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Bad remarks on models photos....Why do they get upset ??????
I've only been on MM for a few days now, but after spending hours looking at tags & comments made on idividual pic's, it would appear EVERY MODEL here is a success story in the making ! I have never seen ONE bad post...( your hair looks bad, that dress isn't for you, too much make-up, not enough, your ass is too fat, etc, etc. ). I know I'm not perfect, but its hard me ME to critisize ME....can only do for others, but none of you seem brave enough to say bad things. It seems its the same " I'll pump you up & you pump me up " garbage. If she looks nice, great ! But how can you make positive change with-out negative feedback ???? Not here, not ANYWHERE in life does that happen. Are models THAT thin skinned ? And are photogs that fake ? I sent out a message the other day to a fairly nice looking girl ( not model material in my opinion ) and commented that in the shorts that she had on ( wayyyy too tight ), that perhaps she might wear nothing or a g-string next time, rather than have the panty lines show.....She got upset & fired off a mean responce.....WTF ?? Aug 04 05 06:11 pm Link I give compliments freely. I give criticism only when asked. Check out the critique forum. Aug 04 05 06:14 pm Link Compliments, in order for them to be helpful rather than just flattering need to be specific and warrented. Something like "nice page" or "nice work" is really meaningless unless the model or photographer is told why its nice. I agree that there are far too many tags which don't really say anything helpful. It seems more like a way to get one's name on a page than anything else. I don't grow and I don't think any of us do, with out hearing the why behind either a positive or negative comment. And when we get them, then we need to accept them as an opinion only. We don't need to become defensive or angry. We might even learn something helpful! Aug 04 05 06:32 pm Link It's going to depend a lot on how your criticism was worded. If it was too personal then I can understand the reasoning behind a nasty response, if not the justification. Brian Diaz's approach is probably the one most largely adopted. There are some very fragile egos here - egos that would be utterly and absolutely shredded, smashed, obliterated, spindled, mutilated and torn in the world of land-based modeling. Aug 04 05 06:40 pm Link Posted by Weldphoto: I'm of the opinion that careful flattery is a vital part of networking. It's not always about altruistically imparting wisdom on those who never asked for it. Aug 04 05 06:41 pm Link Posted by Brian Diaz: You are a very wise man. Although I appreciate suggestions that may improve my work, I do not think anyone appreciates unsolicited negitive critiques. That is why there is a critique section. Aug 04 05 07:00 pm Link Well said Reno and Brian. Aug 04 05 07:03 pm Link Posted by BobinAtlanta: Oh... I see... okay... I looked at your portfolio. Let's just talk about the "Your's truly" photo. Aug 04 05 07:08 pm Link Well you can always look at it this way. You go to the page and see 20 shots. You see that only 3-4 have any comments on them. So you figure that 16 shots are so bad that they are meaning less and that the model should get rid of them. Nobody wants to be told 16 times that their work sucks. So they are left with 4 comment shots and 16 shots that need to be replaced? Maybe who knows. And yes unless somebody asks for a critique nobody is really going to say your work sucks. IMHO of course. bs Aug 04 05 07:11 pm Link Posted by Reno Pittner: Posted by Jeff Bowlin: Thanks! More confidence boost for me! Aug 04 05 07:11 pm Link Posted by Brian Diaz: Brian! You ROCK!!! Aug 04 05 07:13 pm Link I don't know what to say. Just be straightfoward to the models. Aug 04 05 07:16 pm Link Udo R....1st off, I'm not the model, so your critisizm of me is meaningless. Secondly, the post was more about models opinions rather than yours, so again, meaningless. When you have something wise ( not wise ass ) to say, in an appropiate thread, FEEL FREE. Aug 04 05 07:55 pm Link Posted by BobinAtlanta: I think it's best to reserve negative comments until comments are ASKED for. To run around sharing negative thoughts really sounds mean. Aug 04 05 08:14 pm Link I think it's best to reserve negative comments until comments are ASKED for. To run around sharing negative thoughts really sounds mean. No one wants to walk around the mall and have someone walk up to them and say, "Hey, you're ugly." But those same people would likely not mind if you said, "Hey, you look great!" Without someone asking for your opinion, it's kind of arrogant to assume they'll benefit from your negative opinion. Shorts were too tight? Maybe they were SUPPOSED to be for that picture? This doesn't have to be a kiss my ass website. If you feel someone could benefit from your wisdom, ask if they would be interested in hearing your critique. Wonderful, and your RIGHT too, it was meant to be that way for the shot as I found out on her responce. But you missed the point TOTALLY. People come on and say " Check out my pics & tell me what you think ". I'm not one to beat around the bush, and I won't say the King has clothes when he