Rick Fink wrote:
I am absolutely not a manager for anyone!

You say you try to get paid work for models but are running into photographers who won't pay.

Can you elaborate on how this does not imply that you are soliciting and negotiating on behalf of models?

Rick Fink wrote:
I am absolutely not a manager for anyone!

What do you mean when you say you are trying to find models work?

Rick Fink wrote:
I try to get paid work for a lot of the models I work with but keep running into the fact that many experienced photogs want to do trades or get paid themselves!

Augustine York wrote:
I always get paid.

But, sometimes that payment is in images, not US dollars.

I'm fine with that.

+1!!

Aswald wrote:

+1!!

Augustine York wrote:
I always get paid.

But, sometimes that payment is in images, not US dollars.

I'm fine with that.

Some people seem to think TFP is free. As you pointed out, it is not.

Rick Fink wrote:
I really think that photogs should generally pay models for shoots!

I try to get paid work for a lot of the models I work with but keep running into the fact that many experienced photogs want to do trades or get paid themselves!

My feeling is that the model and I co-create the images but since I ask her to sign a release form she should get paid.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because I see talented models and photogs butting heads over should a nude shoot be paid or trade.

Then there's the implication that any photog worth his salt won't pay models and only the GWC's pay.

Even if it's a totally trade shoot I'll offer the model $25 for her signature on the release form.

I think YOU should continue to pay all of the models YOU work with.

Also, as others have pointed out, it sounds to me like you are trying to play SLUGGO errrr, model manager, and I do believe that is not allowed on MM, however, I could be wrong

Augustine York wrote:
I always get paid.

But, sometimes that payment is in images, not US dollars.

I'm fine with that.

Absolutely! +100

Rick Fink wrote:
I try to get paid work for a lot of the models I work with

So you're a model "manager?"

Caradoc wrote:

So you're a model "manager?"

He's probably just one of those nice guys that lets a model know who in the area is known to have paid castings. I don't know why he decided to put up this thread branding himself a well intentioned white knight but the above part makes sense to me

Artemis Bare wrote:
He's probably just one of those nice guys that lets a model know who in the area is known to have paid castings. I don't know why he decided to put up this thread branding himself a well intentioned white knight but the above part makes sense to me

the fact that the thread is in the model forum seems like he wanted attention from the models, (with white knight replies) not the people he should be directing his post to, in the photography forum

Rick Fink wrote:
I really think that photogs should generally pay models for shoots!

I try to get paid work for a lot of the models I work with but keep running into the fact that many experienced photogs want to do trades or get paid themselves!

My feeling is that the model and I co-create the images but since I ask her to sign a release form she should get paid.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because I see talented models and photogs butting heads over should a nude shoot be paid or trade.

Then there's the implication that any photog worth his salt won't pay models and only the GWC's pay.

Even if it's a totally trade shoot I'll offer the model $25 for her signature on the release form.

I agree especially if the photographer plans to profit from the picture at some point. It's your picture forever, I get no binifit from it later. KWIM?

SouthFLpix wrote:
What this really boils down to is just a 'white knight' post. I vote that this should be locked as soon as possible to avoid the trainwreck.

I'm waiting for the Nazi topic to come up.

K I S S  wrote:

the fact that the thread is in the model forum seems like he wanted attention from the models, (with white knight replies) not the people he should be directing his post to, in the photography forum

No argument on that front. I'm just saying I doubt that phrase means he's a model manager. I am of course willing to be wrong *shrug*

Rick Fink wrote:
I really think that photogs should generally pay models for shoots!

I try to get paid work for a lot of the models I work with but keep running into the fact that many experienced photogs want to do trades or get paid themselves!

My feeling is that the model and I co-create the images but since I ask her to sign a release form she should get paid.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because I see talented models and photogs butting heads over should a nude shoot be paid or trade.

Then there's the implication that any photog worth his salt won't pay models and only the GWC's pay.

Even if it's a totally trade shoot I'll offer the model $25 for her signature on the release form.

Gee, what would models do wthout you?

Rick Fink wrote:
I really think that photogs should generally pay models for shoots!

I try to get paid work for a lot of the models I work with but keep running into the fact that many experienced photogs want to do trades or get paid themselves!

My feeling is that the model and I co-create the images but since I ask her to sign a release form she should get paid.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because I see talented models and photogs butting heads over should a nude shoot be paid or trade.

Then there's the implication that any photog worth his salt won't pay models and only the GWC's pay.

Even if it's a totally trade shoot I'll offer the model $25 for her signature on the release form.

I would pay a model IF I had no intention of giving her any images from the shoot. If said model decides she wants images later on then she would have to buy them from me ...  Or we could just trade from the start...

Artemis Bare wrote:

No argument on that front. I'm just saying I doubt that phrase means he's a model manager. I am of course willing to be wrong *shrug*

Normally I would agree with you, but not for the next sentence where he says he runs into photographers who won't pay. If he were merely pointing out those photographers who do pay, that next sentence would not be there. It is. QED.

