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There's no money in photography
People often like to paint a bleak picture of photography, often exclaiming that there's little to no money in it... "If you want a modest lifestyle, go to business school, if you want to be a photographer, be prepared to sacrafice that lifestyle", that's something I read recently. Anyway, my point is, these bleak summaries of photography I often find misleading, at best. If you want to shoot advertising and are good at it, you can make a fortune, if you want to be an art photographer and you're good at it, you can make more than the best advertising photographer would ever dream of. The point is, painting all of photography with this "you'll not make any money" is a rather silly and shows quite a misunderstanding and ignorance of the various sub-catagories of photography. Sure, if you want to shoot family portraits in a smallish town, you'll be lucky to make more than average income. Discuss. Dec 18 08 08:33 am Link The way I see it, people that don't try to make money in what they want to make money from; don't make money - period.  Dec 18 08 08:36 am Link True dat! Dec 18 08 08:36 am Link NSE Films wrote: The above is true, but only for a relative handful of photographers. Sure, Steven Meisel, Patrick DeMarchelier and others are multi-millionaires, but their earnings are hardly representative of the industry. The bottom line is that if you want to make a lot of money, there are much more lucrative professions to consider. The only valid reason to make photography a career choice is because one loves taking photos. Dec 18 08 08:38 am Link When talking money, you have to have a certain level. To reach that certain level, you should not consider money. Dec 18 08 08:44 am Link I too hear all the "you'll starve as a photographer" stories. As someone who is just starting to try and actually make a living at photography, I have to say that so far that has been my experience. Lots of competition, only a finite amount of clients. In addition to the grim picture that often gets painted I hear stories like what you are describing - people making fortunes in advertising or art, even architectural photography. Having said that, since I am new to all this I can't really apply any experience to be able to determine which picture is the correct one. I don't really have the knowledge yet to apply to important things like marketing, networking, etc. in this industry, so I don't really know if there is any money to be made, or where to go or what to do to start making it! I shoot weddings and portraits and all that fun stuff, as well as my own personal art projects, but how to get to the "big time" eludes me, especially in such a seemingly saturated market. How does one become the next Helmut Newton, or the next big advertising photographer? In most businesses WHO you know is often more important than WHAT you know, and this seems to be the case in photography as well (especially observing the wide range of skill levels of successful photographers). Making the right connection seems to be the best way to move ahead, but the real question is, HOW do you make those connections? Dec 18 08 08:48 am Link Alexander Image wrote: And how do you know you have reached that level? Dec 18 08 08:51 am Link NSE Films wrote: good is one thing ... but have to understand marketing; all the talent in the world won't get you there alone. Dec 18 08 08:52 am Link NSE Films wrote: I have found that having a solid background in business and marketing has helped my photography business on an unprecedented level. Having a firm grip of your market share and understanding your clients wants and needs is of the utmost importance. Dec 18 08 08:56 am Link I've recently purchased a 2000 sq. ft. downtown building with my earnings from photography. Not kidding. We're not all starving. It's not a matter of which occupation you've chosen to pursue, it's a matter of how hard you're willing to work at it to becomes successful. Dec 18 08 08:56 am Link Money!! What's that ? Recently a model posted (to a group) that she wanted headshots for herself and her daughters. I replied with a very reasonable rate! Which she refused. Come to find out she shot with another photographer (a friend of mine) FOR FREE! Whatever..... So.. how do you compete with those who give away their time! Yeah.. I know... you gotta become a Known Entity with a good/popular business expect anyone to pay you! Problem is, how do you get there! If you ain't full-time at this business, it's gonna be tough to make "real" money at it. Just my .00045 cents worth Dec 18 08 08:57 am Link Vector 38 wrote: The problem is marketing based on personâs skills. If only having marketing, not skills, it is cheating, not marketing. Dec 18 08 09:00 am Link Artists all through history have been known to go hungry for the sake of their art. I've been there  Dec 18 08 09:04 am Link the truth is somewhere beetween. There are a lot of photographers they don`t understand marketing but they`re very good. Some are outside in the market, they are bad, using cheap technology. Pics are a desaster, but they earn a lot of