders or actors or whatever, and as such, they have limited time to devote to modeling. In order to take the time away from their main occupation, some of them need compensation. I, for one, have no problem with them asking to get paid. And, of course, it is up to the photographer to decide that the requested fee with worth it.
Note to beginner models: Experience does count. Typically, photographers can be much more productive with experienced models than with beginners. Therefore, do not be surprised if a photographer balks at paying an inexperienced model, or paying such a model a lower rate.
Personally, I don't ignore requests, nor do I joke about them. If the fee is too high, I either make a counter offer, or I simply tell the model that I can't afford to pay her the requested fee. If she is pricing herself out of the market, she'll learn soon enough.
Finally, I am a big advocate of building a local artistic community, and modeling fees is one thing that can/should be discussed in the community. Beginning models might make a wild guess at what a fee should be; by talking with other models, she may start out asking a more reasonable "market rate" fee. Very nice response. I couldn't agree more.
Photographer
clickrick523
Posts: 5
North Scituate, Massachusetts, US
Here's the REAL deal Folks, First of all,this is a Business! Any worthwhile Goal is worth paying for! You invest in schools, don't you? You invest in a NEW Car, don't you?? Well, the same logic exists here. When I first began I innvested in a trip to ME for my First SHoot,and the Model Agent didn't even offer to pay my Mileage expense,little did I know then. So I payed the Model $150.00 for a 2 hour shoot! So now when I'm marketing my Services, I may charge a minimum of a 2 Hour shoot, but am willing to give a New Model more of my time, so will possibly extend that 2 Hour minimum into 5 Hours...and not charge her over the 2 Hours.... This works for me...... I do charge a higher rate now per hour since the rise in Gas Prices. Hope that helps! Soo come do a Shoot with me and BE A TEAM! ~~~Rick from RI~~~ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- picturemephotography wrote:
a couple of weeks ago a new model joined a "models website", she had a different look(style, pretty face). the pix she posted she took of herself(litterally). you can tell she is holding the camera and taking the shots of herself. all five shots were head shots taken by her.
now i know, u have the right in america to charge anyone for anything you have if they want it from u. but she wanted me to pay her $150/hr a minimum of 2hrs. i had to mail her half the payment and release for her review. pay her the remainder up her arrival. now my question again, should new models ask to be paid for a shoot?
needless to say i didn't respond to the email.
|
