Photographer
5th Floor Photography
Posts: 745
New York, New York, US
Andrea Barnett wrote:
I'd just thought since we're developing fun lists... that I would do so too. Just to give you an idea. MAC make up is fairly common amoung MUAs..... but can also be on the cheaper end depending on if they also use Chanel, Dior ect... And this is JUST MU not the actual skin prep before hand.
Eyeshadows - $13.50-35 EACH (imagine having a need of at LEAST 25-50 shadows)
Mascara - about $15-25 per tube (need, brown and black as essentials... often times more)
Foundation - $35-60 per bottle (If you have a pallet to match exact shades... you're looking at hundreds of dollars. If not, Still hundreds to have the shades you need)
Powders - about $20 a piece. For each shade... as well as bronzing, shimmers ect
Blushes- $20-40 a piece... again, you need many colors for different skin types, colors and for different contouring.
Lips- $15-40 a piece.... this includes lipsticks, glosses, liners ect. Each at this price.
Now this is the BARE minimum.... a good MUA will have all of this and plenty plenty more. And they will replenish over and over and over again. I agree that make up artist have costs. My own make up kit is worth $8000-$10000 retail (I didn't pay anywhere near that and am not whining about my investment).
Those colors you mentioned are expensive but like a camera get used over and over and over.
The only make up artists that go through allot of color are the airbrush artists and the runway artists.
The working pro mentioned above who spends $2000 a month on supplies I'm sure has a day rate in the thousands and still has many of the supplies left over.
If not they need to control their spending or raise their rates (same thing on a different level).
If you're a make up artist and know your going to use allot of color for a job say "I'll charge $xxxx to do this job".
Enough with the I work TF but charge baloney. We all invest allot in TF shoots.
Model
CandyCaneFL
Posts: 373
Key West, Florida, US
So if the model has her own collection of expensive make-up and uses her own make-up does the model charge a kit fee? 
Photographer
5th Floor Photography
Posts: 745
New York, New York, US
CurvyCandy wrote:
So if the model has her own collection of expensive make-up and uses her own make-up does the model charge a kit fee? To herself. It's TF:)
Photographer
Leonard Gee Photography
Posts: 18096
Sacramento, California, US
Expendablels:
1. Backdrops $75 each
2. Gaffer's tape $18 per roll
3. 4 AA batteies $6
4. Plexiglas 4X8 $139
5. Foamcore 4X8 $80
6.
7.
Double stick tape, neck straps, lens tissue, lens cleaner, sensor cleaner, matt spray.
We all have costs. MUA's and models fail to see just our expendable costs - never mind the cameras & lenses.
Photographer
Henri3
Posts: 7392
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
WILLIAMANUEL wrote:
Iâve seen photographers here and on other sites using techniques that enhance images either improving the work of an MUA or in some instances, without the use of an MUA. With that said, do you think the days of working with an MUA are numbered? (speaking humbly) This is both ignorant and outrageous fantasy to me. Mostly fantasy.
I've altered, repaired makeup, but have NO desire to spend time on this.
Suggestions like this will get you lynched ,or worse, in the Stylist forum. Wear you flak jacket.
In my area, there are about: estimate
600 models
300 photographers
25 mua's listed in MM
any further questions?
if a mua is starting out, with no decent images, I'm unlikely to pay ANY kit fee.
As she gets to work with a hand picked model and a photog who can create images she NEEDS. As I'll always shoot-edit closeups for her portfolio.
Mostly though, I use someone with experience, and split any kit fee with the model.
If it's a dedicated beauty shoot, chances are, no one gets paid , except with hard earned & retouched beauty images. They are out playing while I devote 4-8 hours retouching those images that everyone benefits from.
Makeup Artist
Aziza Walker
Posts: 865
New York, New York, US
Why was this old thread bumped?
Photographer
Mask Photo
Posts: 1453
Fremont, California, US
aziza_w wrote:
Why was this old thread bumped? Holy thread necromancy, Batman!
it's The Night of The Living Thread!
Photographer
Magnolia Photography
Posts: 489
Newton Aycliffe, England, United Kingdom
When doing TFP/CD everyone should do it and waiver all expenses and benefit from the images... now play nice.
P.s... unless having a booking from a client... I have MUA experience for a few years (got rid of kit and ask model to bring her own make up to protect me from being liable for any allergies etc too) and I include that WITH my photography when doing TF shoots with models...(my experience, my choice)
...but i see people arguing with one another and not listening to reason...
Photographer
Jason Haven
Posts: 38381
Washington, District of Columbia, US
Quite frankly, I tend to laugh when I see "Kit fee"
Either you are doing trade.. meaning the picture(s) you get is worth your time and product... or you are getting paid your rates. This kit fee nonsense is ... just that, nonsense.