doesn't ( as the crowd did ). I give out compliments & have on many models here. However, if asked what I think, and I say the truth, don't get upset....get a skin. As I said, in EVERY area of life, the negative improves...." Oh, that dress doesn't make you look fat " when its a lie, DOES NOT help the persons look, only the ego. Aug 04 05 08:31 pm Link Posted by Brian Diaz: Ditto Aug 04 05 08:51 pm Link Criticism is appreciated in my opinion, esp. for my personal port. How can one grow without learning from others? And it is true a lot of models go for pics that (in their opinion) make them look "pretty", not necessarily the best shots... it is true what they say that a lot of models do not know their best shots, and in some cases should not choose them on their own. I for one keep all posts up, even the critical ones. I've never had a blatantly rude or insulting comment, however I feel those are the only ones that shouldn't be tolerated, as they aren't helpful. Aug 04 05 08:58 pm Link Posted by Brian Diaz: That's why we love you Brian. You have been such a great help to Jess' work. Aug 04 05 09:00 pm Link Posted by BobinAtlanta: I don't for a second condone lying. That's false flattery, not the careful flattery I try to employ. False flattery sucks and should only be used when you want to make out with a drunk girl. (Jokes aren't technically lies, right?) Aug 04 05 09:00 pm Link Posted by Jessica L: Okay, this thread is officially too good for my ego...but I can't complain Aug 04 05 09:01 pm Link If you want to critique someone, go ahead and critique me. Go ahead. Seriously. GO. Now. Honest, it's okay. Posted by BobinAtlanta: Aug 04 05 09:02 pm Link Posted by BobinAtlanta: For those that say, Check out my pics and tell me what you think...for those people, they just opened the door to EVERYTHING (without being rude/mean of course). They should expect criticism. Aug 04 05 09:06 pm Link Forgot to mention that I don't have TIGHT skin per se....It's pretty thick, I gave birth 7 years ago. But go ahead. Go. Oh, do we really need to start this again? Posted by BobinAtlanta: Aug 04 05 09:07 pm Link Posted by BobinAtlanta: "let go of my Eggo" Aug 04 05 09:09 pm Link Criticism for models is like your significant other asking if she looks fat in this. So provide sincere complements until it hurts, then stuff your mouth full of potato chips so she can't hear your true criticism. Aug 04 05 09:13 pm Link I think a thick skin is necessary for any subjective art. I have a degree in creative writing, and I'll tell you, it's not easy sitting in a class of other students talking about what's wrong with your poetry. And the rule in workshop classes was that the critiquee was not allowed to talk--it's too easy to make excuses if you can speak. Four years of that, and you'll learn to let the stupid criticisms roll off your back and to absorb the intelligent ones. I recommend it. Aug 04 05 09:22 pm Link achoo Aug 04 05 09:23 pm Link I think one of the main things people forget, is it's a business of OPINIONS, and the one that counts the most is the CLIENT'S!! (you remember..the reason we're all here anyway??) I think Dawn Elizabeth is GORGEOUS!! Her photos are really great--shot by a variety of photographers, and styled very well.....obviously, a mature portfolio OK...If I HAVE to pick one...there's a photo on the right side of the page...very 80's styling...white skirt, blue top, black belt. GIRL! Your hips look a MILE WIDE!! Obviously they aren't, judging from the rest of your photos. But some dopey art director is gonna see that one, and decide you're ALL WRONG! Make that one go AWAY! Now...someone else may LOVE that photo...but I think it's very unflattering. BTW...I LOVE the one across from it in the long skirt, looking over your shoulder....I tend to like photos that are less about "Look at me...I'm a model" and this one succeeds greatly! (Now that wasn't so hard, was it?) I guess my point is...why tear somebody down....if you really think a photo is a mistake..approach gently--if ALL their photos are bad, then why do you think YOU are going to make any difference in their life? ENCOURAGE one another, and provide gentle steering with carefully expressed opinions. Aug 04 05 09:33 pm Link A large percentage of people on this site are hobbiest and while they may want to get better, they want to do so in a way that remains enjoyable to them. When things like eating are primarily dependent on you adapting to the market you are in, people are far more willing to grow thicker skin, take their licks and keep on keeping on. Those who are here for fun want kudos and even though they may want to keep getting better, they want to get better from experience, but VERY RARELY do they actually want a genuine critique. Andy Aug 04 05 09:43 pm Link the problem is the negative comments are very rarely written like a genuine critique, more like slander. one model I work with, a very gorgeous gentleman, has had comments posted like you look gay. that is not a critique, that is not an ok comment to post. I very rarely have anyone say anything bad about my work, to my face (which here would be as a tag or a comment on my port.) The only things are not helpful. I am never listed as one of the best photographers on this