Dorothy Ricot wrote:
Perhaps I missed something?

yes.  the understanding of how agencies remain in business.

Dorothy Ricot wrote:
With the growing success of alternative models

What growing success?  Are you seeing a lot of alternative models represented in the mainstream commercial culture?

Agencies can't really stay afloat and profitable on the back of a small, niche culture.  Case in point: Ugly NY closing its doors last year.

Vaunt wrote:
There is an "alt" agency... they're called Ugly Talent.

I think the London office is the only one still open... but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Vaunt wrote:
But the thing with more alternative modes becoming mainstream is that designers are more open to it

It's also fairly easy to hire a MUA/H to "alt up" your mainstream model, slap on a few temp tats and fake piercings, and voila, you have an agency standard alt model.

Personally, I like a model who's not perfect. People who are different are just more interesting to look at, IMO.

291 wrote:

yes.  the understanding of how agencies remain in business.

I was seeking understanding, hence the act of asking a question.

The Model Angela wrote:

Vaunt wrote:
There is an "alt" agency... they're called Ugly Talent.

I think the London office is the only one still open... but please correct me if I'm wrong.


It's also fairly easy to hire a MUA/H to "alt up" your mainstream model, slap on a few temp tats and fake piercings, and voila, you have an agency standard alt model.

Personally, I like a model who's not perfect. People who are different are just more interesting to look at, IMO.

I understand, it seems backwards but at least im starting to see what is happening here.

Simon Gerzina wrote:
What growing success?  Are you seeing a lot of alternative models represented in the mainstream commercial culture?

Agencies can't really stay afloat and profitable on the back of a small, niche culture.  Case in point: Ugly NY closing its doors last year.

You're right it isnt models necessarily but individuals who entertain who happen to identify with or represent that subculture in some way.

As for whether this "niche" culture is still as underground as many would like to think, Im pretty certain is at the very least debatable.

Simon Gerzina wrote:

What growing success?  Are you seeing a lot of alternative models represented in the mainstream commercial culture?

Agencies can't really stay afloat and profitable on the back of a small, niche culture.  Case in point: Ugly NY closing its doors last year.

Alt isn't growing... and if anything, as far as I can see, is a fading trend.  As stated above, alt agencies are closing, and retailers like Hot Topic are falling by the wayside in droves, or revamping their business model to appeal to a more mainstream audience.
Alt, emo, goth... very small niche genres, likely to fade completely into obscurity before too long IMO

MOPP wrote:

Alt isn't growing... and if anything, as far as I can see, is a fading trend.  As stated above, alt agencies are closing, and retailers like Hot Topic are falling by the wayside in droves, or revamping their business model to appeal to a more mainstream audience.
Alt, emo, goth... very small niche genres, likely to fade completely into obscurity before too long IMO

Goth has been around for a very long time.   AND, there's also been lots of alt./goth/fetish undertones in mainstream fashion magazines for a very long time as well.

Jade Noir wrote:

MOPP wrote:
Alt isn't growing... and if anything, as far as I can see, is a fading trend.  As stated above, alt agencies are closing, and retailers like Hot Topic are falling by the wayside in droves, or revamping their business model to appeal to a more mainstream audience.
Alt, emo, goth... very small niche genres, likely to fade completely into obscurity before too long IMO

Goth has been around for a very long time.   AND, there's also been lots of alt./goth/fetish undertones in mainstream fashion magazines for a very long time as well.

Alt models are something the poster has been posting negative things about for a couple of years now. "Facts" don't need to be true for people to believe them, or repeat them. They do have to be true to be real facts, however, not just opinions stated as facts.

Vaunt wrote:
There is an "alt" agency... they're called Ugly Talent.
But the thing with more alternative modes becoming mainstream is that designers are more open to it, and now it's ok to have a tattoo or two if you're a high fashion model. So again, it's the old question of: why hire a shorter alt model when a tall fashion model can do the same thing but keep the established standard?

You mean UglyNY who closed their doors last years?

MOPP wrote:
Alt isn't growing... and if anything, as far as I can see, is a fading trend.

I would probably agree with that, i'm sure it was a much bigger thing back when i started out (and it wasn't mainstream then).

PYPI FASHION wrote:

You mean UglyNY who closed their doors last years?

Ugly London are still very much about as far as i know, i know a couple of people who are with them.

http://www.ugly.org/

Broken Doll wrote:
There are some here in Europe...
Don't know if they actually will provide much work to their models

They don't. I have done some research.

Babalon Salome wrote:

They don't. I have done some research.

They don't.
I have been on them all, and only ever had one job.
Score!

Ugly London is still alive and kicking though.

x

Vaunt wrote:
There is an "alt" agency... they're called Ugly Talent.
But the thing with more alternative modes becoming mainstream is that designers are more open to it, and now it's ok to have a tattoo or two if you're a high fashion model. So again, it's the old question of: why hire a shorter alt model when a tall fashion model can do the same thing but keep the established standard?

shorter alt models apply to the masses what i mean by that is when you see shorter models or alt models you can see yourself wearing the clothing makeup etc. they feel closer to reality most people dont have the  perfect skin arent 6 ft tall and ribs skinny people arent perfect but to take someone so 'imperfect or different' and show that they can be gorgeous it just hits closer to home for people it feels more familiar at least thats how i feel. i say out with the old in with the new this world is changing all the time and im holding on tight for the ride

291 wrote:

yes.  the understanding of how agencies remain in business.

And the explanation is:

Models are used to represent the ultimate consumer
and the ones who cause sales are ASPIRATIONAL
to that ultimate consumer - that is - that the model
is more attractive than the ultimate consumer and

"if only the ultimate consumer would but that product, the ultimate consumer can also look that good"

Models considered "alt" models tend to not be as attractive
as the average consumer with bucks. Who wants to buy
something that will make them look LESS attractive?

That is the premise - and why alt models won't earn much.
The alt model was used only to draw attention to the brand
but cutting through the NOISE of all other ads
and not to actually sell the product. ( Complex, I know. )

I say "was used" because that fad has been done and
no longer has the same shock value.

MOPP wrote:
Alt isn't growing... and if anything, as far as I can see, is a fading trend.  As stated above, alt agencies are closing, and retailers like Hot Topic are falling by the wayside in droves, or revamping their business model to appeal to a more mainstream audience.
Alt, emo, goth... very small niche genres, likely to fade completely into obscurity before too long IMO

I think to a point I agree that alternative modeling is not something that's meant for mainstream but I don't think the style as a whole is 'falling by the wayside'  look at Unif, Nasty Gal or even Forever 21, they had Charlotte Free model their line last year I think and she's someone I consider to be an alt model.  Even Wildfox and Urban Outfitters have many alternative clothing style options on their sites.  There's also been more male and female tattooed models in major publications in recent history than in the past, at least from what I can tell.  I'm not saying that alt models agencies are going to suddenly explode in the industry but to act like alternative fashion doesn't exist just seems silly.

PS: hot topic was never fashionable, I should know I shopped there in high school.  Alternative fashion isn't exclusive to goth fashion.