Everyone has things they spend money on, and have to replace in time. Everyone has travel expenses. Everyone has food expenses... etc. Trade is trade. If you are charging someone money, no matter what your excuse, it ceases to be "trade".
Model
JoJo
Posts: 26560
Clearwater, Florida, US
-ASYLUM- wrote:
Quite frankly, I tend to laugh when I see "Kit fee"
Either you are doing trade.. meaning the picture(s) you get is worth your time and product... or you are getting paid your rates. This kit fee nonsense is ... just that, nonsense.
Everyone has things they spend money on, and have to replace in time. Everyone has travel expenses. Everyone has food expenses... etc. Trade is trade. If you are charging someone money, no matter what your excuse, it ceases to be "trade". Very well stated - Thank you, my feelings exactly 
Photographer
MisterC
Posts: 15162
Portland, Oregon, US
MUAs can have a kit fee. Models can have escorts. And photographers can be creepy. Nobody has to work with people they don't want to. Wanna kill "kit fees?" Simply don't do TF with that person.
Makeup Artist
TheMakeupMan
Posts: 3799
Los Angeles, California, US
Glamour Boulevard wrote:
Quality professional cameras run from 1,000-20,000 bucks, good light sets can run upwards of 500-1000 per light,the laptop I use for editing cost almost 3 grand, often a photographers editing charge can reach 50 bucks an hour or more....
And you were saying?............. Ohhhh lord grow up
What we use are expendables , cameras and lighting are not expendables (unless your renting )
But Honestly this whole biz of kit fee is BS becouse it started in Movies and TV , its only a bunch of amatures on here that use kit fee
If the model and photgrapher are good enough its a Test and everyone sacrafices
Also DROP the whole TFP crap , no one in the real world uses it, it is called a TEST
Photographer
Fashionista Group
Posts: 19
San Francisco, California, US
I dont believe there is a one size fits all here. I've shoot with a Canon 1dsm3 and a 1dm3 as a backup so I'm already in the hole for $13k, I also have about the same amount in lighting as well. I do shoot test shoots why because it gives me a avenue to try out something that maybe I'd play safer on a paid shoot. If you wont want to pay kit fee's just say so in your profile, there's plenty of mua that will shoot without a kit fee. You are limiting your scope to who you'll be able to work with but a good mua wont necessary charge a kit fee and a mua who charges a kit fee wont necessarily be good either.
If I want to work with someone bad enough you do what you need to do. I'll pay day rate if I want them bad enough. But he's the deal, if I pay an individual for their service unless there someone who can help get me positive exposure, I never give out free images because they sure werent free for me to shoot, but I always state that at the beginning. I hear photogs say whats the harm, but humans dont appreciate what they get for free and getting free images is no different.
BTW if your learning to shoot the best thing you can ever do in my opinion is pay a good model, mua and hairstylist. You'll learn more in a day than you will in a 100 test sessions with people who are as or less talented than you are. Last point anyone who thinks even turning up for a shot without a mua is worthwhile your just wasting your time. Buy a cheaper camera and use the extra money for mua's you'll notice it more than have a fancy camera with the model doing their own makeup.
I also drop more on lunch for everyone than most makeup artist charge for kit fee. Trying shooting anything with a bunch of hungry people.
Jon
Photographer
MisterC
Posts: 15162
Portland, Oregon, US
TheMakeupman wrote:
Ohhhh lord grow up
What we use are expendables , cameras and lighting are not expendables (unless your renting )
But Honestly this whole biz of kit fee is BS becouse it started in Movies and TV , its only a bunch of amatures on here that use kit fee
If the model and photgrapher are good enough its a Test and everyone sacrafices
Also DROP the whole TFP crap , no one in the real world uses it, it is called a TEST TF is pretty industry standard around here. Not sure if it matters what it's called.
Camera's and lighting are expendable, and they are expensive. As are batteries and the massive amount of time editing images. As well as the computer equipment. As well as the electricity sucked from my PC. As well as the cd I burn and prints I make. And the printer. Honestly, no shoot costs me less then 50bucks minimum. There's just too much invested in equipment. In fact, TF means I do for free what I normally charge a few hundred bucks for.
Photographer
Ivan Outerbridge
Posts: 490
Hamilton, Hamilton, Bermuda
I have looked through this thread and I see what everyone is talking about. For the most part I agree with all points of views. If any party seems to think that they need compensation why not just ask for it.
Model - Time, talent
MUA - Time , talent, make up
Photographer - Time , talent, electricity (if in studio)
The value of equipment used by either (make up, clothes, cameras, computers etc.) can vary and holds different amounts to each individual. To make things less complicated after the shoot is described/discussed then everyone involved can decide whether it will cost more or less and then ask for the cost to be divided or compensated.
