Photographer
latex-fashions
Posts: 276
Tampa, Florida, US
Posted by Doug Swinskey:
so i get this "new model notification", from an online modeling community...i notice lovely young woman, with a rediculous monikor..
at this point..i break my own rule about personally contacting models..
like i said, she had a great look and in order to weed out a flake, i sent her a "refferal".
i complimented her look and made a few suggestions about her presentaion (monikor included)..over the course of several emails..she sent me some images and asked some more questions..
she appeared really interested...
You WERE Messaging the MODEL and she was Messaging Back.
so.. i am just about to "send button" an invite to my studio, when BAMM..i get this email telling me how unprofessioanl i am and what an asshole i am...how at first she wanted to work with me but now..no way..also was a invite to contact her in the future if i ever want to deal with a professional..
NOW IN STEPS THE MODEL NON MANAGER and Blows you out because you can do a better job for her.
i have learned my lesson about directly contacting models..
:::::: a dazed doug :::::: Sounds like a typical OMP story. Or the BF read her email and replyed
Photographer
Monsante Bey
Posts: 2111
Columbus, Georgia, US
Yea, just let her pass. Most often someone probably told her some crap about you and like a moron she believed it.
Model
McKenzie
Posts: 310
Fort Myers, Florida, US
Posted by Monsante Bey:
Yea, just let her pass. Most often someone probably told her some crap about you and like a moron she believed it. I agree, you wouldn't want to work with someone like that anyway... In fact, it sounds like...you would want to stay far far FAR away. And if someone told her something bad..she should of looked into it further instead of passing judgment right away. Research is important too but, if she wanted to know true statements she should of went to past models who have worked for the photographer and put other resources available to come up with a decision. THEN, when that decision was made...the PROFESSIONAL way to go about it would be "Thank you for emailing me (or whatever the person did to contact the other) but I am not interested in working with you.
McKenzie
Photographer
RStephenT
Posts: 3105
Vacaville, California, US
Posted by Joe K. Perez:
Posted by RStephenT:
I think we've all had odd experiences when communicating on the web. Someone once told me that written communication of any form has a more powerful impact then the spoken word.
My very worst experience was with a S. California model/webmaster who runs a fine art website and who is almost beyond belief. I contacted her thinking I might work with her or at least meet her when I visited S. California, lo and behold I received an all caps reply in red... the most out of control email I have ever received... and all I did was to invite her for a cup of coffee.
You just never know. People can hide behind their computers and say some very nasty stuff. Things they would never say to your face... it can be an odd environment. Rich, the situation you describe (bolded in your post), is a perfect segue for a situation I encountered back in the day when I used to be a hacker/prankster investigator (in an unofficial capacity).
Years ago, I knew this person in my building whose corporate e-mail account was hijacked. Apparently, the intruder used an e-mail client to download the victim's mail headers from the server, pick out the ones that were requests for new business, download the full message body and delete it from the mail server. So, that my friend never knew the e-mail came in. Then, the intruder would write a mean response and send it. What this did was prevent my friend from getting new business.
In order to determine what was going on, I set up a fake e-mail and sent it to my friend, pretending to be a new customer. Lo and behold, I got a rude ass response. Then, I told my friend to send me an e-mail from his own computer. When I got it, I compared the raw Internet headers and that's how I determined his account got hijacked. The nasty response came from some swine appearing to be halfway across the world.
I had him switch his computers at his house, at his work and also switch to a mail server using a strong password policy, encryption and secure login. Then, he reported the incident to the FBI.
His situation ended, but for many, it could still be happening. Rich, your situation kinda looks like it might be happening to the Webmaster/Model you were trying to communicate with. That, or she's on drugs. Lol
So my point is this, everyone should learn how to read the raw e-mail headers to determine if it is fake. These days, it's easy to find a tutorial on the Internet on how to do this. No Joe this one was just plain nasty... she was a very angry person who just had this very narrow viewpoint, and she spent a lot of time (still does from what I can tell) of lying about her experiences so she can play the "Queen Bee" of her very very small world. Just best to avoid her... and I do.
