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Desperately Seeking Opinions of Fellow Female Photographers
ummm mamiya, love that camera, using a RZ67,a mamiya 7 and soon a 5X4, my favorite lens would be the 180 mm Take care Jul 01 05 03:11 pm Link Posted by Elin: Lol. If one looks at my portfolio you can see lots of chest and butt as well. Though I suspect what lays behind my images might be different from a male perspective. Myself, I ABSOLUTELY HAVE NO problem portraying the female body in a sensual, erotic, or even sexual way. I think women, and their bodies can be all of it. For me though it's about power and context. What I notice in the tits and ass photography of some guys, is that's ALL they see in their model. She's a live version of some anatomical sex doll, with living skin to complete the fantasy. Not to use an overdone analogy but some guys display their models like she's a slab of meat. Even though I'm not a vegetarian I have no interest in shooting slabs of meat. I agree with you, I have nudity in my portfolio as well, I just meant that I FOCUS on the eyes (or whatever the meaning of the photo is) and not their butts or tits. I've seen so many photos of girls with the tits in the center of the photo and their heads almost cropped of... All those photos were taken by straight men and bisexual women, as far as I know (I've seen them on a model/photography community in Sweden were I "know" the photographers/GWC's). Jul 01 05 03:14 pm Link Posted by Star: Yes, I think it would defeat the purpose. The point was to make models comfortable. I doubt any models would feel comfortable around me while I dressed like Brian Warner's little Marilyn Manson persona. Jul 01 05 03:22 pm Link Posted by Elin Striga: Posted by Elin: Lol. If one looks at my portfolio you can see lots of chest and butt as well. Though I suspect what lays behind my images might be different from a male perspective. Myself, I ABSOLUTELY HAVE NO problem portraying the female body in a sensual, erotic, or even sexual way. I think women, and their bodies can be all of it. For me though it's about power and context. What I notice in the tits and ass photography of some guys, is that's ALL they see in their model. She's a live version of some anatomical sex doll, with living skin to complete the fantasy. Not to use an overdone analogy but some guys display their models like she's a slab of meat. Even though I'm not a vegetarian I have no interest in shooting slabs of meat. I agree with you, I have nudity in my portfolio as well, I just meant that I FOCUS on the eyes (or whatever the meaning of the photo is) and not their butts or tits. I've seen so many photos of girls with the tits in the center of the photo and their heads almost cropped of... All those photos were taken by straight men and bisexual women, as far as I know (I've seen them on a model/photography community in Sweden were I "know" the photographers/GWC's). Ouch!!! Jul 01 05 03:59 pm Link Alex, Again, I concur that not nearly as many of those roles are portrayed as we would hope for them to someday be; however, sites like Model Mayhem give us women a voice and a way to network. If you've glanced through my website, you'll see that I am attempting to delve into the expression of those roles, as have most of the other female photogs featured not only in this forum, but in this site. Interestingly, quite a few of us have found that there is much to learn about feminism and the aspects of womanhood (maiden, mother, crone) in fairy tales...believe it or not ;c). I'm constantly fascinated by how tales of old can be re-invented. Jul 01 05 05:02 pm Link Posted by alexwh: I don't think model mayhem IS the site for that kind of work. That's not to say that some of the women photographers here don't explore those kind of subjects or roles, or that other female photographers don't, but to me mayhem tends to be very fashion, glamour driven. (it's not populated by the connie imbodens and sally galls). Posted by alexwh: What is a woman's point of view? There are a number of women on this site and even from the limited responses to the question, you can see a number of us have different views. Can you clarify what you mean? Posted by alexwh: I don't understand your point. Sally Mann was targeted by a number of the morals police as nothing better than a child pornographer. The fact that the art community told the neofacists to take a hike is a good thing, I think. Posted by alexwh: Are you talking about all those models with their asses up in the air shots? Jul 01 05 05:05 pm Link Yes about the asses in the air. I suggest (calmly and gently) that all of you look up Jennifer Montgomery and her experimental movie called Art for Teachers of Children. This disturbing movie is about her experience with Jock Sturges when she was in a finishing school and Sturges was a teacher there. It is because of Montgomery that Sturges did not end up in jail when the FBI were after him. I am in this particular forum because I find you women photographers (and specially that pair from Texas) to be articulate, interesting and fun. Hook'em horns! Jul 01 05 05:18 pm Link Hey, y'all, (from one of those Texan women ;c), I've agreed with basically everything Kim's said except that this isn't a place for women to explore those various roles. It is PRECISELY the place...and a hell of a lot more so than OMP. I think anywhere that you can commune with other artists, despite our differences, is the place to dig into those aspects. Jul 01 05 05:24 pm Link Posted by alexwh: I think I understand what you're saying and in part I agree. I definately like it when a photographer, male or female, gives consideration to their shot and what it mean beyond composition and commerce. That being said though, a woman-driven