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Working on a "TFF" Basis
In another thread, someone again blasted photogs who actually charge models for images. As I pondered the twisted logic behind the person's post, I noticed that I had a toothache. So, I figured, what the heck? I called my dentist and asked if he'd work with me on a TFF basis. He says, "What?" I responded that TFF was "Time for Fillings" I would be willing to let him work on me if he fixed my tooth in exchange for my time. He didn't seem interested. I wonder, do the "big names" in dentistry charge their clients? Jul 05 05 06:09 pm Link LMBFAO!!!! Jul 05 05 06:13 pm Link If you go to the UMDNJ (uggg I think that is the correct initials) They do TFF. + UMDNJ = University of Medicine and Dentristry of New Jersey. They are always looking for Guinea Pigs there! Jul 06 05 07:04 am Link Posted by Ty Simone: For the record, the dental students there are closely supervised and are known for doing very good work. The equivalent in photographic quality would often be superior to what I've seen in the portfolios of many models and photographers. The dental students can't clean up their garbage with Photoshop. Jul 06 05 07:13 am Link Posted by Belair: If your point is to bash TFP, come out and do it. If you want to compare professional exchanges apart from photographers and models, use a valid comparison. Jul 06 05 07:19 am Link Posted by Herb Way: Posted by Ty Simone: For the record, the dental students there are closely supervised and are known for doing very good work. The equivalent in photographic quality would often be superior to what I've seen in the portfolios of many models and photographers. The dental students can't clean up their garbage with Photoshop. Herb is right btw. It is one of the most prestigious schools (when not in the middle of accounting scandals) for dentistry. Jul 06 05 07:26 am Link Hehehehe. That was pretty good, Belair. I guess some models don't understand that we have to make money to, and that it isn't all about them. Jul 06 05 09:09 am Link If my human does not get paid, how else will he afford his disposable camera? Jul 06 05 09:12 am Link TFP is a curse word!!!! I hate it! Seems that every model that I encounter ask for the freebe. You have go to be kidding me!!! I am supposed to provide my professional work, time, make up and in some cases clothing to allow models to build thier portfolio. The intent for TFP is a great thing, but it is far out of hand as many models really think that photographers have nothing better to do thant T.F.P.(Take Free Photos) If Tyra Banks thought my work was professional enough to do a shoot to help promote her, why would I do it for free? On the flip side, if Plain Jane Model approached me with the same, again she is looking to promote herself....why would I provide professional work for nothing? If I were just starting out and needed experience, then TFP might benefit us both. Jul 06 05 09:21 am Link Posted by Intense Media Dev.: Soo are you saying you wouldn't do Tyra Banks photos for TFP? Why not? She is a well known public figure. That would help you out tremendously...right? Jul 06 05 09:45 am Link If you are not on here for TFP work, but only pay work, that is fine. Simply state so in your profile, along with why you think you should be paid, and those models that agree will come to pay you. Otherwise, TFP is a mutual thing and benefits both the photographer and the model that are performing it. (otherwise they should not be doing TFP to begin with) It is not a bad thing. It is what needs to happen to make good photographers great, average photographers good, and GWC's happy (they get to see lots of nude women!) Jul 06 05 11:17 am Link The problem isn't TFP as many seem to think. Professionals such as Dan find good use of it and if Tyra was offering not many would refuse. The practice is a fun way to experiment with creative ideas, meet new people and break the every day assignment norm. No, TFP isn't the problem. The problem is the expectation the process has brought about, even so far as clients attempting to request TFP for exposure value. When the first thought by people is exchanging what should rightfully be purchased as a professional service, whether that be model or photography services, then the practice deflates the value of the professions. Headshots are a prime example...good grief, who in their right mind needs yet another headshot in the book...yet headshots are requested all the time in order to get them free. Oh, and I want hi-res files so I can do my own printing... True of the adage that one gets what one pays for, but as more and more find they can be serviced on the cheap it weakens the overall value of service. One needn't look further than markets such as NY and LA where headshots, once a very strong business for photographers, has been decimated by the practice of TFP. If the argument is, "I need to develop my portfolio through practice" well, if you can't shoot a simple headshot without much difficulty then I dare say a different line of work might be in order... Jul 06 05 12:57 pm Link Posted by area291: Very true. The Burbank area is a prime example! I watched it first hand as the years went by and the for sale signs went up on a once thriving studio. Jul 06 05 01:38 pm Link Posted by Doug Harvey: Posted by area291: Very true. The Burbank area is a prime example! I watched it first hand as the years went by and the for sale signs went up on a once thriving studio. Here in the Chicago area, portrait studios seem to be closing left and right. I'm sure that there are a number of reasons for this, but I think that one of the main reasons is that consumers aren't demanding the level of quality in portraiture that had in the past. For less than $100, a family can trundle into Walmart and get a shot that "looks good enough" to give to granny. So, why spend $1000 from a pro studio. The other $900 can be used at Walmart every year for the next 9 years to give granny updated shots. Jul 06 05 03:16 pm Link ive actually tried to barter with dentists before but havnt found one that needs photo work done. let me know if you guys find one. Jul 06 05 03:18 pm Link I thought dentists all own Leicas and never