Model
Lisa Fortier
Posts: 201
Cocoa, Florida, US
Posted by Doug Swinskey:
so i get this "new model notification", from an online modeling community...i notice lovely young woman, with a rediculous monikor..
at this point..i break my own rule about personally contacting models..
like i said, she had a great look and in order to weed out a flake, i sent her a "refferal".
I would never dream of blasting you Doug...
Poor girl just doesn't know what she's missing out on.
;o)
i complimented her look and made a few suggestions about her presentaion (monikor included)..over the course of several emails..she sent me some images and asked some more questions..
she appeared really interested...
so.. i am just about to "send button" an invite to my studio, when BAMM..i get this email telling me how unprofessioanl i am and what an asshole i am...how at first she wanted to work with me but now..no way..also was a invite to contact her in the future if i ever want to deal with a professional..
i have learned my lesson about directly contacting models..
:::::: a dazed doug ::::::
Model
Lisa Fortier
Posts: 201
Cocoa, Florida, US
Posted by Doug Swinskey:
so i get this "new model notification", from an online modeling community...i notice lovely young woman, with a rediculous monikor..
at this point..i break my own rule about personally contacting models..
like i said, she had a great look and in order to weed out a flake, i sent her a "refferal".
i complimented her look and made a few suggestions about her presentaion (monikor included)..over the course of several emails..she sent me some images and asked some more questions..
she appeared really interested...
so.. i am just about to "send button" an invite to my studio, when BAMM..i get this email telling me how unprofessioanl i am and what an asshole i am...how at first she wanted to work with me but now..no way..also was a invite to contact her in the future if i ever want to deal with a professional..
i have learned my lesson about directly contacting models..
:::::: a dazed doug :::::: oops, sorry messed that up...
I would never dream of blasting you Doug...
Poor girl just doesn't know what she's missing out on.
;o)
Photographer
Todd Taulman
Posts: 131
Chicago, Illinois, US
Now what I have noticed over the past few years, is that many models do not actively seek out photographers, introductions, seek work, etc. It seems to me, that many feel if they put their pics up on a modeling site the work will just come. Unfortunately, this is trend, I do not see changing anytime soon. With the advancement of digital technology, the very average or below average "digital button presser" can achieve results that are acceptable to the unknowing eye. Which in turn has made making a living from photography more and more difficult with the onslaught of so many "photographers" into the market. I am constantly amazed at the work which garners paying assignments and publication; and not in a good way. Anyway, I still make 1st contact with models that I am interested in working with, though 95%-99% go unanswered.
Photographer
Ascending Phoenix
Posts: 418
Lexington, Kentucky, US
Posted by RStephenT:
I think we've all had odd experiences when communicating on the web. Someone once told me that written communication of any form has a more powerful impact then the spoken word.
My very worst experience was with a S. California model/webmaster who runs a fine art website and who is almost beyond belief. I contacted her thinking I might work with her or at least meet her when I visited S. California, lo and behold I received an all caps reply in red... the most out of control email I have ever received... and all I did was to invite her for a cup of coffee.
You just never know. People can hide behind their computers and say some very nasty stuff. Things they would never say to your face... it can be an odd environment. Z dont know what ur talking about RS..** giggles**
Photographer
CharliesImages
Posts: 174
Raleigh, Illinois, US
Doug:
Perhaps the problem was not contacting the new model, but having a conversation that evidentally strayed away from a photographer/model/photo session offer.
I contact new models quite often if I like their look, they are in a reasonable area of distance, and I think that together we could produce photos of benefit to both.
Doug, I hardly feel you (or any photographer) should be offering advice to a model on her name or previous photos, unless their have been serious discussions about a photo session and are discussing what is being planned for that session.
I keep my initial email short and to the point. I provide links to my work, my location, the work I am offering, and for the model to respond if she would like additional information. If she responds, then we will get into the details and see if we want to do a session together.