photo might very well be about bloody hands. Some women kill. Some women have blood on their hands in other ways, perhaps they are the head of a corporation that makes weapony, etc. Maybe the woman in a bloody bathtub is having one hell of a menstrual cycle. I don't think that a woman driven shot has to be synonymous with romantic or soft. Posted by alexwh: Yeah, you might want to get out more. Well, actually I can't stand those clumpy white ho' high heels, those really bug me. And wearing high heels? Blows. Posted by alexwh: These are good questions and even though we might disagree on particulars, it's cool you are asking. Jul 01 05 05:41 pm Link Yes Moonbreath this is a place to start unlike in OMP. Jul 01 05 05:47 pm Link Sorry in mentioning the articulate Texans I forgot he Californian! Jul 01 05 05:50 pm Link Posted by Moonsbreath: yeah, I guess the californian's are chopped liver! Posted by Moonsbreath: Let me try and clarify.... the site is called model mayhem. And MOST of the work here has models in it. In other words, you don't have photojournalism (nan goldin), and you don't have a lot of non-model fine art depicitions. To the extent that roles can be explored by shots involving models, I think it works. Better than OMP? Uh yeah, at this point anything is better than OMP, but MM works on its own. And the folks who conceptualized and brought it into fruition deserve props! Posted by Moonsbreath: HELL yes! The ability to network, tag, comment, share freely is what makes mayhem so appealing. Jul 01 05 05:56 pm Link I have noticed that some of the fetish photographers and models ( both of the female kind) are pretty inventive but there seems to be a clear division here between those that do that kind of work and those that have rear ends up in the air on a beach with a sunset behind. It would be neat to see some cross talk and comparison. Jul 01 05 06:02 pm Link I even feel uncomfortable in posting photos of my granddaughter Rebecca here. These pictures used to bother my wife Rosemary until I explained that the reason they bothered her is that Rebecca was acting out adult parts and was not trying to be cutsy as directed by other photographers. Still I find this bathing shoot pic not quite right. Part of the reason is that the light of the swimming pool place was very blue and the Ektachrome in my 35mm camera (I like to use it lots with Rebecca and her sister Lauren). It's one of those lucky shots that you know you have once you have pressed the shutter. Jul 01 05 06:06 pm Link First of all, Californians rock, as well as Canadians. ;c)... I, like you, Kim, believe that women in shots involving blood can symbolize many different things. Blood doesn't ony represent violence, as we all know. It can represent a life force, and the portrayal of bleeding can represent the "letting" of emotional pain. "Blood" can create POWERFUL imagery. And yes, it is MODEL Mayhem, but without people like you and I, those models wouldn't have a venue for expression and pursuit of recognition...and for some, the hope of monetary compensation. So we're vital to the whole scheme. I know I'm stating the obvious, but stating it nonetheless. Now I'm going to throw in a monkey wrench. I've been chatting with a male model from Austin (Hook 'em Horns, indeed!), and he said this: "I would have no problem working with a female photog. All I have worked with are male photogs, and I just sometimes feel like I am being taken advantage of. I have no problem working for male photogs, be them gay or straight, but i just feel like I am being used more by them than anything. Past experience I guess. but yeah, i would love to shoot with a female model, i think they would have something great to offer me in the artistic arena, not just in the 'move your leg a little to the left...'sorta thing." (He said I could quote him, btw.) What's the take on this perspective? Even male models can feel uncomfortable with male photographers. Interesting. Jul 01 05 06:08 pm Link This may be long but I give this to my students and my models. The Nude Portrait (II) Alex Waterhouse-Hayward Model Protocol About 23 years ago I photographed around 9 exotic dancers dressed as London Bobbies (cops). The resulting photograph was framed and was placed inside the Cecil Hotel. It may still be there next to the pool table. The photo imitated a large mural/painting of 9 Bobbies that at the time graced the wall of the hotel. When the women arrived to the warehouse where I took the pictures (a white brick wall was needed) they asked me where they could change. I had set up an area with a large sheet where they could do this. My assistant commented, âWhy would they need a place to change. They are strippers, arenât they? â It is obvious that my assistant was horribly wrong and no further explanation is needed. But some of us, particularly, when we are behind the camera forget that the person who is our photographic subject is a person, and to be repetitive, a human being. I am sure that my assistant had objectified the exotic dancers and it never occurred to him that they were women who valued their modesty and privacy when not working at their job. A variant of being aware that our subject is a person should be our ability to put ourselves in their position. While we may not want to pose now or in the future either clothed or unclothed we should think, âWould I do this?â? âWould I do it like this?â? Why am I telling the model to relax? Could I do it (relax) if I were facing that camera and that big soft box?