Forums > General Industry > GWC Conman take 2

Model

Chaotika

Posts: 413

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

So, check it out.. now he's claiming that I owe him money!

Dear Cynthia!
Hello and thanks for the quick reply. You must have been thinking of a different session than conducted by our staff. We pulled up your video file and the photographer was polite and courteous. You also agreed to complete this session without compensation.. In deference to your claim we have actually been attempting to contact you since your session. We wanted to forward your completed CD but your email was no longer active. Your current address has also changed and we have no record of you emailing or otherwise contacting us. Enclosed is a copy of the type of agreement signed by you. In this agreement as per Section III. you agreed to make payment of twenty percent {20%}as a referral fee for entering into a working relationship with any entity either referred or not referred by "Paris". Therefore all of your work since the signing of your agreement with "Pairs" is subject to the twenty percent {20%} referral fee. Therefore please provide a complete lists of all work assignments  you have completed since January 4, 2003 and the income you received from each opportunity. We are grateful that you decided to initiate contact with us and look forward to receiving your accrued payment in the next thirty days.
Thank you
Dr. Christopher
Las Vegas Art Gallery

Jun 29 05 02:53 am Link

Photographer

Michael Gundelach

Posts: 763

Hamburg, Hamburg, Germany

Since english is not my own language I might misunderstand this.

This guy wants a share of EVERY job you did since 01/2003????

He might be on drugs!

Jun 29 05 03:17 am Link

Photographer

- null -

Posts: 4576

Classic tactic of experienced scam artists is to confuse and frustrate you so you will leave him alone. You just grow so aggrivated by them that you stop going after them just so you don't have to deal with their annoying responses.

Experienced fella. He knows exactly what he's doing. Pretty clever. The whole point is NOT to get money from you. It's Psychology 101. It's to frustrate you to the point that you'll just walk away and leave him be. Manipulation at it's finest.

If you really want to get to him, you do NOT reply. You just take it all to your lawyer. He WANTS you to reply. He WANTS you to post on message boards and get mad. Because eventually, you'll decide it's not worth it, and give up.

You want to play this game?

The ONLY way you win is by NOT playing.

But the more annoyed you get, the more you vent and get irritated, the more likely it is that you will lose.

Jun 29 05 03:21 am Link

Photographer

Aaron_H

Posts: 1355

Ann Arbor, Michigan, US

Well you've got to give it to the guy for sheer chutzpa! haha, what a fucking clown.

Jun 29 05 04:01 am Link

Photographer

Stephen Bodi

Posts: 848

Levittown, New York, US

If he was in NY he would have gotten his ass kicked by now.

Jun 29 05 08:51 am Link

Photographer

SayCheeZ!

Posts: 20396

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

If I'm reading this the right way, the message that you just posted is from Dr. Chris demanding payment for modeling sessions that you've done with other photographers because he refered you.

Hmmmm.  Bad, bad boy.

In Nevada (and other states) the act of receiving money for obtaining employment for models or actors would require a talent agency license.   Unfortunately for Dr. Chris, neither he or any of his corporations are licensed as a talent agency!

Obtaining a talent agency license in NV is similar to obtaining one in California.  The agency must post a surety bond, cannot work out of a home or rented mailbox, and must submit to a background investigation (a Clark County sheriffs card must also be obtained). 

To put it short... Dr. Chris aint licensed for that sort of thing.  No sheriffs card on hand either (I checked those records).

Furthermore, even IF Dr. Chris was a licensed agency, his collection methods are also deemed illegal.  The law clearly states that the talent CANNOT PAY ANY FEES OR COMMISSIONS to the agent!

There are only 2 ways that a licensed agent is allowed to collect money for representing the talent. 

The first acceptable method is by having the client pay one check to the model, and a seperate check to the agent. 

The second acceptable (and usual) method is for the client to pay the agency, and the agency turn around and pay the model.  This method is the same way that most employment agencies operate as well.

Under no circumstances is the model allowed to pay any money to the agency. 