money. The resume: I think beeing good in marketing, having good skills and last but not least a good network and connections, than you earn like steven Meisel or Christian Schuller or Richard Avedon (Ok he died a few weeks ago). Dec 18 08 09:15 am Link Those that can't want to convince you that you can't either. Dec 18 08 09:18 am Link Oak Grove Photography wrote: If somebody wants professional pictures, they will pay for them. If they don't care, then you obviously can't compete with that. If your work is good enough, people will pay for it. Dec 18 08 09:21 am Link I know how you feel... Im young, so noone takes me serious.. but I do get photoshoots and people actually pay for my work. I mean I work at my dad's office so I dont make money off of photography completly. Its hard.. even if people love your work and respect it, they want free.. they wanna pay someone cheap or nothing at all for crappy photos.. Its really hard.. but I guess word of mouth and networking works and people call.. Dec 18 08 09:25 am Link This is something i'm really debating. Its not a matter of if I want to do photography (college starts next year) but if I feel I will really be successful. I understand that its all about marketing, and yes sometimes it does bother me that some really bad photographers make it big just because of that. But its true of any profession. Dec 18 08 09:26 am Link Making it "big time" is always that elusive goal many seek but few attain. If that is your singular drive then I'd say be prepared to eat a lot of Ramen before you get there, if ever. I have found that achieving goals can mean a lot of different things. At one time my goal was to get paid for taking photos. That took me a few years but I got there. Having talent helps but it's not all. I was in the right place, at the right time and met the right person. I'd say networking was at least half of achieving my first goal, a paycheck! As I got older my goals changed. I wanted to put down roots, establish myself in my own business. I did that! I found a nice "small town" and opened my own studio. Again, my goal was to make it a success. I did that too! Networking and now, marketing was added to my growing skills along with a healthy shot of business courses. Luckily due to my proximity to NYC and Philly I drew from both markets by word of mouth. My skills were on par with those "big city guys" for less money, ie; cheaper overhead. You would be surprised how many clients felt the the two hour drive was well worth their time. Yet, I did what I wanted and that was to be the "small town" photographer. I found being a big fish in a small pond had it's distinct advantages. Later in life I began looking forward to retirement, early, if possible! I did that too! So I can look back and when I read threads such as "no money in photography" I find them amusing since all my life I found money in what others considered a hobby. There still is money to be made. Granted the amounts might have decreased significantly due to economic conditions but talent and knowing your craft will always bring in money. You may have to re-organize your thinking, find a niche market but it's there and all you have to do is dip your fingers into the pie and pull it out. Dec 18 08 09:28 am Link You know what some of the best art shooters do for a living? They teach. Talk to some of those who used to shoot for Sears, Wards or any of the catalog houses. Ask them how their doing. Have a chat with some of the dudes that have seen their ad revenues reduced because magazines aren't paying the same rates and have cut back on advertising overall. Yes a few at the top and upper middle do well but look to the Dept. of labor for clues. The average photographer makes well under $30,000 a year. Amazing because based on most here you'd think they make millions but I suspect they aren't being truthful. Dec 18 08 09:34 am Link That is true a business owner is not always a technical guy, but he have to know marketing and he have to depend on other people. When you know marketing, you would have other problems, and probably you would regret you should spend some time to learn something. Someone can be a boss, and someone cannot, just find a best way suit to you. Dec 18 08 09:35 am Link you want to make money.. then understand it really is how you market your skills..you can make money and I mean a lot if you market your self period......... Dec 18 08 09:41 am Link The bottom line is that the median income for photography is low. If a personal goal of yours is to amass large quantities of wealth, then you would be ill advised to attempt to accomplish this goal via a photography profession. There are many factors as to why this is true; one of the biggest is the fact that there is no 'barrier' to entering a career in photography. Basically anyone can buy a camera and become a photographer (although probably not a very good one). Contrast this to the other professions such as an attorney or a doctor. There are numerous barriers which take years to overcome, not to mention a financial investment, and do a very good job of limiting the number of people able to practice these professions, and