TakaraJayne wrote:
I am new to photographing models and need some tips on how to direct models into the poses that I want. I normally focus on landscapes and still life photographs or if models are involved, people that I know well.

I need to start planning shoots with model's/mua's/wardrobe designers etc but could do with some tips on where to start and how to photograph people I don't know professionally.

Any advice would be great.

Thanks

TakaraJayne

Its always best to begin working with models who are experienced in front of the camera. They will usually have a variety of poses and should be able to work almost without direction. All you would have to worry about with this scenario is your concept and lighting.

I'd also recommend buying a few books on the subject. You will feel much more comfortable after reading a few books on posing in general. Enjoy

TakaraJayne wrote:
I am new to photographing models and need some tips on how to direct models into the poses that I want. I normally focus on landscapes and still life photographs or if models are involved, people that I know well.

I need to start planning shoots with model's/mua's/wardrobe designers etc but could do with some tips on where to start and how to photograph people I don't know professionally.

Any advice would be great.

Thanks

TakaraJayne

Ok, I can only share you what my experience was when I started.

You are ambitious, but please slow down on trying to plan so much team-members for your first shoots. If you can pull it off, great, but don't think its easy like calling them up and asking if they are available. They will, but not for TF.

Just start with you and only the model. Understand how the light falls on her (both natural and strobe/flash) and how you can "manipulate" your composition by having the model turn 45 degrees for example. Have a look and analyze other images to understand how the model posed (and also the lighting, styling etc) and just bring images with you to the shoot and have her do the exact same or similar pose.

Once you have a grip and confidence, expand the team with maybe just one member at the time, I recommend a mua/hair. Followed by mua and hair seperately if you like, then a stylist if you like, etc etc.

Built your team/network easily, don't be hasty or over-confidence.

And finally, doing a good job could mean luck is more nearby than you expected. My luck was the opportunity to shoot a Dutch fashion designer for an American magazine, after only 4 months of photography. And he actually booked two mua/hairs and three models including the 2009 winner of Benelux Next Top Model, himself being a contestant of Dutch Project Runway. I brought my cousin with me to assist and carrying a bag with my light stands and stuff. We had a great day and shoot went awesome, now I still have contact with all of them and we all are looking forward to work together again, maybe not as the entire group but myself definitely with the mua/hairs. I actually worked with the designer a week later when he asked me to shoot his street fashion show.

TakaraJayne wrote:
I am new to photographing models and need some tips on how to direct models into the poses that I want. I normally focus on landscapes and still life photographs or if models are involved, people that I know well.

I need to start planning shoots with model's/mua's/wardrobe designers etc but could do with some tips on where to start and how to photograph people I don't know professionally.

Any advice would be great.

Thanks

TakaraJayne

Are you shooting commercial (catalog and basic fashion poses) or are you shooting more artistic or unorthodox poses? Big difference. As a commercial photographer you should know the basic poses and expressions as much as the model. There are fundamental positions of the head, body, arms, hands, legs and feet. And the variations of those create a cornucopia of possibilities. These are the poses you see in store flyers and catalogs from Macy's, Target, Talbots and more. Even the Victoria Secret models know these poses and I'm betting their photographers know them, too. These poses are designed so the model makes subtle changes in the pose, pauses for the photographer to shoot and then repeats the process. The goal is to end up with 95% of the images as usable photos. If this sounds foreign to you, look for an agency or someplace that offers posing classes taught by someone with industry experience. I sat in on such a class and learned an incredible amount in a short time.

Anything else is pretty much up to you or your model to create on the fly. It's similar to shooting fine art nudes, in a way. The model pretty much creates poses based on inspiration drawn from wardrobe, props and location. If there is no artistic director or client present that want a certain pose or dynamic, then it's up to you or the model to know what looks best based on the lighting, her figure, the way the wardrobe appears to the camera, etc. Modeling clothing is about the clothing, not the model. If you can't keep the focus on the clothing, then you fail as a fashion photographer and the model fails as a fashion model. That's why cliche, over the top glamor poses are so prevalent in newbie model portfolios. These models (and photographers) think modeling is about drawing attention to the model with a sort of "Look at me. I'm a sexy model" pose.