Jun 29 05 08:52 am Link

Model

theda

Posts: 21719

New York, New York, US

saycheeze is wise indeed. Dr. Chris is just digging himself in deeper.

Jun 29 05 09:20 am Link

Photographer

Mike Cummings

Posts: 5896

LAKE COMO, Florida, US

Posted by SayCheeZ!: 
If I'm reading this the right way, the message that you just posted is from Dr. Chris demanding payment for modeling sessions that you've done with other photographers because he refered you.

Hmmmm.  Bad, bad boy.

In Nevada (and other states) the act of receiving money for obtaining employment for models or actors would require a talent agency license.   Unfortunately for Dr. Chris, neither he or any of his corporations are licensed as a talent agency!

Obtaining a talent agency license in NV is similar to obtaining one in California.  The agency must post a surety bond, cannot work out of a home or rented mailbox, and must submit to a background investigation (a Clark County sheriffs card must also be obtained). 

To put it short... Dr. Chris aint licensed for that sort of thing.  No sheriffs card on hand either (I checked those records).

Furthermore, even IF Dr. Chris was a licensed agency, his collection methods are also deemed illegal.  The law clearly states that the talent CANNOT PAY ANY FEES OR COMMISSIONS to the agent!

There are only 2 ways that a licensed agent is allowed to collect money for representing the talent. 

The first acceptable method is by having the client pay one check to the model, and a seperate check to the agent. 

The second acceptable (and usual) method is for the client to pay the agency, and the agency turn around and pay the model.  This method is the same way that most employment agencies operate as well.

Under no circumstances is the model allowed to pay any money to the agency.   

If you are right she may be able to get with local authorities and work out a sting. She pays him the money and he gets busted on the spot.

Mike

Jun 29 05 09:25 am Link

Photographer

Mike Cummings

Posts: 5896

LAKE COMO, Florida, US

Another thing.. Video file? Did you know you were being taped? In Fla I know you have to be informed if there is audio taping even in a "public" place. You may want to look at that angle.

Mike

Jun 29 05 09:27 am Link

Model

Shayuma

Posts: 358

Cincinnati, Ohio, US

Yeahhhhhhhhhh take his ass to Judge Judy!

Jun 29 05 09:29 am Link

Model

veester

Posts: 346

Portland, Oregon, US

What a joker! That is ridiculous!

Jun 29 05 09:49 am Link

Photographer

Mystic 7

Posts: 180

Charlotte, North Carolina, US

Posted by Shayuma: 
Yeahhhhhhhhhh take his ass to Judge Judy!

I love the way she tricks defendants into admitting what she needs them to admit to. She's brilliant!

Hey Chaotika, I think it's time you DID judge photographers by their looks. And I think you owe a thank you to saycheez for all the detective work they put into helping you.

Jun 29 05 10:08 am Link

Photographer

Marvin Dockery

Posts: 2243

Alcoa, Tennessee, US

Posted by Chaotika: 
So, check it out.. now he's claiming that I owe him money!

Dear Cynthia!
Hello and thanks for the quick reply. You must have been thinking of a different session than conducted by our staff. We pulled up your video file and the photographer was polite and courteous. You also agreed to complete this session without compensation.. In deference to your claim we have actually been attempting to contact you since your session. We wanted to forward your completed CD but your email was no longer active. Your current address has also changed and we have no record of you emailing or otherwise contacting us. Enclosed is a copy of the type of agreement signed by you. In this agreement as per Section III. you agreed to make payment of twenty percent {20%}as a referral fee for entering into a working relationship with any entity either referred or not referred by "Paris". Therefore all of your work since the signing of your agreement with "Pairs" is subject to the twenty percent {20%} referral fee. Therefore please provide a complete lists of all work assignments  you have completed since January 4, 2003 and the income you received from each opportunity. We are grateful that you decided to initiate contact with us and look forward to receiving your accrued payment in the next thirty days.
Thank you
Dr. Christopher
Las Vegas Art Gallery

In some states a person acting as a personal manager, and not an agency, is allowed to collect fees, where a model has signed a management contract. There is a case, at this time, against a model for fees owed in KY. The model's manager did get her several jobs with a major swimsuit company, and she has refused to honor the contract.  She paid him his 20 percent share for the first jobs, but then stopped making later payments, and is still working for the company. The case is filed in Whitley County, KY. circut court.