less people able to provide the service means that the demand and cost for such a service rises. With no 'barrier' to limit the number of people practicing, there will always be more photographers then lawyers or doctors, and therefore the median income will always be lower. While it is possible to achieve fame and fortune via photography, I opine that a person that is able to do so, is either so incredibly talented or intelligent, that they would have no problem doing the same via another profession or path, and the going would probably be easier for them. Dec 18 08 09:57 am Link I've found that joining a local business networking group can really help kick-start a photography business. One of the most successful business networking models I've heard of is Business Networking International (BNI). There are local chapters worldwide. The model is that each chapter has a variety of businesses -- one business category in each chapter. So you might have a carpenter, a florist, a real estate agent, a wedding planner, etc. You have no competition in your chapter. Then, each member of the chapter gets referrals for the other members. My chapter has over 40 members -- they are my sales-force, and also some of my best customers. http://www.bni.com/ Dec 18 08 10:02 am Link Shane Kislack wrote: That about sums it up. there is money to be made it just dont come looking for you you must go get it. Dec 18 08 10:10 am Link Money isn't everything. The best things in life are not things. Merry Christmas, Click Hamilton Dec 18 08 10:13 am Link Shane Kislack wrote: Astute observation. It applies to many things. Dec 18 08 10:17 am Link if you build it... they will come..... Dec 18 08 10:38 am Link Ok.........Be a Model; shoot nude and/or topless and MAKE ALL THE MONEY YOU WANT. Models, rule; sorry Photogs. Merry Christmas Dec 18 08 10:41 am Link Yupper!!! Dec 18 08 10:43 am Link I think if you go into photography to make bags of money you may be thinking with the wrong side of your brain. Stick to creating art with the lens and always strive to get better and the money will follow Dec 18 08 10:45 am Link NSE Films wrote: I'm pretty sure that the top art photographers are not making more than the top advertising photographers. Dec 18 08 10:48 am Link I'm gonna say that for the last two years I worked over 100 hours a week trying to make money at this. I have had success but not in the ways of income. As everyone kept telling me I was going to make it big, I kept pushing harder at it. Now two years later I'm being to change paths and go back to what my degree is in. Why, cause as mentioned in this post, it's a lot about the right place at the right time or who you know and of course marketing. There is a ton of talent but only a few selected. And now with the boom of the digital camera, it's making it even harder to get noticed through the crowd. It's just my 2 cents but all the guys who I've talked to who have made a career and income to support living have all have some fortunate luck to some degree. I even have a couple buddies of mine who are making 6 figures a year and laugh cause they think mine and a lot of work on here is better then theirs but again.... Dec 18 08 10:53 am Link Eric Simard wrote: Good! I looked at your stock photo pages. How successful is that for you? Care to share what percentage of your gross income derives from them? Dec 18 08 11:03 am Link Frank McAdam wrote: Photography, like some other professions, has a long tail, meaning the top earners are very well paid, but the median (50% earning more, 50% earning less) income is somewhat medium-low, even if you only count the full-timers. Dec 18 08 11:09 am Link MC Photo wrote: I bookmarked a couple of years ago an Australian landscape photographer who has a 50 person company processing and marketing and selling his work. He sells his stuff in multiple ways: prints, stock, greeting cards, posters, and much more. They showed his drum scanning operation, his printing operation, etc. Dec 18 08 11:18 am Link MC Photo wrote: Top art photographers make more few pictures than the top advertising photographers, and one picture of the top art photographers makes more money than one picture of the top advertising photographers. But please notice a top advertising photographer is more likely also one of top art photographers. Dec 18 08 11:21 am Link Let those people say those things... They'll be so busy not making money in photography that there will be more for the rest of us! Your lifestyle will often have to change according to your career, despite whatever it may be. There are a lot of ways to make money off of photography, anyone who has that much trouble isn't really trying. Dec 18 08 11:22 am Link Vector 38 wrote: So totally true!! I see photographers on here who shoot far superior photos for free on weekends(by choice or because thats the understanding models get when they open a page and all the photographers are hitting them up for TF shoots, so they think "this is the way it is") Dec 18 08 11:30 am Link Click Hamilton wrote: It's pretty high on the list when you've got car payments to make and rent to pay. Dec 18 08 11:33 am Link |
