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Returning a Photographer's Email
Ok this is the first thread I have officially "started". Overall I'm pretty happy with the internet modeling world. Everyone has been super nice to me, and I've made a lot of friends and business contacts. I have one issue that has been bothering me though. I'll notice my little mail envelope flashing indicating I have "new mail". I go to check it out, and find an email saying "Hey! Love your look. I'll be in your area soon, let's see if we can set something up. Write me back, let's talk!". I hate this. On my profile, I state that I do not do TFP, only paid work. So, am I to assume they have read this and are interested in paying me to shoot? Or, am I to assume they did not read that, and are interested in TFP? Regardless, they have left me very little detail as to what they are looking for. I've tried different responses to this, and everytime, I approach it wrong. I've tried writing back "Hey thanks for your interest! My rates are blah blah blah", and they write back (or don't write back) "No thanks I'm looking for TFP", and they act offended I would throw my rates at them without them ever asking. I've tried, "Hey thanks for your interest! I'm not looking to do TFP right now, but let me know if you were thinking something else", and again, they get pissed. They get upset that I would assume they would even work with TFP. From my past experiences, when a photographer is offering me a paid shoot, they throw that information out right away, it seems like a guaranteed way to get a models response. "Hey I love your look! I would love to shoot you, paid of course. Please get back to me, let's talk!" I love this, not only because it's paid lol, but because they stated what they were looking for in the intial email. I didn't have to guess what they wanted. I didn't have to sit there forever trying to find a polite way to respond without offending. It was professional, and to the point. I'm not sure if anyone else experiences this, or if photographers have a reason behind being SO VAGUE on their first email, but I'd like to know if there is. In my opinion, the first email should state what you are looking for and more details then "hey lets shoot!". It honestly makes it very hard for a model to respond, especially one that considers your feelings, and probably contributes to the low response rates from models. Jun 23 05 09:38 am Link The vagueness is often due to laziness. These photographers assume most models won't respond, so they create a self-fulfilling prophesy by sending out a message most models don't want to respond to. I have a section on all my profile pages outlining the pertinent information I want in the initial contact. When i get vague emails, I say "thanks for your interest! Please provide the followning information so I can assess your offer..." Copy and paste. Generally, I never hear from them again. Occasionally someone I won't do TFP with gets snippy when I say someone has to pay me or I won't do it, but I've become quite numb to that. Jun 23 05 09:46 am Link Why don't you be just as "vauge" then and just write back - "hey thanks for the interest - tell me more about what you are looking for and let's see if we canwork together." Who knows, you might click with the photographer so well that you would do TFP or they may have a creative idea you want for your portfolio...don't limit yourself cause you never know... Jun 23 05 09:47 am Link I have often thought about putting up a list of criteria on my main page, but I have stopped myself. From reading these forums, photographers get very offended by what a model puts on her "About Me" section. If they think the model is on a high horse, they won't even write her. I think we have the right to put that up, but I fear the reaction it will cause with photographers, limiting the amount of emails I receive in general. I should probably state that I need a detailed email, but if they aren't reading about the Paid shoots only, then they probably won't read that. You are right, it is self fulfilling prophecy. Jun 23 05 09:49 am Link Posted by Hailey: I agree, but, I feel it is wasted time. Often time it takes each party a day or two to respond back and forth, and it just delays the whole process, which increases the chances of not working together. At some point in this "vague email" world, someone gets busy, and stops responding. They start paying attention to the precise emails. Jun 23 05 09:52 am Link Guess it is all based on how much you really want to work with the photographer if you are willing to go through those extra steps. I don't usually send an email to a model that is vauge unless I am just making contact to set up an initial line of communitcation because I might have future opportunities I want to work with her on. If I have a limited time in a location - I would at least put when I am in town - what kind of shoot I am looking for and what time constraints I am on. Jun 23 05 09:59 am Link If a model's information says "paid only," I will rarely even bother. Sometimes, though, if