â? Models, even very good models cannot predict what a photographer may want. They can do this if they have worked with you before. You cannot expect them to do something while you wait to snap your shutter unless you give them the proper and courteous indication. Saying, âPleaseâ?, and, âThank you, âis appreciated. If you cannot verbally explain the pose you want, you can step in (donât touch!) and show the model how. My advice is to watch your models when they are relaxing during their rest periods as they will do things that come naturally. You should not only provide your model for an area to change where they have privacy but you should also expect them to clothe themselves (there are a few that donât!) when they are not posing for you. A cooling fan on hot days and a heater on cold days is most necessary. An area where the model has a mirror and a stool with table where they can apply makeup is nice to have. It is my personal rule that I never touch my models, particularly when they are unclothed. The exception can be a stray hair that may cover an eye and I will sometimes use my pinky finger to move it out of the way. Looking at your model, when not through the camera, should not be an obvious stare. Learn the way doctors do it. You look at them at eye level. Until you know your model well and you know about their sense of humour, or lack of it, you should never make any jokes about their body. When I photograph anybody, clothed or unclothed, I donât point out their physical demerits. If their face is too wide I narrow it with lighting. You donât say, âYou have a chubby face.â? If the model has stretch marks you find angles where they donât show. Unless your model wants you to document their body as it is (this rarely happens) it is your duty to make them look as good as you can and not blame your lack of lighting skills, bad equipment, or their body for your unsatisfactory picture. Unless you are really very good with PhotoShop, a Polaroid or the image on your screen will never look that much better. In our class we should take as perfect a picture seconds before we press that shutter, be it film or digital. Again I want to stress that you must respect a modelâs privacy in the way you may show the pictures that you have taken. They should be seen only in your hard copy (as in one of those black books with plastic sleeves) and none of your photos should be posted on any web page be it a personal one or another type. If you wish to do this you must get permission in writing from your model. Any model, and particularly the unclothed one, is in a vulnerable position when they face your camera. They trust you. Some models (if not most) will object to showing parts of their anatomy that they deem to be extremely private. When they pose for you, you may be in a situation to be able to photograph what the model does not want to show. It is your duty to move them until the pose is a correct one. In the end it is more difficult to not show the external sexual organs of a male model. Male models will have different requests to that of female models. In our class sessions we will bring this up. In your own sessions, out of school with other models or friends, you should always bring up this sensitive area before you begin to shoot. I always prefer to shoot without any kind of music, unless my model specifically requests it. I like to work in silence. The idea that the young thing in a bikini will remove her clothes, just because you offered her wine and play loud heavy metal music, only works on planet Jupiter. From the beginning you tell your model where the bathroom is and you should have plenty of bottled water. Alcohol always shows up on your modelâs face and pot makes their eyes go red. And the last, often overlooked, recommendation is that models like to be given positive feedback on how they look in front of your camera and how they are taking to your instructions. Give them plenty of this stuff. Jul 01 05 06:15 pm Link Thank you for sharing that, Alex. It is eloquent, informative, respectful...and I'm sure we can all learn from it. I wish I could model for you :c( (yeh, I model, too). Someday I'm gonna make it to Canada. Jul 01 05 07:31 pm Link With all the talk of models of different sexes feeling comfortable working with a male or a female photographer I think that ultimately what is important (read the model protocol above) is how the photographer deals and behaves with the model. Not talked about much here is the idea (I have been told since I don't model) of the thrill of posing for a photographer. Since the usual deal here in Mayhem is of the photographer who is a male and the model a woman (and both are straight) there has to be some sexual tension in the photographic session. I think that if this tension is chanelled correctly good photographs will be the result. Jul 01 05 08:09 pm Link Wow this topic has really taken off!!...anyways..as far as the "glamour" versus "fetish" oh yes there is a clear line between the two.,and I doubt we will ever really see that line blurred.Because with "glamour" its about making the women so sexy that its almost but not porn.To arouse a certain feeling from the person be it male or female that is looking at the image. With feitish..lol..its just plain ol creativity.Lets see what position we can tie him/her up in this time and make it look good..ok..make it blk and white and add some awesomely creative lighting and BAM!!!..art.Dont get me wrong I love both styles,fetish a lil more than glamour.Glamour tends to be a lil more froo froo than I like,but I dont think that line will ever be blurred.Now when it comes to females photogs who shoot fetish..its RARE!.and when you do find a female photog who does its like finding a rare jewel because you have the hardcore nature of the fetish photo with the soft femme touches of a woman to make the edges smooth out a little bit.But all in all its another aspect of photography that is male dominated that most female photographers will not venture. Jul 02 05 06:39 pm Link |