site, nor as the worst, so take what I say with whatever wisdom you think they have. Star Aug 04 05 09:56 pm Link My late great Granny once said... "There's TRUTH and then there's HONESTY. The difference is the TRUTH is like someone punching you in the stomach, HONESTY is being spanked on the butt. They both hurt but a spanking won't knock the wind out of ya!" Peggy Aug 04 05 10:04 pm Link Bob, MM is mostly a play site. There are very few actual working models or photographers here. Consequently, the "great work" tag gets passed around amongst those who are desperate to convince themselves that they "belong." They're occasionally worth a bit of humor now and then but aren't anything to get overly concerned with. Again, it's just a play site. Aug 04 05 10:14 pm Link then why are you here if you deem it a "play site"?? xxx MP Posted by IndianaGlamour: Aug 04 05 10:16 pm Link There is such a thing as constructive criticism - I prefer those sorts of comments on my modeling work & my photography work (hypolux/19988) because I often can glean something useful from them. I'm always happy to hear if people like my work, but for me, its helpful (not to mention interesting) to know why or why not. Posters comment: "Great Shot/Pose" My mental reaction: "um okay, but WHY?" I actually don't mind if my work gets ripped to shreds in a crit - that was often the most useful part of my training when studying photography & it was given, not to mention a necessity, when I was working towards my philosophy degree. A painter friend once remarked "Since when did "play nice" and art go together?" - and I have to say I couldn't come up with any argument to the contrary. Thick skin is important when it comes to this field - but so is respect and professionalism, as with most everything else. If negative feedback is given in a respectful and constructive way it can be very useful and I'm always appreciative of the time others have taken to share their thoughts. If the negative feedback is done in a crass manner that indicates little thought went into it at all, then it gets the consideration it deserves, which is none. Regardless, I'm just getting another persons opinion; I can take it or leave it, but either way, I'll probably learn something from it!  ...of course, I also realise much of what goes into commenting when it comes to online sites such as MM is done with the intention of networking above anything else - so I also really don't expect any in depth critiques, either. ^^ Aug 05 05 04:27 pm Link I had a model send me repeated messages and leave multiple comments stating that my work is "trash." no provocation at all... point being, some people just like to be mean. the criticisms are good for us, just as long as they're criticisms and not simply a display of rudeness. I left her comments up on some of my photos. Haven't decided if I should remove them or not. Aug 07 05 10:01 am Link Posted by BobinAtlanta: After looking at your portfolio your work is nothing to be impressed about nor are you, would you like me to critique the people you shoot, you aren't all that and a bag of chips. I personally think you should keep your mouth shut. Aug 07 05 10:42 am Link Posted by BobinAtlanta: I've only been on MM for a few days now, but after spending hours looking at tags & comments made on idividual pic's, it would appear EVERY MODEL here is a success story in the making ! I have never seen ONE bad post...( your hair looks bad, that dress isn't for you, too much make-up, not enough, your ass is too fat, etc, etc. ). I know I'm not perfect, but its hard me ME to critisize ME....can only do for others, but none of you seem brave enough to say bad things. It seems its the same " I'll pump you up & you pump me up " garbage. If she looks nice, great ! But how can you make positive change with-out negative feedback ???? Not here, not ANYWHERE in life does that happen. Are models THAT thin skinned ? And are photogs that fake ? I sent out a message the other day to a fairly nice looking girl ( not model material in my opinion ) and commented that in the shorts that she had on ( wayyyy too tight ), that perhaps she might wear nothing or a g-string next time, rather than have the panty lines show.....She got upset & fired off a mean responce.....WTF ?? After looking at your portfolio your work is nothing to be impressed about nor are you, would you like me to critique the peopl you shoot, you aren't all that and a bag of chips. I personally think you should keep your mouth shut. Well you said it way better than I was going to or could have even begun to say about his work. Thanks for the help. bs Aug 07 05 10:48 am Link not a problem bobby... Aug 07 05 11:31 am Link Some of us truly are looking to grow. If we dont get the truth especially from a site like this we can't adjust and improve. Not everybody has the opportunity to hit the streets everyday on go sees to hear what they NEED to hear from the people in thier own industry.This site is most useful to all if your comments are tactifully truthful. Aug 07 05 02:41 pm Link One only has to look at the source of the critique to decide on wearing thick skin and respecting it or just laughing. Adam and Bobby S. obviously know what I'm talking about. Aug 07 05 02:56 pm Link |