she's perfect for something I'm working on, and I feel that she might consider it because of other benefits, I'll email anyway, but be very clear. For example - Soshana - I realize your profile says "paid only," but I felt I should make you aware of my current project. It's this that or the other thing, and it has a huge exposure profile because of A, B and C. If you're interested, it's obviously not a paid gig, but I am offering this and that and this other thing for the shoot, and you'll get a copy of the whole shebang. If you're interested, please do let me know. If not, I completely understand, and thanks for your time. Would an email like that offend you? I suspect not. Jun 23 05 10:04 am Link It's rare to never that photographers actually provide all the information I ask for the first time around, but it's nice to have something to ccopy and paste. I may get more inquiries if I'm more vague, but if someone's feelings are hurt because I asked them if the shoot is TFP or paid, imagine what would happen if they get in the same room with me? Jun 23 05 10:04 am Link Posted by Chris Ambler: No, it would not offend me, and none of the emails really offend me, they just frustrate me because I have trouble responding without offending the photographer. Jun 23 05 10:07 am Link Posted by theda: Great point. Models have certain red flags, and a photographer who gets pissy about something minor is definitely one of them. Jun 23 05 10:08 am Link If you really want to cut through the chase, the best way I think to respond would be, "Thank you for your interest. As my profile states, I am accepting only paid shoots at this time. Please provide me with details of what you are looking for along with the compensation you are offering so I can better decide about your opportunity. Again, thank you for your interest and I look forward to hearing from you soon." If they get snippy over that reply, it only goes to show you how unprofessional they are. Jun 23 05 10:10 am Link Posted by Ty Simone: Great response. I like it. Yes, they probably will get snippy lol... I guess that's to be expected in this online world. There are professionals, and non-professionals alike. Jun 23 05 10:13 am Link my advice is more toward the top of your profile state that you are only looking for paid work. and you can have a standard reply email. i do that. when someones asks me for TFP i reply with and email referring to my rates page on my website. i'm VERY selective of who i shoot TFP (or in a nut shell for FREE LOL) so i would do this. copy this line into your profile it will make it bold and stand out. Thank You for viewing my portfolio!!! I am not looking for TFP work right now, only paid good luck. Jun 23 05 10:37 am Link Posted by Soshanna: I am getting tons of emails from models like that as well... I do state that I do almost no TFP's at all and have my package rate for models on my MM profile. Jun 23 05 10:46 am Link I can't understand why people get snippy if you basically say, "these are my rules, thank you for your interest." You explained yourself pretty clearly. Everyone wants to be the exception to the rule. Unfortunately if they are NOT they get their panties in a twist. At the moment I am not doing much tfp/testing. Almost none. I LIKE testing but I've got so much on my plate that right now I just can't (a) afford to or (b)take the time to. But as my profile says, "I can occasionally be coerced into tests (tfp) with outstanding models who are well suited to ideas I may be developing." But I get vague emails too. If I want to test with someone I usually am clear about it. Although I admit to occasionally being guilty of vagueries. I think it's a way to test the water. I'm sure that's why models do that with me and why photographers do that with you. I think the suggestions posted are pretty good ones. You just have to be willing to not worry about everyone's feelings. (It's a nice trait--but lose it! lol) As long as you are not rude you have every right to set your rules and remind people of them. Jun 23 05 11:20 am Link Given the number of e-mails I've seen in a couple of models in boxes... one friend showed me about 70, from less than a full day, only two offering pay... and the fact that most sites have more models than photographers, I can only infer that some subset of photographers out there are just spamming every online model in hopes that a few say yes. Anyone doing that can't possibly be reading the fine print. I'll also infer, from discussion on various forums and chat rooms, that there is a younger and/or less experienced and less confident type of photographer out there who contacts a very few models with a strange combination of unrealistic hopes and an expectation of rejection. Sometimes they contact a model really not very well suited to their style. These folks seem to be unknowingly setting themselves up for failure. It's true that sometimes models do this to photographers, too, but it seems to be much less common. The ones that get beyond a generic "let's work together sometime" seem to, for the most part, have actually read my