Cheri  Clark wrote:
Sounds sort of disastrous. Get someone to shoot that actually doesn't need a babysitter.

Which part of what is above sounds disastrous and how would you suggest the Op reaches the goals in the thread ?

Cheri  Clark wrote:
Sounds sort of disastrous. Get someone to shoot that actually doesn't need a babysitter. That's how you end up with fun and productive shots. Nothing worse than wasting your time and calling it a "learning experience".

Most people can't REALLY follow directions.

Just my .02 cents worth

I have to agree that shooting with an experienced model and learning from the model is a much better route than the blind leading the blind.  You'll learn a lot by watching them work and you'll get much better results.

It's nice to have some reference materials available for new models if they get "stuck".  One of my friends wrote a nice posing guide:  http://www.powells.com/biblio/91-9780974065588-0 (disclaimer:  I helped with the book, but have no financial interest in it).

I also have a list of poses here.  If a model gets stuck, I will sit down with her and look at different poses (in a separate room from the studio) and talk about what makes the poses "work". 

I like to get them thinking about what they can do to create interesting lines, angles, curves, expressions, etc. as opposed to showing them a picture and saying "OK, copy that pose".

I will also show them how I want them to pose, but I've found that is usually only good for comedic relief and getting the model more relaxed.

Ryan Richardson Photo wrote:
you can model it for them and just tweak.

+1   It took a while for me to be less self conscious doing this, particularly for some poses with female models. I'm glad nobody videos me in action ( other than when I'm covering a prom or the like ). I'd dread to think of the Youtube hits they would have.

Stefano Brunesci wrote:
Find models who know how to pose.

I know that sounds glib, but the best pictures always come from working with models who know what they're doing and who can pre-visualise what you're shooting and adjust their posing to suit.

Sure, sometimes it's necessary to give hints about posing - mostly to do with mood, attitude etc. - but a good model will pick up on your feedback and give you what you want without having to be directed laboriously limb by limb into every pose.



Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

I definitely agree with this. I wouldn't work with a model who couldn't pose (knowingly). I mean is someone truly a model if they can't pose? Models shouldn't have to tell photographers how to adjust lighting correctly (though I've had to do that before *cringe*), so why should you have to give a lot of direction with posing?

I had a photographer bust out a posing book once at a shoot. It was awful because the poses sucked and it was stopping me from doing what felt right to me. I like to be free to move how I feel comfortable behind the camera. If I feel something might work well, I'll do it. I don't always do exact poses photographers ask me to do, either. Simply because a pose that works well for one model may not work for me. I could be less flexible than required, or my body/face may just not be right for a certain pose. It's all about finding what works for that particular model.

I always find that if I can't get a pose right the first few times, it's not going to work at all because it won't be very natural if I keep trying to get into a position that's impossible for me to get into.

But I always try and do my take on every pose I try...I just try and manipulate the pose to work well for me.

BGi Photography wrote:
IM STILL NEW BUT...
I Started by visualizing the actual pose.  If the models are newer and YOU HAVE THE PATIENCE try showing them the pose. That did two things one, it showed them that I'm no prude and have no problem with getting dirty... two it put in in their shoes so to speak and help me understand the reluctance.
Never forget that the model understands you are in charge. I'm not saying bark the order at them but be firm on the pose you want. Dont be afraid to speak freely about the pose.
discuss the concept with the model. If they can visualize the overall theme then they will be able to understand (maybe) the pose you want.
Ask for permission to touch them and guide them into the pose. "Place your hand like this" type of thing.
And if all else fails and you have time, shoot them in a series of poses until you can direct them or have them FREEZE in place.
And have a full-length mirror on hand. It helps if they can see themselves
Bottomline is it takes time.
Trust your vision.

The model understands you are in charge? I think not! It depends on who's paying who, and if it's TF then both should work together!

Erlinda wrote:
Tell the model the mood/concept you are going for in your shoot put some music on and let her/him move. Anything you like or don't like you can tell them to hold it or to move something etc

I hate directing models kills the mood/flow

I agree. I hate being directed. I was okay with it when I first started out because I wanted to learn everything I could.

