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Photographers: Making a profit from shoots?
Posted by Marvin Dockery: Jul 09 05 08:03 pm Link David, Your release seems to cover all concerns, BUT remember that you are in an ongoing and evolving medium and business. It is preceisley this delema, that you have brought up as to why I think that most photographers doing TFP/TFCD without the proper release documents are going to eventualy get burned. IF you are in business, ANY business, you the seller/creator provides for your coustomer (model) a finished usable product at a specific cost. This is business 101. Bottom line, act like ANY other business and charge for what you do, provide a written receipt (contract). The 2 times in my 20 years of business that I have been taken to court, I have been able to produce a receipt for my services...CASE DISMISSED, with court costs FOR ME!! Oliver Cole-Professional Photographer Jul 09 05 08:49 pm Link That is why I like to use non-commercial standars release forms. If a photographer just uses a stadard release form and wants to sale my pictures the release better say "photos will be sold and model has been paid in full or will get a % of the profits" or something of the sort. If the release does not say anything like that then you have no right and must talk to me before hand. The release needs to be worded very good none of that "photographer has the right to do WHATEVER they want with the images" NO, it needs to be worded in DETAILS. Jul 09 05 09:01 pm Link Even in these online groups, sites, formats..EVERY image that has a person in it...I have a signed model release. Oliver Cole Jul 09 05 09:11 pm Link Posted by CO Model Amber: Ok, this is the sort of thing that is starting to weird me out a little. I'm a nobody. I'll never get paid for my work. I take pictures because I enjoy it. However I would love to make money at it. How am I supposed to specify usage and tems when I have no idea what they might be? I've never run into anyone who demanded this, but from the general thrust of the various conversations here on this topic, it doesn't matter. If I don't specify I can still get in trouble later from using a broader all encompasing release because I don't know and want to protect myself. Jul 09 05 09:11 pm Link Posted by CO Model Amber: Are you charging photographers to pose for them plus wanting to control what they do with the images, and maybe getting paid more money later, if they make a sale. Jul 09 05 09:20 pm Link Posted by CO Model Amber: So what is paid in full? If I paid you $2000 as a modeling (hypothetically) fee, would you consider that paid in full even though someone wants to license the use of the image for $15,000? Jul 09 05 11:20 pm Link Sheesh...there's so much bad information in this thread it's no wonder the industry doesn't take the Internet serious. Aaron "...most laws in the US, they are written by and put into place by and for the interests of the wealthy and the corporations..." No, laws are written to protect the little guy. The wealthy and corporate behemoths just happen to have the means to hire those that can explore all the loopholes David, There is no need to include TFP / Payment information in your Model Release. That should be done as a separate attachment that outlines the scope of work and payment. A Model Release is singular in function and should always be made first order of precedence. It is best kept that way to avoid any conflict and/or interpretation that will void the total document. Steven, "...How am I supposed to specify usage and tems when I have no idea what they might be?..." You don't. The Model Release is not required to do that specific function, although some (agencies and clients) will negotiate to limit use based on individual assignment. For personal work it can't be determined if the shooting session has no defined purpose other than creating images. It simply isn't possible, as who knows what your heirs and assigns might do with your creative body of work once you head to the great studio in the sky. Terms, such as payment made or received, should be under separate attachment. Michael, "...I firmly believe that leading a model to believe the photos are for limited use and then getting them to sign an unrestrictive release form we call "standard" is a horrible practice..." See "heading to the great studio in the sky" above. The "horrible practice" you describe lends no posterity to an artist's body of work. Unless otherwise stated in the terms of the release for specific usage (as in client or agency demand) it makes no sense at all to restrict the value in creating images. For example, are you going to leave it up to others to track down releases for images included in your biography? Amber, A Model Release is a photographer document, not a model document. Again, what you are requesting should be made under a separate attachment that can refer back to the attached agreement by the photographer in the scope of work and payment. Don't want to do the required paperwork? Get an agency or hire an assistant to handle your details. ---------------------- There is no reason in the world a model should fear signing a release. If that attitude is presented on the street with clients the model will soon be shown the door. They (releases) are "spirit and intent" agreements, meaning if the spirit and intent by the photographer is to defame or cause harm and damage to a reputation the release won't hold up. If that is a worry, then why would a model even choose to work with one so untrustworthy. There are ways to determine that trust, through references. There are ways to be compensated, negotiate beforehand. Models should understand the purpose in which they endeavor to work...to release their image to the creator. That is what models do. If that is a cause for concern then I dare say one should find a different occupation, as the purpose of their work hasn't been clearly understood. As for the original question, "Making a profit from shoots?" is it not the intent if one is doing more than playing around? Jul 09 05 11:30 pm Link Posted by area291: Thanks for the tip... I definately want to do things right... Any ideas on a seperate form for payment and shoot info? Does it have to have the same legal jargon as the release. Jul 09 05 11:39 pm Link Posted by Steven Abel: Steven... use a release my friend, ALWAYS. I will send you a copy of mine if you like, and just change the company name and the county you wish any litigation to take place in. It's not the equivalent of having had counsel with a lawyer in you area, but it's so much better then nothing. email me, and i will send. Jul 10 05 11:47 am Link Posted by David Holloway: theoretically, you can hand write a models release, with the terms on it and have the model sign it. in this democracy of ours, even an oral contract can be binding in a court of law. the legal jargon just helps to further bind and show intent. it's very necessary for ease of interpretation. as for paying the model, just simply use a reciept that states what the model is being paid for, and how much. and YOU keep the reciept, signed by her stating that yes, in fact she did the work and RECIEVED her agreed upon paymnet for it. Jul 10 05 11:52 am Link My TFP release form gives me all rights to the images. If I sell them I will pay the model (+MUA +hair +wardrobe) a share, even though I'm not legally obligated to do so. It's the right thing to do. Jul 13 05 01:07 am Link |
