VanessaNicole wrote:
Why do many photographers on here do not work with anyone under 18? There are more models out there that are under 18 why is that?

I dont care how old a model is but many on here just shoot newdies and they cant shoot newdies if youre not 18! lmao

Paul Brecht wrote:

Marissah Leigh  wrote:
Here in Canada, a contract is not valid unless the person is over 18, or if an over 18 year old cosigns. Which is the reason why minors can't have cell contracts under their name, have credit cards, buy cars from a lot by themselves...

In the US (where the OP is), this is not the case though. Laws vary throughout the world...

Marissah Leigh  wrote:
They don't NEED one, but what normal person is going to work alone with a young person? Really. It's so easy for that minor to dislike the photos, and then pull the "he touched me" card for attention. Of course adults can do it too, but it's so much more confusing if it's a child.

I rarely ever shoot alone. At the studio I shoot @, there's always someone there @ the front office. I have hair/mu 99% of the time, because it isn't worth shooting without good make-up. Otherwise, I might as well shoot for Sears...


This is subjective though. Ever since those Disney brats (Britney, Christina, etc) made it big, teenage girls wear lingerie to school as outerwear...

You definitely don't want to try & shoot sexually exploitive, but you can shoot quite a diverse amount of stuff with kids...

Look through this girl's port:

http://www.onemodelplace.com/member.cfm?ID=249879

Take note of the stuff she did with Bruce Smith for Supermodels Unlimited. She was 12 years old, when that was shot...

Neverless, her stuff is impressive for being 15, but even @ 12, well, she get's a few thumbs up from me. I talked with her mom back then & would have shot her in a heartbeat - still would...

If you ever would like to shoot a potential supermodel (I mean a real one, not one that is in their own mind), you have to catch them as a discovery, when they are young. By the time they're 18, they are either out of reach or over & done with...

Paul

In Florida
http://articles.directorym.com/Breach_o … ml#8064922

"There may be certain circumstances that may cause a contract to be null and void. If this is the case, it may be possible to get out of being accused of breaching a contract. There are many grounds that may be used to void a contract, although contacting a lawyer is recommended to see if they apply to your case. A lawyer can give you advice on how you should proceed.

A contract may be voided if it is determined that a minor entered into the contract. In most states, a minor is considered anyone under the age of 18, although there may be exceptions. If a contract is signed by a minor, and then later he or she wishes to void it, it can generally be voided with no breach of contract. One way to remedy this is to have a parent or guardian over 18 sign for the minor, or to simply not enter into a contract with one in the first place."

I work with minors and I will not have a minor sign a contract -- on a model release if the subject is a minor I have the parent sign on their behalf.

A contract with a minor except under special circumstances ( emancipated minor) is pretty much worthless IMO if it can be null and void simply because the signor was a minor.

S W I N S K E Y wrote:
they are paranoid...

evidence, the post above mine..

Yeap. And that is what I had said twice. This is what I think is the primary reason. Anyways, the model in my avatar was 14-15 when I shot that image. She is now working through Ford modeling.

Lumigraphics wrote:
The OP hasn't messaged me. I guess she doesn't want pictures THAT badly. FWIW, I'd shoot things like:



(16 and 17yo models)



(15yo model)



(17yo model)



(17yo model)



(17yo model)



(19yo model) Oh gee I cheated! She's over 18!

Well damn, if someone is putting me on blast like that, I wouldn't want to bother with them either.

Lumigraphics wrote:
The OP hasn't messaged me. I guess she doesn't want pictures THAT badly.

a thought, maybe she doesn't want them from you....????

S W I N S K E Y wrote:

a thought, maybe she doesn't want them from you....????

Yep that's possible. Has she messaged you about pictures?

S W I N S K E Y wrote:
a thought, maybe she doesn't want them from you....????

Lumigraphics wrote:
Yep that's possible. Has she messaged you about pictures?

why would she contact me? i'm 1200 miles away and i wasn't the one giving her the sales pitch.

Lumigraphics wrote:
I don't think the OP has been back. This thread was an attention rant, not actually wanting someone to shoot with her.

I doubt it. Her not replying to your pm doesn't equate to attention rant. Maybe she read all of the replies and concluded that these are the reasons for not getting shoots. What else more does she need?

Legacys 7 wrote:

I doubt it. Her not replying to your pm doesn't equate to attention rant. Maybe she read all of the replies and concluded that these are the reasons for not getting shoots. What else more does she need?

I didn't PM her.

GX2 Photography wrote:

hahahahaha! I was waiting for someone to blast that prick! hahahahaha!

I think you have gotten mixed up as to who is the prick.

VanessaNicole wrote:
Why do many photographers on here do not work with anyone under 18? There are more models out there that are under 18 why is that?

Not wanting to speculate on why.

I shoot minors when they fit the casting.

Lumigraphics wrote:

I think you have gotten mixed up as to who is the prick.

No, judging by the other posters responses to you, I was right on the mark.

Small Fruit Pits wrote:
Oh my to a number of recent posts....

Indeed. And I'm an asshole, NOT a prick. I wish the dipshits would get it right.

GX2 Photography wrote:

No, judging by the other posters responses to you, I was right on the mark.

Appeal to authority...and not much of an authority at that. -100 logical fallacy, -100 not thinking for yourself, -200 for not being able to tell the difference between a prick and an asshole.

Dude, you lose.