Charlie
Model
BeccaNDSouth
Posts: 1670
Olympia, Washington, US
Posted by Todd Taulman:
Now what I have noticed over the past few years, is that many models do not actively seek out photographers, introductions, seek work, etc. It seems to me, that many feel if they put their pics up on a modeling site the work will just come. Unfortunately, this is trend, I do not see changing anytime soon. With the advancement of digital technology, the very average or below average "digital button presser" can achieve results that are acceptable to the unknowing eye. Which in turn has made making a living from photography more and more difficult with the onslaught of so many "photographers" into the market. I am constantly amazed at the work which garners paying assignments and publication; and not in a good way. Anyway, I still make 1st contact with models that I am interested in working with, though 95%-99% go unanswered. Many models do that, it is true. There are still a few of us out there that like to network with the photographers, look for agencies on our own, post messages on the boards, post our photos and not expect to do nothing to get work, but just post the photos so people can get an idea of what we can do, or have done.
I post my photos, stats, etc., for the photographers that I have talked to recently to be able to get an idea of my looks, so that if/when we do decide to shoot, they will know a little of how the shots may turn out. Although, it is true that different photographers have different styles of working, and so not all shots will be similar...that is a good thing.
There are still a few models out there who aren't flakes, and will do their research and take modeling seriously. Too bad that sometimes, we as models are not always taken that seriously.
As for the incident with you, Doug, I feel for ya man. I think it's crude how that model treated ya, and she gives the rest of us a bad rep.
I imagine she is on your little black list if you have one. I don't blame you one bit if you were to rat her out.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Posted by CharliesImages:
Doug: Perhaps the problem was not contacting the new model, but having a conversation that evidentally strayed away from a photographer/model/photo session offer.I contact new models quite often if I like their look, they are in a reasonable area of distance, and I think that together we could produce photos of benefit to both. Doug, I hardly feel you (or any photographer) should be offering advice to a model on her name or previous photos, unless their have been serious discussions about a photo session and are discussing what is being planned for that session.
I keep my initial email short and to the point. I provide links to my work, my location, the work I am offering, and for the model to respond if she would like additional information. If she responds, then we will get into the details and see if we want to do a session together.Charlie
as i mentioned before, its not my practice to contact models..she had crappy webcam images..i mentioned they were prob doing more harm then good..but other then that, my MO is not that far off from yours..
now i didn't know if i had anything to offer her..i am inundated with flakey models wanting me to work for free..
with this model..i liked her look..so i kept asking questions to find out just what area and how serious she was..to weed out a flake..
until i decided she wasn't a flake..i wasn't going to offer anything..
well i had decided to offer her something..
but i apparently failed "her test" moments before...
Photographer
Gary Davis
Posts: 1829
San Diego, California, US
Doug,
This may be a dumb question, but when you say you don't "contact models", do you mean you don't initiate the contact and instead let them contact you first, or that you don't interact with them at all except for the actual shoot? If it's the latter, how is the shoot even arranged?
Model
BeccaNDSouth
Posts: 1670
Olympia, Washington, US
I think he means he goes through an agency most of the time.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Posted by Gary Davis:
Doug,
This may be a dumb question, but when you say you don't "contact models", do you mean you don't initiate the contact and instead let them contact you first, or that you don't interact with them at all except for the actual shoot? If it's the latter, how is the shoot even arranged? i dont contact them directly for work..i will post castings..only if the model is a friend will i send an indidual communication..but i dont ever make the first contact..
of course i have to speak with them to coordinate shoots...
once again..i broke my own rule, with this particular young woman...
Makeup Artist
Reese
Posts: 1136
Newport News, Virginia, US
In reference to the original post, "Some people are so rude..."
It's not as though you asked her or told her to anything outlandish...
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Posted by Reese:
In reference to the original post, "Some people are so rude..." It's not as though you asked her or told her to anything outlandish... i'd love to post the whole thread of emails..so it might make more sense...but that would be unethical...
so you are in effect getting only my side of the story..
the reason to give my story some weight is that i was so blown away, this kind of thing has never happened to me before..never had the need to share it...