Jun 29 05 10:56 am Link

Photographer

A. K. Southard

Posts: 166

Detroit, Michigan, US

Sounds like you have a couple of good avenues to go down.

You can handle this as Saycheez suggests, use the video voyer laws that most States have, or approach him with criminal charges as I suggested in my message to you.

If you take my suggestions, I wouldn't worry too much about the specifics of Nevada law, because his main concern is avoiding an investigation that will uncover all the other shit that he has done.

Jun 29 05 10:59 am Link

Photographer

4C 41 42

Posts: 11093

Nashville, Tennessee, US

This guy is probably making more money than I am.  This is a great learning experience.  Show us more.

Jun 29 05 11:00 am Link

Photographer

Monsante Bey

Posts: 2111

Columbus, Georgia, US

Methinks you are 100% done with him and his company, never to be heard from again.

Jun 29 05 11:04 am Link

Photographer

A. K. Southard

Posts: 166

Detroit, Michigan, US

Sounds like you could also threaten him with extortion charges, the other thing we talked about, violation of unauthorized video taping, operating an unlicensed business, and breach of contract.

Let him know that the ongoing and in depth investigation that your lawyers and the DA's office will be doing will uncover all the other shady things that he's done...Insert anything that you suspect him of and observe his responses...

Jun 29 05 11:07 am Link

Photographer

SayCheeZ!

Posts: 20396

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Posted by Shayuma: 
I think you owe a thank you to saycheez for all the detective work they put into helping you.

Chaotika and Ariane have both sent thanks in private correspondence.

Jun 29 05 11:26 am Link

Photographer

Jack D Trute

Posts: 4558

New York, New York, US

How can we judge unless we see the contract that was signed?

Jun 29 05 11:31 am Link

Model

theda

Posts: 21719

New York, New York, US

True. Maybe they did sign away their mortal souls.

Jun 29 05 11:33 am Link

Photographer

Jack D Trute

Posts: 4558

New York, New York, US

Just ask a recording artist from the 50's or 60's.

Jun 29 05 11:34 am Link

Photographer

XtremeArtists

Posts: 9122

'40s too

Jun 29 05 11:38 am Link

Photographer

Jack D Trute

Posts: 4558

New York, New York, US

Even today.

Jun 29 05 11:40 am Link

Photographer

XtremeArtists

Posts: 9122

Doesn't make any of it "right," just legal sometimes...

Jun 29 05 11:42 am Link

Photographer

4C 41 42

Posts: 11093

Nashville, Tennessee, US

Posted by theda: 
True. Maybe they did sign away their mortal souls.

I'd LOVE to see this contract.  Contracts written by scam artists are always a fun read.

Jun 29 05 11:43 am Link

Photographer

Jack D Trute

Posts: 4558

New York, New York, US

Posted by LarryB: 

Posted by theda: 
True. Maybe they did sign away their mortal souls.

I'd LOVE to see this contract.  Contracts written by scam artists are always a fun read.

It would be fair and educational of what to watch out for.

Fun to read also.

Jun 29 05 11:48 am Link

Photographer

Jack D Trute

Posts: 4558

New York, New York, US

Posted by XtremeArtists: 
Doesn't make any of it "right," just legal sometimes...

Bingo.

Jun 29 05 11:49 am Link

Photographer

XtremeArtists

Posts: 9122

Posted by Jack D Trute: 

Posted by XtremeArtists: 
Doesn't make any of it "right," just legal sometimes...

Bingo.

Exactly..you should see his contract with Old Macdonald

Jun 29 05 11:57 am Link

Photographer

Sophistocles

Posts: 21320

Seattle, Washington, US

I mentioned in the last thread that without seeing the contract, this is just an amusing read.