But now, I just like to be told the concept/theme of the set and I like to do what I want. I'm quite happy to be given criticism every now and then to try and encourage me to do something else, perhaps. It's still good to get another's opinion on things.

I Am Rinaldi wrote:
How many of you when you were starting out had the luxury of working with experienced models on TF base?

Always trade UP



Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Stefano Brunesci wrote:

Always trade UP



Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Yes yes, I know that and I am sure she will if she has the opportunity

I Am Rinaldi wrote:
Excuse me, but I am wondering how many of the people here advising to go with experienced models actually read her profile? It states she is new to model photography and would like to work TF.

How many of you when you were starting out had the luxury of working with experienced models on TF base? Because when I started, I was already happy that some models/girls actually said yes to me when I asked them for a TF shoot, of course after a gazillion others rejected me due being unexperienced and wanted to get paid.

Don't get me wrong here, if someone has the opportunity to work with people that are experienced (model, mua/hair, stylists, etc), its a big plus. But at the same time, I think its valuable to learn how to direct models, not only for the photographer to learn composition but also to communicate properly. Its a dialog, I wouldn't be happy if I only have to set up my gear and pressing the shutter the entire day without directing the model here and there

I'm not a photographer, so I wouldn't know...

But surely there are a lot of new models out there that know how to pose? I'd still be somewhat picky with who I worked with if I was a starting out photographer.

I'd rather wait 2 months to find a model I have faith in (new or otherwise) than a few days to find a crap model. Just my personal opinion really.

I think if I was a starting photographer I'd try and build a good portfolio before joining MM...because people on here seem to be suspicious of GWCs. I'd work with friends and suchlike, as well as finding people locally by talking to people in the street.

BGi Photography wrote:
IM STILL NEW BUT...
I Started by visualizing the actual pose.  If the models are newer and YOU HAVE THE PATIENCE try showing them the pose. That did two things one, it showed them that I'm no prude and have no problem with getting dirty... two it put in in their shoes so to speak and help me understand the reluctance.

Patience is key.  So is having a pose book (one you've made yourself is great, or even multiple options to look though) on set.  But communication (and good communication at that) is more important than patience.  Being able to communicate what you want is far more important than showing a model you're "no prude".  Plus, if a model is reluctant to pose a certain way, it's best to not force her (or him) to do so... the uncomfortableness will likely show in the resulting image.

BGi Photography wrote:
Never forget that the model understands you are in charge. I'm not saying bark the order at them but be firm on the pose you want. Dont be afraid to speak freely about the pose.

Really, the photographer's in charge?  If I'm paying, I'm in charge.  If it's a trade shoot, we're collaborating.  Heck, even if I'm being paid, I'd like to think we're collaborating.  Why?  Because I know how to move my body, what's flattering and what isn't, and what I'm capable of, and 9 times out of 10 if a photographer (especially a new one) tells me to do something without taking my knowledge of my body into account, that shot will look like shit.  I'll still do it, but a new photographer is usually better off allowing a model who knows how to pose to pose.  After all, that's her job.

BGi Photography wrote:
discuss the concept with the model. If they can visualize the overall theme then they will be able to understand (maybe) the pose you want.

Concept discussion should be done way before the shoot.  In fact, after you've set a date and time, you should not only discuss wardrobe, hair and makeup, but take the time to even send the model some poses you like.  That will give her a chance to practice them so she can flow into them easily, making the shoot go more smoothly.

BGi Photography wrote:
Ask for permission to touch them and guide them into the pose. "Place your hand like this" type of thing.

I personally am not a fan of being touch-posed.  Even if asked.  If you're a touch-poser, make sure you can verbally direct as well, and do not rely on physically moving a model in case you find yourself working with someone who says "no" when asked if you can touch them.

BGi Photography wrote:
And if all else fails and you have time, shoot them in a series of poses until you can direct them or have them FREEZE in place.

IMO, a model should almost always constantly be making small movements and adjusting her pose (though this doesn't always apply to art models or those working with long-exposure sets).  A pose that's held for too long tends to look stiff and forced after the third or fourth frame.  Constant small adjustments give a little variety and life to a pose, and help prevent it from being too "dead".