Photographer
not here anymore.
Posts: 1892
San Diego, California, US
lol
So what exactly did you say to piss her off Doug?
I've never had a problem with a girl telling me I'm an asshole or unprofessional, so you must of had said something really really bad. ROFLMAO
*high five*
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *:
So what exactly did you say to piss her off Doug? the truth shall not set you free..it will piss you off....
Photographer
not here anymore.
Posts: 1892
San Diego, California, US
Posted by Doug Swinskey:
the truth shall not set you free..it will piss you off.... So you told her the truth and she got pissed off? I'm still curious as what you told her.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *:
Posted by Doug Swinskey:
the truth shall not set you free..it will piss you off.... So you told her the truth and she got pissed off? I'm still curious as what you told her. something about webcam images..i cant remember....
Photographer
not here anymore.
Posts: 1892
San Diego, California, US
Posted by Doug Swinskey:
something about webcam images..i cant remember.... I know you remember, if not, I know you can find that message somewhere. 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *:
Posted by Doug Swinskey:
something about webcam images..i cant remember.... I know you remember, if not, I know you can find that message somewhere. ugh yeah..i dont remember....
Photographer
not here anymore.
Posts: 1892
San Diego, California, US
Posted by Doug Swinskey:
ugh yeah..i dont remember.... lol you said she has a nice ass didn't you? lmao
Model
McKenzie
Posts: 310
Fort Myers, Florida, US
Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *:
Posted by Doug Swinskey:
ugh yeah..i dont remember.... lol you said she has a nice ass didn't you? lmao
Well just for the record here...if a photographer said I had a nice ass...I wouldn't be offended. Well, then that means I would of been offended for a while now. It's a compliment. It only goes too far when there are sexual explicit comments made to go along with it. And from knowing and talking to Doug.....he will give a compliment if it is deserved, but I know he wouldn't be rude about it.
McKenzie
Photographer
edrickguerrero photography
Posts: 187
Pasadena, California, US
hehe...donger. long duck dong. automobeeel? you guys just made my day... Posted by Joe K. Perez:
Posted by marksora:
Posted by Doug Swinskey:
:::::: a dazed dong :::::: I loved sixteen candles. I heard they are starting filming on a version 2. I loved the donger.
HHHHHhaaaaa, your car, HHHHaaaa, buuuusss, bannnnnngggg, smmmaaaashshshs , hahhahahahah,
Best lines of the movie.
If I'm thinking of the right movie, I liked the part where he was laid out in front of the house mimicking the granddad, "Automobeel? Automobeel?" That one right there cracked me up.
Photographer
edrickguerrero photography
Posts: 187
Pasadena, California, US
oic...so i guess,"hey, your ass looks like yummy glazed cream-filled doughnuts" is out of the question? i need some vending machine food right about now... Posted by McKenzie:
Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *:
Posted by Doug Swinskey:
ugh yeah..i dont remember.... lol you said she has a nice ass didn't you? lmao
Well just for the record here...if a photographer said I had a nice ass...I wouldn't be offended. Well, then that means I would of been offended for a while now. It's a compliment. It only goes too far when there are sexual explicit comments made to go along with it. And from knowing and talking to Doug.....he will give a compliment if it is deserved, but I know he wouldn't be rude about it.
McKenzie
Model
McKenzie
Posts: 310
Fort Myers, Florida, US
Posted by edrickguerrero photography:
oic...so i guess,"hey, your ass looks like yummy glazed cream-filled doughnuts" is out of the question? i need some vending machine food right about now...
Posted by McKenzie:
Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *:
Posted by Doug Swinskey:
ugh yeah..i dont remember.... lol you said she has a nice ass didn't you? lmao
Well just for the record here...if a photographer said I had a nice ass...I wouldn't be offended. Well, then that means I would of been offended for a while now. It's a compliment. It only goes too far when there are sexual explicit comments made to go along with it. And from knowing and talking to Doug.....he will give a compliment if it is deserved, but I know he wouldn't be rude about it.