Christine Rose Photogra wrote:
In Florida
http://articles.directorym.com/Breach_o … ml#8064922

OK, but that still doesn't go against what I've said...

Christine Rose Photogra wrote:
I work with minors and I will not have a minor sign a contract -- on a model release if the subject is a minor I have the parent sign on their behalf.

A contract with a minor except under special circumstances ( emancipated minor) is pretty much worthless IMO if it can be null and void simply because the signor was a minor.

I do too, but to say that a minor can't legally enter into a contract is plain wrong in the US. I had mentioned that they can renege w/o recourse. If you are shooting portfolio work, there is no problems. If you are working for a client, you must take necessary steps to have legal guardian sign all documents. I'd imagine though, that 80%+ of what goes on on sites like MM is portfolio work...

I'm not the type to shoot portfolio work & then try & sell it to 3rd parties. IMO, that's shady practice, for the most part...

Paul

VanessaNicole wrote:
But if im only trying to get commercial shots why is that a problem?

It shouldn't be any problem but sounds more like excuses for whatever reason, accept it and move on to the next photographer for there are plenty to pick from.

VanessaNicole wrote:
But if im only trying to get commercial shots why is that a problem?

It should not be a problem if you are willing to pay for them -- IMO viable commercial shots are the hardest things to get TF.

Good commercial shooters are getting paid to do that type of work and don't need to trade for it.

Some shooters may do a genre swap ( like nudes for fashion or commercial) but that is not an option for you or for minors.

In my case I don't shoot commercial TF because I don't need it in my book -- I have tons of it that I have been paid for.

MM for me is for creatives or personal projects.

But that is just me

VanessaNicole wrote:
But if im only trying to get commercial shots why is that a problem?

So find a top-notch commercial shooter in Chicago and pay for your pictures. Why is that a problem?

HanJan wrote:
I am under 18 and have no problem finding quality photographers to shoot me.  I do not shoot with anyone who does not allow my mother to escort me.  I am fortunate that my parents are still married, support me in everything I do, don't cause problems for the photographer, etc.   My mother always stands in the background or helps out...whichever the photographer wants.  She knows I am there to work and she is there to make sure there are no "issues"!  Any photographer who would shoot a minor without a parent/guardian present is just asking for problems.  If a photographer doesn't want to work with a minor that is their call, find a quality photographer who will.

A model under 18 should be bringing a parent along.

VanessaNicole wrote:
I know many photograpphers that i can pay I just want to explore all my options first.

Have you tried posting a casting?

VanessaNicole wrote:
I know many photograpphers that i can pay I just want to explore all my options first.

Well, if that was working out then you wouldn't be posting a rant thread would you?

So either you have options left, in which case...this thread is pointless. Or you don't have options other than pay someone, in which case...well, hopefully you get it.

Rants aren't usually productive.

Post a casting. If that doesn't work (and honestly, it probably won't for the kind of commercial images you need) then look for someone to hire.

Lumigraphics wrote:
... not being able to tell the difference between a prick and an asshole.

In some societies, there is often little distance between pricks and assholes, so it may be difficult to tell where one leaves off and the other begins.

VanessaNicole wrote:
I know many photograpphers that i can pay I just want to explore all my options first.

Vanessa, the kind of images you need usually are shot by people who
charge.  No disrespect to the talents on MM but most here don't do commercial
work and most won't provide you with the level of images a agency would
want to represent you.  This would not be the case for fashion models who
don't need a book to go to a agency. 

Commercial models tend to need viable work to be seen and taken seriously.
Don't look for TFP for commercial images in other words.  Get around $300.00
or so and call Ford or BMG or another Chicago agency and ask for commercial
shooters they recommend.  They may not provide any names and if not take a
look at local publications and see who's shooting them.  Shooters like Socko and
others do decent commercial work. 

You asked for options.  Rather then waste time running from TFP to TFP,
spend the money.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

Vanessa, the kind of images you need usually are shot by people who
charge.  No disrespect to the talents on MM but most here don't do commercial
work and most won't provide you with the level of images a agency would
want to represent you.  This would not be the case for fashion models who
don't need a book to go to a agency. 

Commercial models tend to need viable work to be seen and taken seriously.
Don't look for TFP for commercial images in other words.  Get around $300.00
or so and call Ford or BMG or another Chicago agency and ask for commercial
shooters they recommend.  They may not provide any names and if not take a
look at local publications and see who's shooting them.  Shooters like Socko and
others do decent commercial work. 

You asked for options.  Rather then waste time running from TFP to TFP,
spend the money.

I would agree with this for the most part but I do think there are some decent commercial shooters on MM -- just think that they are not going to do commercial work for free.

Either way the end result is the same -- she is probably going to have to pay to get what she needs.

But you want to make sure that when you do pay you get what you need.

VanessaNicole wrote:
Why do many photographers on here do not work with anyone under 18? There are more models out there that are under 18 why is that?

Where I live you can't even buy beer... so... take a guess.

VanessaNicole wrote:
Why do many photographers on here do not work with anyone under 18? There are more models out there that are under 18 why is that?

I don't know. I've been hired by a couple of parents to shoot their kids' headshots.  There was no problem. 
As for models on MM the problem is the other way around with me.  The few models who have approached me for shoots disappear as soon as I tell them I need a parent to sign a release and make sure it's notarized.  My guess is they don't want their parent to know they're modeling.