use them  Jul 06 05 03:44 pm Link I think a huge reason for the fall of portrait studios is the death to family values... People don't like their kids, why would they want a photo of them... besides a photo next to the falls is much cooler then a photo looking like someone your not, in front of a big gray screen. If photographers adapted to the changes in the environment, they would be able to find work easier⦠Iâm working on my skills every day, but the fact that my photoâs are not the best doesnât matter in the situations I place myself in. Find something of interest to you, and someone else. If you strike a cord in the buyer then they will buy. If you really love it and they donât, you now have a piece for your portfolio⦠next to all the other shoots you like⦠Remember marketing is the key to any business, Market yourself right and your work will sell it self. Jul 06 05 04:24 pm Link Posted by Belair: Posted by Doug Harvey: Posted by area291: Very true. The Burbank area is a prime example! I watched it first hand as the years went by and the for sale signs went up on a once thriving studio. Here in the Chicago area, portrait studios seem to be closing left and right. I'm sure that there are a number of reasons for this, but I think that one of the main reasons is that consumers aren't demanding the level of quality in portraiture that had in the past. For less than $100, a family can trundle into Walmart and get a shot that "looks good enough" to give to granny. So, why spend $1000 from a pro studio. The other $900 can be used at Walmart every year for the next 9 years to give granny updated shots. I think you've inadvertently indentified the problem. Technological advances have made it possible to do the "ordinary" without the aid of lots of equipment and "professional" training. The people who will survive this trend are the ones who can do the EXTRAordinary. Which side of that equation one ends up on depends entirely on one's own creativity, vision and nerve. The future lies outside of the box. Jul 06 05 04:33 pm Link Belair & Melvin, you both have stated the very good point. One is the easy Walmart photo. Second is the easy digi-cam and Third is the expectation or "want" of pro photos (especially for weddings) has deminished considerably. Jul 06 05 04:48 pm Link With regards to Uncle Joe shooting, it will only be when he totally messes it up that the happy couple will wish they had paid a pro. The occasinal "knowledgable" Joe might make a passable effort, but by and large when the bride and groom compare their album to a professionaly shot one, they will appreciate the difference and maybe look back on their decision and cringe. Part of the general publics problem is they might not appreciate how difficult good photography is - im still very new to it and had no interest until 10 months ago, which meant i didnt appreciate what went into it. I now have a new understanding of how complex it is but can understand why someone without an interest might not want to pay for something that they percieve to be "not that difficult", considering readily available technology. I guess its a case of finding that niche and photographing the type of images that the GWC's and Uncle Joes out there have no hope in hell of achieving, maybe that way, the value of good photography will return to those that can pay. Jul 06 05 05:15 pm Link ---"I now have a new understanding of how complex it is but can understand why someone without an interest might not want to pay for something that they percieve to be "not that difficult"." --- If only "models" understood this about make-up artistry... Jul 06 05 05:19 pm Link Ah, economics... the dismal science. But... the economy is dynamic. It will never stand still. As technology and changing demographics alter the playing field, some people adapt, and some people complain all the way to bankruptcy court. Protectionism didn't save various elements of the U.S. manufacturing sector; similarly, complaining about tfp isn't going to make it go away. Some photographers seem to be adapting just fine, though. Jul 06 05 05:26 pm Link Agreed - theres always change in every industry - established names an in industry, especially those who have a good amount of time invested will always recall changing times and the effect it had. The blips they have felt over time will have usually been negotiated by adapting themselves - personally, i think its mainly those starting in an industry that are A) finding it hard to establish themselves and B) have inconsistent paid work that have the most difficult time with change. One minute they are gathering momentum and then change looms up and threatens to turn it all on its head, their ability to deal with it and adapt is usually limited by lack of experience across all areas Jul 06 05 05:36 pm Link Posted by Brian Diaz: yah, they keep 'em in the glove box of their benzs Jul 06 05 09:49 pm Link Posted by Ken Mierzwa: bah, Carlyle was a racist and a moron, his "dismal science" BS in reply to Mill was just as racist and moronic as Carlyle was Jul 06 05 09:57 pm Link Posted by Herb Way: Ah, but if they could...people would go to the Dentist more often. Jul 06 05 10:02 pm Link Posted by CO_Charlie: GAHTDAYMMIT! QUIT USING MY NAME IN YOUR STUPID EUPHEMISMS AND ANALOGIES! Jul 06 05 10:05 pm Link Any photogs complaining about TFCD in the LA area, send the models my way I would MUCH rather do TFCD than pay some random model $150 an hour...Jul 06 05 10:41 pm Link Posted by Joe K. Perez: Posted by CO_Charlie: GAHTDAYMMIT! QUIT USING MY NAME IN YOUR STUPID EUPHEMISMS AND ANALOGIES! You'll have to blame someone else for bringing up the Uncle Joe thing - however, id like to retain the right to carry on using stupid euphemisims and anologies if thats ok Jul 07 05 03:22 am Link Posted by CO_Charlie: Posted by Joe K. Perez: Posted by CO_Charlie: GAHTDAYMMIT! QUIT USING MY NAME IN YOUR STUPID EUPHEMISMS AND ANALOGIES! You'll have to blame someone else for bringing up the Uncle Joe thing - however, id like to retain the right to carry on using stupid euphemisims and anologies if thats ok Actually, that was pretty original with the Uncle Joe thing. So yeah, you're alright. You get a 10 for originality. Jul 07 05 03:24 am Link |