IMHO
Photographer
Benjamin Kwan
Posts: 10
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Frank Perez Imagery wrote:
cameras and lights are also worth thousands...they have only so much life in them also..... should us photographes start charging an equipment fee? Exactly! Photographer's equipments cost thousands as well. Why no one think of our expenses as well?
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Benjamin Kwan wrote:
Exactly! Photographer's equipments cost thousands as well. Why no one think of our expenses as well? Because . . . nobody gives a damn about your expenses. They care about the style and quality of your work. That and only that will determine what it takes to make them want to work with you.
Why is this so hard for people to understand?
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24079
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
TheMakeupman wrote:
But Honestly this whole biz of kit fee is BS becouse it started in Movies and TV , its only a bunch of amatures on here that use kit fee
If the model and photgrapher are good enough its a Test and everyone sacrafices
Also DROP the whole TFP crap , no one in the real world uses it, it is called a TEST Agree.
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24079
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
-ASYLUM- wrote:
Quite frankly, I tend to laugh when I see "Kit fee"
Either you are doing trade.. meaning the picture(s) you get is worth your time and product... or you are getting paid your rates. This kit fee nonsense is ... just that, nonsense.
Everyone has things they spend money on, and have to replace in time. Everyone has travel expenses. Everyone has food expenses... etc. Trade is trade. If you are charging someone money, no matter what your excuse, it ceases to be "trade". Also agree.
Either you're on board with the idea, or not on board and being paid to do what we want. Personally, I'd rather work with people who want to work with me, and personally I'd rather wait for real paying work to get paid with than silly $30-50 here and there.
If someone really needs that little of money to get along then they really need to get a job rather than do this creative hobby stuff.
Makeup Artist
TheMakeupMan
Posts: 3799
Los Angeles, California, US
Andrew Thomas Designs wrote:
Also agree.
Either you're on board with the idea, or not on board and being paid to do what we want. Personally, I'd rather work with people who want to work with me, and personally I'd rather wait for real paying work to get paid with than silly $30-50 here and there.
If someone really needs that little of money to get along then they really need to get a job rather than do this creative hobby stuff. TOTALLY!!!!! LOL
Photographer
K E S L E R
Posts: 11574
Los Angeles, California, US
Dood, my last shoot I had to go buy lashes for the MUA because she ran out. 10 bucks for two sets.....
Photographer
Julia Dando
Posts: 1328
Plymouth, England, United Kingdom
Jeff Marsh ATLANTA wrote:
Holy hell, get over it!! I dont mind paying a kit fee to a top flight MUA even when I'm doing the shoot tfp.........beats buying crayons and tempura paint.... wake up folks $45 kit fee beats several hundred dollars...
And I have my own studio, ya da ya da and know about overhead... like I said, get over it and be thankful you can get a pro for a kit fee... ![https://www.nigelsmith.net/assets/images/head_up_arse.jpg]()
Photographer
J C ModeFotografie
Posts: 14718
Los Angeles, California, US
LeBrone wrote:
I know, everything costs money; quality mu, quality equipment, quality models. I see how this thread was killed b4, it has hostile undertones from the start. The trouble is that people don't understand the meaning of words like "collaborate", "cooperate", "trade".
Photographer
PYPI FASHION
Posts: 36332
San Francisco, California, US
I buy everyone in the team food. Food is an expendable and in the end, all that results is crap.
Makeup Artist
Jen Holiday MUA
Posts: 12
San Francisco, California, US
And all of those reasons is why I never charge a kit fee on TF. TF is TF!!!
Model
Bella Valentine
Posts: 515
Scottsdale, Arizona, US
I'm gonna start charging a kit fee of $300 for TFP shoots to cover the cost of the outfits.
jk! ;-)
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8098
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
There are other expenses for a photographer other than shutter clicks, studio rentals, backdrops or bulb replacements. When I do the touchups of the photos after the shoot, one photo can pass through as much as $1000.00 or more in software from Photoshop to Lightroom to all sorts of plugins and utilities. Plus, every time Adobe goes from CSX to CSY I buy the updates. This holds true on all my software. So it's REAL easy to rack up a few grand just in software updates every year alone, not to mention the new programs I buy. And all of those expenses get put to use in every shoot I do INCLUDING TF* shoots.
I totally understand that an MUA has hard costs every time they work, but so do the rest of us. It just may not be as obvious as an application of lipstick or eyeshadow but it's every bit as important.