I have no doubt that this guy is playing fast and loose, presuming the emails that we've seen are authentic (and I have no reason to doubt them).

But the contract might very-well say what he says it does.

By way of reference, in the past 3 weeks I've had 5 models sign my release without reading it. It's shocked the hell out of me. They're lucky I'm an ethical person.

I'm actually adding a line to the release this afternoon, buried in the middle that says, "Model agrees to buy beer for photographer upon demand." to see who notices it.

Jun 29 05 12:15 pm Link

Model

BeccaNDSouth

Posts: 1670

Olympia, Washington, US

What I have noticed about this guy's reply, was that he said he had a contract "like" the one Chaotika signed. He did not state that he had THE contract that she signed on hand. Now, if there is a chance that you can prove that none of this nonsense in his letter was actually written in the contract, then you've got this guy in a corner. All of the crap he is telling you should be kept on record, and sent to the lawyers or legal aid. I would screw this guy over for all you can, since apparently he is trying to do the same to you. Just make sure that you have everything in written documentation, and that it backs your story, otherwise, he can spin it around on you.

Jun 29 05 12:25 pm Link

Photographer

Jack D Trute

Posts: 4558

New York, New York, US

One of the first lessons a good agency will teach a model is they should not be signing anything without checking with them first.(not practical for a non-agency model)

They should read things they sign in all parts of life.

Jun 29 05 12:31 pm Link

Model

A BRITT PRO-AM

Posts: 7840

CARDIFF BY THE SEA, California, US

is it ''pairs'' or ''paris''?

if you agreed to pay them anything in writing, even if small print, then you cant persue this honey...just dont         answer.

But is your copy the same or have they doctored it?

Is it true you moved or changed e-mail - if not they are making a bigger hole! Bastards.

Jun 29 05 01:17 pm Link

Photographer

Alluring Exposures

Posts: 11399

Casa Grande, Arizona, US

I'd love to see the contract too. I'm pretty good at finding holes in them...

Posted by LarryB: 

Posted by theda: 
True. Maybe they did sign away their mortal souls.

I'd LOVE to see this contract.  Contracts written by scam artists are always a fun read.

Jun 29 05 01:18 pm Link

Photographer

Halcyon 7174 NYC

Posts: 20109

New York, New York, US

Posted by Eric Muss-Barnes: 
The ONLY way you win is by NOT playing.

Joshua is right, send in the suits. Get one of those ambulance chasers that will work for a share of the flesh they rip out of the creep.


*yes, I know that was Eric, Joshua was a movie reference.

Jun 29 05 02:37 pm Link

Photographer

Rick Edwards

Posts: 6184

Wilmington, Delaware, US

Dear Dr. Christopher,

GO FUCK YOURSELF!
If I was as low as you, I'd have a hard time getting up on all fours and wiping all the dog shit off of my head....

there, I feel better now, and I don't even know this bottom feeder (geeez, I hope I didn't offend any crabs or other bottom feeders)

sorry to YELL

Jun 29 05 07:00 pm Link

Model

Pinky

Posts: 138

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US

Posted by Chris Ambler: 
I mentioned in the last thread that without seeing the contract, this is just an amusing read.

I have no doubt that this guy is playing fast and loose, presuming the emails that we've seen are authentic (and I have no reason to doubt them).

But the contract might very-well say what he says it does.

By way of reference, in the past 3 weeks I've had 5 models sign my release without reading it. It's shocked the hell out of me. They're lucky I'm an ethical person.

I'm actually adding a line to the release this afternoon, buried in the middle that says, "Model agrees to buy beer for photographer upon demand." to see who notices it.

I read everything I sign.  If I have questions, I ask.  If I see something that isn't there that should be upon the terms the phtographer and I agreed, I have the photographer write it in.  I'm interested in seeing this contract now.

Video taping (and audio taping) without consent in against the law.  May have something to go on that one.