McKenzie LOL...nah didn't bother me...thanks!
McK
Photographer
Shutterbug5269
Posts: 16084
Herkimer, New York, US
If we didn't take the plunge and contact one another nobody would work right? Though I think commenting on someones appearance (even respectful constructive criticism) can get you into trouble sometimes. It is possible that he hit a sore spot with her and she over-reacted. I try to keep my communication with models to the topic of setting up a shoot, it saves me a lot of needless trouble. Posted by TressieScott:
Are there a lot of photographers that think like this? Photographers not contacting models.
I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience. Not the first time I have ever read something familiar and it won't be the last I'm sure.
Don't give up just because of one person! Other models are out there and if they think like you guys do you will never get the chance to work with them.
Wishing you all the best!
Thank you for your time.
Best Regards,
Tressie Scott
Photographer
Bruce Caines
Posts: 522
New York, New York, US
Posted by Doug Swinskey:
Posted by Gary Davis:
Doug,
This may be a dumb question, but when you say you don't "contact models", do you mean you don't initiate the contact and instead let them contact you first, or that you don't interact with them at all except for the actual shoot? If it's the latter, how is the shoot even arranged? i dont contact them directly for work..i will post castings..only if the model is a friend will i send an indidual communication..but i dont ever make the first contact..
of course i have to speak with them to coordinate shoots...
once again..i broke my own rule, with this particular young woman... I'm sure your reasons are valid for you to make this choice but it seems like you are limiting yourself. I have found a couple of great, talented models because I contacted them--some of whom have actually became good friends of mine. Just a little bonus. I'm not that big on offering shoots to people because I just don't have the time. But every once in a while someone jumps out at you and you (well--I) have to say something. I'm working on doing a shoot with Mayan Lee. I made the call. I can't imagine having seen her work and not contacting her.
Model
McKenzie
Posts: 310
Fort Myers, Florida, US
Posted by Bruce Caines:
Posted by Doug Swinskey:
Posted by Gary Davis:
Doug,
This may be a dumb question, but when you say you don't "contact models", do you mean you don't initiate the contact and instead let them contact you first, or that you don't interact with them at all except for the actual shoot? If it's the latter, how is the shoot even arranged? i dont contact them directly for work..i will post castings..only if the model is a friend will i send an indidual communication..but i dont ever make the first contact..
of course i have to speak with them to coordinate shoots...
once again..i broke my own rule, with this particular young woman... I'm sure your reasons are valid for you to make this choice but it seems like you are limiting yourself. I have found a couple of great, talented models because I contacted them--some of whom have actually became good friends of mine. Just a little bonus. I'm not that big on offering shoots to people because I just don't have the time. But every once in a while someone jumps out at you and you (well--I) have to say something. I'm working on doing a shoot with Mayan Lee. I made the call. I can't imagine having seen her work and not contacting her. Exactly..I think that is great!!! Seriously.
McKenzie
Model
Mz Nova
Posts: 2608
Portland, Oregon, US
Truth is, no matter where you work you re going to occationally get blasted if you have contact with people. Ther more contact, the more you get blasted. Ever work for fast food? my sister came home with horror stories of people taking their aggressions out on others. Something I can weork on is "like water off a ducks back". Risk your neck a bit, you may find a wonderful model, if not, you'll be safe, but risk loosing a few good shoots. whats it worth, thats what you have to ask yourself.
sorry for the cursing in all the last post, i talks abit like a sailor..yaarrrrr...(or pirate)
Photographer
RStephenT
Posts: 3105
Vacaville, California, US
Z dont know what ur talking about RS..** giggles** I'm sitting here trying to think of clever ways to start a conversation (or a word) with the letter Z... let me see...