Model
Lea Halliwell
Posts: 3939
Lexington, Kentucky, US
WILLIAMANUEL wrote:
THIS IS NOT A RANT! I'm just trying to understand why are there any monies envolved in a TFP?CD Shoot? That's it, that's all and how do people feel about it. No need for anyone to get upset. GEESH! There should NOT be any money involved in a TFP/CD shoot EVER. If there were money involved, it would not be TFP/CD. It would be paid. If an MUA can't understand that, then you need to find one that does.
I'm not getting paid, & neither is the photographer & we are giving out time, resources & money to do the shoot. Why should the MUA be any different?
Makeup Artist
ROSHAR
Posts: 3791
Los Angeles, California, US
Jen Holiday MUA wrote:
And all of those reasons is why I never charge a kit fee on TF. TF is TF!!! OMG! This thread was dead for 4 months till you posted!
Why bump it?
Let it die!
Photographer
J C ModeFotografie
Posts: 14718
Los Angeles, California, US
LeBrone wrote:
Quality MU is really expensive, so you are helping to cover the cost of the supplies. They are providing the skills in return for images. My MUA's kit is worth thousands, and the mu has a short life span and constantly needs to be replenished. Cameras are expensive, gas is expensive - where do people get the idea that photographers create pictures out of thin air at no cost to themselves??????????
Model
Lea Halliwell
Posts: 3939
Lexington, Kentucky, US
Roshar wrote:
OMG! This thread was dead for 4 months till you posted!
Why bump it?
Let it die! Wow. I didn't even notice. Oops.
(not sarcasm)
Photographer
WMcK
Posts: 5298
Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
WILLIAMANUEL wrote:
Okay so what is 'A kit fee'? When, MUA's are coming in for TFP/cd work. I'm starting to see this lot. I thought TFP/cd meant = all involved would receive images from the shoot. I understand if you're traveling from another city but isn't everyone traveling from somewhere too? Please someone help me understand. If it's, TFP/cd; how come the MUA receive a kit fee, plus images? It means that even if the MUA does not charge for her time, but you have to pay for the consumables used. A MUA's kit can be expensive so it's quite reasonable to ask for this.
Photographer
Haarvey Aardvark
Posts: 976
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
WILLIAMANUEL wrote:
Okay so what is 'A kit fee'? It's an attempt by MUA's and stylists to have a TF* shoot that is not really a TF* shoot.
Photographer
IAmDwayneMoore
Posts: 6
Miami, Florida, US
Max V wrote:
Everyone should get paid. Nothing is free.
Your 'tfp' does not mean "free fun with a hot chick".
There are several options:
*If you are cheap for not paying 50 bucks for a kit fee, tell your model to pay that.
*Don't hire a MUA... Since you are having fun with a hot chick, tell that chick to take care of the makeup.
*Go learn how to do makeup and don't never hire a MUA.
*Charge your model, forget freakin TFP bs... Pay your MUA, stylist.
*Don't do TFP unless its a project. Pay expenses. Value your project, make more money than what you spend on the project.
*Retire. Shoot landscapes, nature, birds, bugs.
Max V. lol
Retoucher
Hellan Judd - Retouch
Posts: 1860
London, England, United Kingdom
WILLIAMANUEL wrote:
Okay so what is 'A kit fee'? A rip off.
If a MUA values the pictures she's going to get from a shoot enough then she will pay her own expenses, just as photographers, models and everybody else does in a test situation.
If any MUA ever proposes to charge me a "kit fee" then I will just respond with my "retouching fee". Luckily, nobody has yet been daft enough to insult me in this manner.
Just my $0.02
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com
Photographer
IAmDwayneMoore
Posts: 6
Miami, Florida, US
Like many people have stated just pay the Kit fee because MUA can range from $100 to thousands depending on the project. I've never heard of a Kit fee before this but then again that's why I try to stay away from tf/anything.
Photographer
STUDIOMONA PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 33697
Avon, Minnesota, US
LeBrone wrote:
Quality MU is really expensive, Glamour Boulevard wrote:
Quality professional cameras run from 1,000-20,000 bucks, good light sets can run upwards of 500-1000 per light,the laptop I use for editing cost almost 3 grand, often a photographers editing charge can reach 50 bucks an hour or more....
And you were saying?............. qft. maybe photographers should start charging equipment fee? 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 12067
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US
Nitasha Najeeb wrote:
cameras last a life time... I have been shooting with models almost exactly one year. I'm about to buy my 4th camera. They last forever if they sit in the case all the time; take loads of pictures, travel to strange places to get interesting backgrounds, have them around the studio with lots of people, and they break / wear out.
I have very good friend who is a MUA; I was shocked at how much money is invested. But it's naive to think that photographer's equipment doesn't wear out and depreciate. I figure, on average, a TFP shoot costs me $150-$200; and I'm pretty low budget. Some of that is cash, and some is indirect, but it all adds up.
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