Jun 29 05 07:49 pm Link

Photographer

Halcyon 7174 NYC

Posts: 20109

New York, New York, US

Posted by Pinky: 
Video taping (and audio taping) without consent in against the law.  May have something to go on that one.

I think that is state by state.

Jun 29 05 08:02 pm Link

Model

Ever Art

Posts: 1125

Chicago, Illinois, US

Ok everybody..here's what happened. We replied to his ad in the Vegas weekly, shot with him, and he never gave copies of the contracts signed. I shot at his house, with his wife present, and I asked for copies before leaving but his "copy machine" was not working and he promised to mail me copies. Numerous phone calls and emails were ignored. The deal was to pose for two sessions and receive $1500 payment and one portrait. He said the photos were to be shown to elite clientele, they choose a photo and commission a portrait and after the portraits were done, we'd get one and also get paid. I thought it was a cool idea.....little did I know it was a scam.

I have been modeling for 5 1/2 years now and I am embarassed that I fell for this scheme and this guy would get away with manipulating women for over 6 years!  Its got to stop, I cant take the harassing emails, the threats, the depression anymore.  I did nothing to deserve this nor did the other 3 models.

After I emailed him saying I can legally subpoena my original documents via the court, he then suddenly altered the contracts he is now giving out.

Jun 30 05 12:52 am Link

Model

Ever Art

Posts: 1125

Chicago, Illinois, US

He was using this release from 7-24-02 mentioning Paris,Paris (which has no licence)  I confronted him about the fact he has no business license for Paris,Paris
and as of May 5th, he changed the Modeling Release to another Agency name United States Affiliated Art Gallery  (see next)

File name: A._Modeling_Release_form__revised_7.24.02_.doc | File type: application/msword 

ParisParis in conjunction with Masterpiece Art/Studios

A Division of Zenity Foundation, Inc

[email protected]

Agency Agreement and Modeling Release

This agreement entered into this _________________ day of 2005, by and between __________________________________________a model/actor hereinafter referred to as "model" and ParisParis, Ltd. Here in after referred to a "Paris." The purpose of this agreement is to set the terms and conditions of introduction to any agency, advertising agency, magazine, advertiser, studio, corporation, broadcasting company, radio station, or any other firm hereinafter referred to as "Entity" to contract with or employ which "Paris" intends to introduce "Model" as a client for employment contracting either verbally or in writing. This agreement applies to interviews, trips to interview, contracts or employment offers conveyed either verbally or in writing which result directly or indirectly from identification or introduction. 



"Paris" agrees to make all reasonable efforts to identity and present "Model" for interviews to any "Entity" meeting "Models" predetermined search criteria. "Model" agrees to interview with "Entity" within thirty {30} days of referral and to cooperate fully with "Paris." "Model" agrees to notify "Paris" within twenty four {24} hours of offer of interview or in the case of completion of interview, if an offer of employment or a contract offer has been extended by "Entity" and if offer will be accepted by "Model."
"Paris" agrees to negotiate with "Entity" to pay all interview expenses such as air fare, hotels, car rental, taxis, meals and any other misc. interview expenses or fees. "Paris" agrees to negotiate the terms and conditions of any and all contracts and to keep "Model" informed of negotiations and progress of all contractual negotiations. "Paris" agrees to recommend to "Model" whether to accept or decline each offer of contract by each "Entity." "Model" is under no obligation to accept any interview with any "Entity" that will not pay expenses. However "Model" may elect to pay his or her expenses if the "Model" perceives or believes that the opportunity or interview with "Entity" is to the advantage of the "Model"
III. "Model" agrees that an agency fee is due and payable if "Model" accepts employment, signs  contract or enters into a working relationship with any "Entity" either referred by "Paris" or not referred by "Paris."

IV. "Model" agrees that the agency fee shall be twenty percent or twenty points {20} of the gross

earnings per assignment or referral. Furthermore "Model" agrees that "Entity" shall pay all earnings directly to "Paris" and shall make payment in United States currency. "Paris" will make payment to "Model" within ten {10} days of bank clearance of "Entity" proceeds.