BGi Photography wrote:
And have a full-length mirror on hand. It helps if they can see themselves

Ugh no.  No.  It's a distraction, especially for new models.  You'll end up with a ton of shots of the model looking at the mirror, instead of at the camera.  Not to mention you'd better make sure that that mirror isn't causing reflections and crap.

Maja Stina wrote:

The model understands you are in charge? I think not! It depends on who's paying who, and if it's TF then both should work together!

No, Im not saying it in that manner. I'm saying that its rare that the model directs the photographer. You're correct it does depend on who is paying but a model will choose a photographer who's work they trust. The photographer sees the pose. They should be direct and state clearly on the pose they want. Like Chris Rock said," Nothing you mumble will be get done." be direct and sure. You stopped quoting me. I also said, "do not bark orders at them. but be firm on the pose YOU want."

Maja Stina wrote:
But surely there are a lot of new models out there that know how to pose? I'd still be somewhat picky with who I worked with if I was a starting out photographer.

Yup.  FWIW, new models with dance or martial arts training will most definitely know how to move and be aware of their bodies.  Something to look for when booking someone.

photoimager wrote:

Which part of what is above sounds disastrous and how would you suggest the Op reaches the goals in the thread ?

I would say that the op should probably sit in and watch how it is done. There are so many people here that would love to mentor. I see it on page after page throughout the site. Tag along and watch the whole process from beginning to end.

Then I would start with a model that has shot many times. It seems that everyone is broke right now but you gotta do what ya gotta do so to speak.  (That's how I feel about my college tuition) That simply means paying a model. Learn and watch from her as well.

By disastrous I mean getting all those people together -- example--MUA, Hair Stylist, Wardrobe etc. and not have shot solo first, knowing what you are really doing. Before anyone is in the position to put together a team, they should have experience under their belt. The others involved are counting on the images as well. Believe me, I have had my share of crappy images, even with a team.

Just about every day I get emails from girls here on MM. They want the answer on how to be a model and what to do. There are no clear written instructions for beginners. You can't even tell them, they all must learn by experience and those damn mistakes. It is a process, and there is no website that can really tell anyone how or what to do.

I have been doing this since I was 14. It has taken a long time to be good enough to be picked up by agencies. I have found that shoots don't have to be a all day thing. The best images usually take less than a couple of hours.
Learn, watch and take in all you see. Remember what doesn't work and know when to cut a shoot when it is not clicking.

BGi Photography wrote:

No, Im not saying it in that manner. I'm saying that its rare that the model directs the photographer. You're correct it does depend on who is paying but a model will choose a photographer who's work they trust. The photographer sees the pose. They should be direct and state clearly on the pose they want. Like Chris Rock said," Nothing you mumble will be get done." be direct and sure. You stopped quoting me. I also said, "do not bark orders at them. but be firm on the pose YOU want."

Although the photographer sees the pose, the model feels it. The model probably knows what her body looks like, having lived with it all her life. Model photography has to be a give and take thing. The photographer can't be in charge of the poses simply because they see what is going on, because what the photographer sees as being a good pose, may just not work for the model.

And the model should also be able to do poses that they want, not just the photographer getting the ones they want.

I Am Rinaldi wrote:
Excuse me, but I am wondering how many of the people here advising to go with experienced models actually read her profile? It states she is new to model photography and would like to work TF.

How many of you when you were starting out had the luxury of working with experienced models on TF base? Because when I started, I was already happy that some models/girls actually said yes to me when I asked them for a TF shoot, of course after a gazillion others rejected me due being unexperienced and wanted to get paid.

Don't get me wrong here, if someone has the opportunity to work with people that are experienced (model, mua/hair, stylists, etc), its a big plus. But at the same time, I think its valuable to learn how to direct models, not only for the photographer to learn composition but also to communicate properly. Its a dialog, I wouldn't be happy if I only have to set up my gear and pressing the shutter the entire day without directing the model here and there

The very first model I shot was an experienced model who worked with me for trade.  I didn't have any shots of models, just some photos of landscapes and such, but she was willing to help me and she ended up using a number of the images we made in her portfolio.

You can also break out your checkbook and hire an experienced model(s).  You've spent a bunch of money on a camera, lens, computer, photoshop, etc., why not invest in a good subject also?