web site. Still, sometimes one comes along who is clearly not paying attention. Not really sure what you can do in those cases except be as diplomatic as practical, and delete any over-emotional responses. Jun 23 05 11:22 am Link I think the short version of this story is that anyone who gets offended by you being true to yourself is someone who doesn't matter in the grand scheme and it is OK that they get offended. You are trying to be nice and that is admirable, but this is a business and you have to let some people fall by the wayside. I like that more models are putting "paid work only" in their info. You have stated up front what you are interested in and phooey on them for not reading that info before contacting you. Too many models put "depends on assignment" and then don't respond to messages they don't like. I guess it goes both ways. Jun 23 05 01:54 pm Link Personally, I try to never be vague. I WILL write to a model and propose a test shoot even if she says she does not do them. Soshanna, you are a case-in-point. I know you only want paid shoots and rarely do tests. But, I think I'm good enough to be "worthy" of a test with most models. So I will ask. If they turn me down, I am NOT offended or upset. If a model feels that I can't help her, then why should she shoot with me? She's not a charity. So, I do my best to be clear and direct and blunt and to never take things personally if the answer is "no." That's just business and being professional. Now, I will admit that there ARE times when I have been guilty of being vague too. But, as Theda said, that's just laziness. Sometimes, I'm in a rush and want to make contact so I'll write something quick. Lots of times, I'll also write vague emails to out-of-state models just to see if they'll be around my neck-of-the-woods anytime soon. From there, we can see if it would be a test or paid. All depends. Now, again, I have to run. So I hope this post wasn't too vague. (smirk) Jun 23 05 05:14 pm Link I seldom read instructions. I look at a portfolio as height, weight, and facial features. Anything else I generally ignore. If I like what I see, I send an e-mail saying "I like your look and I'd like to do a test with you." I don't provide details at first because I don't actually have anything in mind. I like to get to know the model a little bit and tailor the setups to the personality, but largely my work is spontaneous and I cannot describe my "plan" because my plan is to not come up with one until the model walks in the door. My introductory message is basically saying "I like your face, you fit something I have in the back of my head that I want to explore. Have a look at my pictures and if you'd like to work with me then let's talk." I'm genuinely disappointed when I don't get a response or get a negative response. As an artist I reject outright the idea that time is inherrently valueable, so I really don't know what to do with a model who is in it for the money and doesn't want to do tests, or TFP, whatever you want to call it. I'm not trying to pull one over on you, I just want to practice with my camera, which has been very profitable in terms of unique images for all of my models so far. When I have a client, I will use you again, but I would never use a strange model for a client. A test is a test, to see if we work well together. So, yes, if your profile says "no TFP" I will probably ignore it because I think you're being shortsighted when you say that, and I don't really shoot TFP, I shoot tests, I don't ask the model to sign the release until after I put down the camera the first time (to change memory cards). If they weren't comfortable it is as if the shoot did not happen at all, the images go on a DVD-R and into a drawer for personal reference, nothing else. - Ched Jun 23 05 05:29 pm Link Here are my two cents...When you get an email, the first thing everyone does is look at the profile. If the model and/or photographer is amazing then people start figuring out if they want to work with them - especially if pay is involved. In my experience it doesn't matter if the email is short and vague or long and detailed because the strength of the person contacting you is what is going encourage you to reply. Just like everyone who is a "pro" I do limited TFP's. Since everyone I know is hustling for work all the time, if it's slow I like to TFP scenario's because it keeps me shooting and something fresh in my book until I can get more work. A polite response to a vague email is not going to burn bridges. mike Jun 23 05 05:53 pm Link Posted by Michael Sloane: It shouldn't, but that's my point. I do respond politely, and I am obviously offending people because my response is not what they wanted. Jun 24 05 01:09 am Link Maybe photographers are looking at your work and know that other photographers you have shot with didn't pay you, well at least can guess this, and so they will ask? Jun 24 05 02:50 am Link I get two kinds from models, a TFP or if I have any paid work available. Depending on the intelligence of the wording will let me know if it's worth responding to. I have