You are right Zir! ROFLOL You got me! grin
Photographer
bman
Posts: 1126
Hollywood, Alabama, US
Posted by Shayuma:
Posted by Doug Swinskey:
so i get this "new model notification", from an online modeling community...i notice lovely young woman, with a rediculous monikor..
at this point..i break my own rule about personally contacting models..
like i said, she had a great look and in order to weed out a flake, i sent her a "refferal".
i complimented her look and made a few suggestions about her presentaion (monikor included)..over the course of several emails..she sent me some images and asked some more questions..
she appeared really interested...
so.. i am just about to "send button" an invite to my studio, when BAMM..i get this email telling me how unprofessioanl i am and what an asshole i am...how at first she wanted to work with me but now..no way..also was a invite to contact her in the future if i ever want to deal with a professional..
i have learned my lesson about directly contacting models..
:::::: a dazed doug :::::: You know what. You may have complimented her TOO much. I sometimes talk to photogs on here whose work I think is incredible. We talk back and forth, and then after a while (I dont know if they get very comfortable with me or what) but they just continue to go on and on and on (you get the idea haha) about my body or how sexy I am. Not saying that this is the case for you. But maybe you over emphasised her appearance to her.
Photographer
bman
Posts: 1126
Hollywood, Alabama, US
Dude,
who cares.
The initial contact is always a good test if you are going to connect with a model or not.
Nothing worse than a frigid model.
So,
if you're being yourself.....and she clams up or snaps back at you---well be glad you didn't shoot her.
A general rule of thumb: ALWAYS say LESS than MORE.
B
Model
Lapis
Posts: 8424
Chicago, Illinois, US
I hate it that just a few flakes sprinkled around seem to get into everyones hair. I have never been more flattered than when a photographer I admire contacts me, and when I am contacted by photographers I am not interested in...I do not lead them on.
However, I have heard from many photographer friends of mine different "model horror stories", and it just sounds like some models (and photographers just as well) get professional and personal lives mixed up. I am sorry that this happened to you Doug, as you seem quite professional to me. We all get sideswiped by psychos in this business. At least it happened BEFORE you set up a shoot--consider it a 'cheap out'. And, I know that the % of sketchiness on the internet is much higher than when working with agencies...however, if you really want to work with someone, I think you should contact them.
I do contact most of the photographers I work with...but hey, I get turned down too...some people do not know how to be professional about it, some do.
Photographer
Glamour Boulevard
Posts: 8628
Sacramento, California, US
Posted by Doug Swinskey:
so i get this "new model notification", from an online modeling community...i notice lovely young woman, with a rediculous monikor..
at this point..i break my own rule about personally contacting models..
like i said, she had a great look and in order to weed out a flake, i sent her a "refferal".
i complimented her look and made a few suggestions about her presentaion (monikor included)..over the course of several emails..she sent me some images and asked some more questions..
she appeared really interested...
so.. i am just about to "send button" an invite to my studio, when BAMM..i get this email telling me how unprofessioanl i am and what an asshole i am...how at first she wanted to work with me but now..no way..also was a invite to contact her in the future if i ever want to deal with a professional..
i have learned my lesson about directly contacting models..
:::::: a dazed doug :::::: Don`t let that stop you. You will get those types from time to time. For all you know the last email where you were blasted was either written or directed to be written by a jealous lover.
Photographer
SayCheeZ!
Posts: 20621
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
I have nothing to say.
The 26th post syndrome strikes again and I'm just assistin' with a bump.
Photographer
Michael Bell
Posts: 925
Anaheim, California, US
There are photogs who DON'T contact models? There are those who sit back and let models come to them? Even if I was a GREAT photog, I would never be like that. Do great models really have time to sit around and surf the net for photographers looking at a bunch of portfolios? I wouldnt think so. I will be working with 3 very well known models over the next few months and they told me they get over 500 emails A DAY. They dont even have time to read their emails let alone browsing websites for photogs, these kind of models really dont need to do that. Of course they would have never known about me if I didnt inquire about working with them, I dont understand the "lay back and let em come to me" method, you may be missing out on many great models.
|