V.  "Model" certifies by listing date of birth ___/___/____ that "Model" is at least eighteen {18} years  of age.

"Model" agrees that all photography, video, internet or web site productions, CD-ROM and any

other creations or re-creations shall become the property of " Paris". However "Paris" will not release any materials for publication, print or video to any "Entity" other than to "Paris" without the expressed verbal or written consent of "Model."

VI.  This contract will be for a period of sixty months {60} and may be extended at any time by "Model" Non renewal of this contract shall have no effect on residual income to "Paris" for earnings generated during this contract.

VII. I agree to the terms and conditions by affixing my signature below.



"Model"________________________________ Date_____________________________

Jun 30 05 12:56 am Link

Model

Ever Art

Posts: 1125

Chicago, Illinois, US

THIS IS THE NEW CONTRACT HE'S USING - 2005

File name: A._Modeling_Release_form__05.05.24_revised_.doc | File type: application/msword
   

United States Affiliated Art Galleries in conjunction with Masterpiece and Las Vegas Art/Studios

A Division of Zenity Foundation, Inc

[email protected]

Agency Agreement and Modeling Release

This agreement entered into this _________________ day of 2005, by and between __________________________________________a model/actor hereinafter referred to as "model" and United States Affiliated Art Galleries, Ltd. Here in after referred to a "USAG." The purpose of this agreement is to set the terms and conditions of introduction to any agency, advertising agency, magazine, advertiser, studio, corporation, broadcasting company, radio station, or any other firm hereinafter referred to as "Entity" to contract with or employ which "USAG" intends to introduce "Model" as a client for employment contracting either verbally or in writing. This agreement applies to interviews, trips to interview, contracts or employment offers conveyed either verbally or in writing which result directly or indirectly from identification or introduction. 



"USAG" agrees to make all reasonable efforts to identity and present "Model" for interviews to any "Entity" meeting "Models" predetermined search criteria. "Model" agrees to interview with "Entity" within thirty {30} days of referral and to cooperate fully with "USAG." "Model" agrees to notify "USAG" within twenty four {24} hours of offer of interview or in the case of completion of interview, if an offer of employment or a contract offer has been extended by "Entity" and if offer will be accepted by "Model."
"USAG" agrees to negotiate with "Entity" to pay all interview expenses such as air fare, hotels, car
rental, taxis, meals and any other misc. interview expenses or fees. "USAG" agrees to negotiate the terms and conditions of any and all contracts and to keep "Model" informed of negotiations and progress of all contractual negotiations. "USAG" agrees to recommend to "Model" whether to accept or decline each offer of contract by each "Entity." "Model" is under no obligation to accept any interview with any "Entity" that will not pay expenses. However "Model" may elect to pay his or her expenses if the "Model" perceives or believes that the opportunity or interview with "Entity" is to the advantage of the "Model"

III. "Model" agrees that an agency fee is due and payable if "Model" accepts employment, signs

contract or enters into a working relationship with any "Entity" either referred by "USAG" or not referred by "USAG."

IV. "Model" agrees that the agency fee shall be twenty percent or twenty points {20} of the grossearnings per assignment or referral. Furthermore "Model" agrees that "Entity" shall pay all earnings directly to "USAG" and shall make payment in United States currency. "USAG" will make payment to "Model" within ten {10} days of bank clearance of "Entity" proceeds.

V.  "Model" certifies by listing date of birth ___/___/____ that "Model" is at least eighteen {18} years  of age.

"Model" agrees that all photography, video, internet or web site productions, CD-ROM and any

other creations or re-creations shall become the property of "USAG". However "USAG" will not release any materials for publication, print or video to any "Entity" other than to "USAG" without the expressed verbal or written consent of "Model."

VI.  This contract will be for a period of sixty months {60} and may be extended at any time by "Model" Non renewal of this contract shall have no effect on residual income to "USAG" for earnings generated during this contract.

VII. I agree to the terms and conditions by affixing my signature below.



"Model"________________________________ Date_____________________________

Jun 30 05 01:00 am Link