never emailed a model to shoot, if they like my work and they are serious then they should just inquire. If they are afraid to then they shouldn't think about modeling. I have handled the email accounts of many of the models I've worked with. Most of the emails they receive from photogs or "so called" are totally unprofessional and void of any detailed information. You can delete the really stupid ones or if you have an interest just ask "Can you please be more specific and give me all the details?". In most cases you'll never here from them again since they can't. Jun 24 05 03:17 am Link Actually I just got this one yesterday from the UK. She obviously thinks I'm some kind of modeling site like MM. ----------------------------------------------- hi im jamie from blackpool and would love to be a glamour model im new to the whole thing im on 1 web site so far called laurelee-world.com and i would like to get onto your web site heres some details and some pics please reply as soon as possible thaks jamiex Name : jamie louise mcconnell Telephone Number : __________________ Address : xx xxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxx (edited out) blackpool Height : 5.8_____ Hair Colour : brown____Eye Colour :blue___ Age :18 __ Shoe Size : 7__Dress Size : 8_Bust 34b_ Waist 30_Hips __ Tattoos and Piercing;playboy tattoo on my belly and a rose on my shoulder belly and ear peircing _______________________________________ Please indicate the type of modelling you are prepared to do? Stills Fashion 40+__ Commercial/advertising 40+__ Glamour 40+__ Topless 40+__ Full Figure 40+__ Men's Magazine UK/US 40+__ Jun 24 05 03:28 am Link Posted by Soshanna: Posted by Michael Sloane: It shouldn't, but that's my point. I do respond politely, and I am obviously offending people because my response is not what they wanted. Geez. Now, you've got me curious who these offended people are and what your responses look like. I like to analyze things and find the disconnect and the root cause of the problem. Jun 24 05 03:36 am Link lol *goes to message you for a TFP shoot* Jun 24 05 06:51 am Link Eh, too much stressing. Long as you're polite about it, then there shouldn't be a problemo.... Jun 24 05 07:05 am Link Posted by Soshanna: Posted by Michael Sloane: It shouldn't, but that's my point. I do respond politely, and I am obviously offending people because my response is not what they wanted. Are the people you are offending photographers who in the currently and in the future have paid work or are they amatuer/semi-pro guys? If you are offending photogs who have paid work then you shoudl rethink what you are doing because you are losing $$. It seems to me that most photogs who have paying work on the internet often require to some kind of limited test shoot is that when a model comes from an agency you have someone to call if their is a problem the day of the shoot. Testing with a model is also for the photographer to see if you are reliable. Jun 24 05 07:25 am Link Posted by Joe K. Perez: Posted by Soshanna: Posted by Michael Sloane: It shouldn't, but that's my point. I do respond politely, and I am obviously offending people because my response is not what they wanted. Geez. Now, you've got me curious who these offended people are and what your responses look like. I like to analyze things and find the disconnect and the root cause of the problem. I'm definitely not in this to rat anybody out as being rude. I have a couple of them, but overall, most individuals have been kind. I always try to keep my wording polite, and am always considerate of their feelings. I believe the problem is in the fact they were denied. Jun 24 05 08:44 am Link Posted by Soshanna:I was wondering if there was a polite way to let them know I don't do TFP only paid in my first response letter without them asking me first. The whole, what were you looking for? question does not work. I tried that once, and my response was "well doll, to take sexy pictures of you!"... second email vague as well. I don't have time for that stuff. Try "I only do TFP with published photographers. Has your work been in any magazines, and if so could I see some of your tearsheets?" Jun 24 05 09:02 am Link Posted by Ched: Posted by Soshanna:I was wondering if there was a polite way to let them know I don't do TFP only paid in my first response letter without them asking me first. The whole, what were you looking for? question does not work. I tried that once, and my response was "well doll, to take sexy pictures of you!"