Rachel Jay wrote:

Yup.  FWIW, new models with dance or martial arts training will most definitely know how to move and be aware of their bodies.  Something to look for when booking someone.

Yeah, I'd definitely love to work with models that are or have been dancers and suchlike because they tend to be very aware of how they look when they pose...because dancing is about paying attention to detail with that kind of stuff.

Maja Stina wrote:
I'd rather wait 2 months to find a model I have faith in (new or otherwise) than a few days to find a crap model. Just my personal opinion really.

I think if I was a starting photographer I'd try and build a good portfolio before joining MM...because people on here seem to be suspicious of GWCs. I'd work with friends and suchlike, as well as finding people locally by talking to people in the street.

I respect the way you work, but I like the practice of co-creation. There a loads of un-experienced models on MM and they might get rejected by experienced photographers. So when I scroll the list browsing models and see someone that I think would work with the idea in my head, why not ask her? If she says yes, well I got my model. If she says no, I continue my search. MM isn't open only for the best of the best, so why join MM if one already has a good portfolio. Someone with a good portfolio can skip MM and work with models from top agencies. Some photographers here don't have that ambition and just enjoy model photography, others do have that ambition but use MM to built up their port and learn along the way from the experienced who share info in the forums.

Rachel Jay wrote:

BGi Photography wrote:
IM STILL NEW BUT...
I Started by visualizing the actual pose.  If the models are newer and YOU HAVE THE PATIENCE try showing them the pose. That did two things one, it showed them that I'm no prude and have no problem with getting dirty... two it put in in their shoes so to speak and help me understand the reluctance.

Patience is key.  So is having a pose book (one you've made yourself is great, or even multiple options to look though) on set.  But communication (and good communication at that) is more important than patience.  Being able to communicate what you want is far more important than showing a model you're "no prude".  Plus, if a model is reluctant to pose a certain way, it's best to not force her (or him) to do so... the uncomfortableness will likely show in the resulting image.

BGi Photography wrote:
Never forget that the model understands you are in charge. I'm not saying bark the order at them but be firm on the pose you want. Dont be afraid to speak freely about the pose.

Really, the photographer's in charge?  If I'm paying, I'm in charge.  If it's a trade shoot, we're collaborating.  Heck, even if I'm being paid, I'd like to think we're collaborating.  Why?  Because I know how to move my body, what's flattering and what isn't, and what I'm capable of, and 9 times out of 10 if a photographer (especially a new one) tells me to do something without taking my knowledge of my body into account, that shot will look like shit.  I'll still do it, but a new photographer is usually better off allowing a model who knows how to pose to pose.  After all, that's her job.

BGi Photography wrote:
discuss the concept with the model. If they can visualize the overall theme then they will be able to understand (maybe) the pose you want.

Concept discussion should be done way before the shoot.  In fact, after you've set a date and time, you should not only discuss wardrobe, hair and makeup, but take the time to even send the model some poses you like.  That will give her a chance to practice them so she can flow into them easily, making the shoot go more smoothly.

BGi Photography wrote:
Ask for permission to touch them and guide them into the pose. "Place your hand like this" type of thing.

I personally am not a fan of being touch-posed.  Even if asked.  If you're a touch-poser, make sure you can verbally direct as well, and do not rely on physically moving a model in case you find yourself working with someone who says "no" when asked if you can touch them.

BGi Photography wrote:
And if all else fails and you have time, shoot them in a series of poses until you can direct them or have them FREEZE in place.

IMO, a model should almost always constantly be making small movements and adjusting her pose (though this doesn't always apply to art models or those working with long-exposure sets).  A pose that's held for too long tends to look stiff and forced after the third or fourth frame.  Constant small adjustments give a little variety and life to a pose, and help prevent it from being too "dead".


Ugh no.  No.  It's a distraction, especially for new models.  You'll end up with a ton of shots of the model looking at the mirror, instead of at the camera.  Not to mention you'd better make sure that that mirror isn't causing reflections and crap.

Ugh yes... More than a few models have asked to use a mirror.
Like I said Im new. just offering tips. Like a tool box. Or better yet your photo bag. You have tools that you use alot and tools you rarely use. Just my tips.