... second email vague as well. I don't have time for that stuff. Try "I only do TFP with published photographers. Has your work been in any magazines, and if so could I see some of your tearsheets?" Even then, they would get offended that I "assumed" they wanted to do TFP. Jun 24 05 09:21 am Link sosh, if you state no tfp then it's no tfp unless you've hinted or asked otherwise via email, message forum or chatroom. There should be no reason why they should feel offended and you should feel guilty. a simple response of "thank you for your interest" insert name here "but my time is committed to only family and paid work." ------------------------ take care ttyl Jun 24 05 10:16 am Link Yes MGA, I have shot TFP, and that was when I was building my book. Now, I may decide to shoot TFP with the individuals who were there for me when I didn't have images to prove I was worth it yet. I've NEVER paid a photographer to shoot me, and so for that I am grateful. I will always be friends with my initial photographers, and they will always hold priority. It doesn't mean that I feel like being "free" any longer for anyone new. I have no reason to be, and I won't be. If someone still wants to ask, they can. Maybe you should write that on your port? I just can't understand models who say I won't shoot tests or trades anymore, then a couple days later they have a shoot with a photographer that everyone knows doesn't pay models. If the reason is that the photographer's your buddy then let others know so they won't bother you. Jun 24 05 07:34 pm Link Models should make a point of being very clear in their profiles about what they're willing and not willing to do. My objective is clear. I don't want to waste my time or anyone else's. When a model clearly states in her profile that she doesn't do nudes or doesn't do TFP, I move on. I'm not into trying to sell anyone. My profile clearly states that my work with models is strictly TFP, yet I frequently get responses quoting their rates. This goes to the issue of people not reading. I've asked, numerous times, that work interests and willingness to do TFP be made part of the search criteria in the browse feature on this site. That would help a great deal. Perhaps it would happen if enough people emailed Tyler with the same request. Jun 25 05 12:17 am Link Models Looking for paid work should understand the dynamics of the commercial world. You don't set the parameters of the project the client does. Therefore requiring a photographer to give you specifics to your standards is a bit backwards. Although I often do not have the final say in model selection my clients (nor I) never take a chance with an unknown model(by unknown I mean a model with no land based representation or personal previous working experience). So contacting a model who is not represented by a reputable agency and requesting a test to gauge suitability is the only way I can go. If that offends some then I am sorry but the model doesn't dictate to the employer... at least if she is realistic about the dynamics of getting work. Jun 25 05 10:00 am Link Well, if a photographer asks for something specific, how about trying to answer it? I've emailed 2 models in TX that I wish to work with on my next trip there. Both of them are for pay only, but I like the look and feel that it will be worth it for me to do. I have told them that it will be probably several months until I can get there though. In each email, I have asked them to let me know what kind of pay rate that they are looking for, and what some of thier interests are. (I don't want to set up a swimwear shoot on a beach if that's all they have type thing). Both of them replied in kind, that's far out, email me when it's closer. That's basically all they put. Nothing about rates, nothing about interests, nothing to start planning a shoot off of. So basically, how about ANSWERING an email? Jun 25 05 10:18 am Link Posted by Ken Long: In this case, you did what I'm asking photographers to do, you put everything up front in the intial email. The models were at fault in this situation. By what I'm looking for, you were perfect in your approach to the models. Jun 25 05 11:33 am Link Posted by RStephenT: I'm not trying to dictate the shoot, all I'm asking is that they provide me with more details than "hey wanna shoot?". Let's say they have a job, but it pays $200/day and they will not sway from that. The first email is "Hello, I would like to work with you. I am looking for a model that will do blah blah blah the pay is $200/day. Interested" At least I know what I'm answering. Jun 25 05 11:37 am Link There are quite a few "paid only" models on this site... doesn't mean they won't test with the right photographer. Most amateur photographers don't have a model budget, and most pro photographers will not pay a model to test. So, most of your inquiries are going to be for tests. If you want to make money modeling, I highly suggest a reputable agent, and even then, it's a tough business. Photographers are never going to be a source of real income for the model... it's the jobs that the right photographer can get for the model. Personally, I would never book or recommend to a big client a model that I had no experience with, or had never met before. Keep in mind, it takes a lot of money to run a commercial studio, and when a (pro) photographer takes time to do a free test on a model, that photographer is taking time away from making money. ...Just my 2 cents... Jun 25 05 12:10 pm Link Posted by Kerry Beyer: You are right, and I personally, am not trying to make big bucks off here. I'm a self employed financial planner, and this is a side thing for me. Jun 25 05 12:48 pm Link |