Rick Fink wrote:
I really think that photogs should generally pay models for shoots!

I try to get paid work for a lot of the models I work with but keep running into the fact that many experienced photogs want to do trades or get paid themselves!

My feeling is that the model and I co-create the images but since I ask her to sign a release form she should get paid.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because I see talented models and photogs butting heads over should a nude shoot be paid or trade.

Then there's the implication that any photog worth his salt won't pay models and only the GWC's pay.

Even if it's a totally trade shoot I'll offer the model $25 for her signature on the release form.

And your point by telling us how you choose to do business is?

Other than the fact that you position yourself more as a model manager by "getting paid work for YOUR models..." I'm not sure why you think this should apply to every photographer/model relationship.

Then again, when you're looking for potential models, this would be a white knight-y kind of thread to direct them to.

And how is it a "totally trade shoot" if you're compensating the model in cash? That, by definition, is not a trade shoot. It's you paying a model. That's like saying you're shooting a print ad on trade...but they're paying me a few hundred dollars for my time.

Or do you mean the model is expecting a straight trade and out of the kindness of your heart you decide to give her $25 at the end of the shoot? That's a nice personal gesture but it sure isn't a solid business practice.

Rick Fink wrote:
A lot of you seem to think I'm secretly a manager.

Maybe I'm secretly a model who has bopped a photog on his head and stolen his identity in order to make outrageous claims!

And if anyone thinks this thread is a waste of time then quit wasting your time.

I think working for 25.00 is a waste of time.

Rick Fink wrote:
I am absolutely not a manager for anyone!

The thread came up because a talented model I have worked with and paid each time was having trouble getting paid for a nude shoot!

Most photogs tell the models that they need to beef up their portfolios before they find paying work and then the paying work is not there!

If I contact a model and ask her to work with me I pay her.

Good for you.  You are, of course, free to continue that practice.

Death of Field wrote:

I think working for 25.00 is a waste of time.

Rick Fink wrote:
A lot of you seem to think I'm secretly a manager.

.

I think you misunderstand. Nothing secret about it.

You try to get paid work for models and clearly, from your own statement, interact with photographers who don't want to pay those models. How is negotiating on behalf of models not acting as a manager? You may not be hired to perform those services, per se, but you're admittedly performing them nonetheless.

If you're intention was to appeal to photographers benevolent side, why post this in the Model Forum? This thread should have been titled, "I'll be your daddy."

Rick Fink wrote:
I try to get paid work for a lot of the models I work with but keep running into the fact that many experienced photogs want to do trades or get paid themselves!

ForeverFotos wrote:
I'm just guessing, but have you set yourself up as a model manager? In that case, you're just looking for a little percentage, am I right? Please tell me I'm wrong, that would make me feel much better.

I really think you should be aware of the fact that "model managers" are not allowed to operate on this site.

I don't act as a "model Manager."  I do refer models to photographers I know of who pay, for whatever reason.  I also refer people who are seeking models to models I know of who have done a good job.  What I get out of it is a stronger relationship with a model or photographer, and sometimes the opportunity to work with a model who can afford to come to my area because of the paid shoots.

When I started, I paid a lot of fantastic models to help me build a portfolio.  Over the last couple years, I've mostly done trade, but I've been paid a little more by models than I've paid them  Sadly, so far not enough to cover other costs.  I would love to reach the point in photographic and marketing skill where my work generates a lot of revenue and I can pay pros to help me produce better and better gallery and publication work.

Rick Fink wrote:
Then there's the implication that any photog worth his salt won't pay models and only the GWC's pay.

Duncan Hall wrote:
That's not an implication, that's fact. They can pay me if they want.

That's as off base as the OP.

Michael Pandolfo wrote:

.

I think you misunderstand. Nothing secret about it.

You try to get paid work for models and clearly, from your own statement, interact with photographers who don't want to pay those models. How is negotiating on behalf of models not acting as a manager? You may not be hired to perform those services, per se, but you're admittedly performing them nonetheless.

If you're intention was to appeal to photographers benevolent side, why post this in the Model Forum? This thread should have been titled, "I'll be your daddy."

"daddy" doesn't try to get men to pay for pics of his daughters...

Rick Fink wrote:
I really think that photogs should generally pay models for shoots!

I try to get paid work for a lot of the models I work with but keep running into the fact that many experienced photogs want to do trades or get paid themselves!

My feeling is that the model and I co-create the images but since I ask her to sign a release form she should get paid.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because I see talented models and photogs butting heads over should a nude shoot be paid or trade.

Then there's the implication that any photog worth his salt won't pay models and only the GWC's pay.

Even if it's a totally trade shoot I'll offer the model $25 for her signature on the release form.

As with everything, it depends.  Context is important.

But with all things being fair and equal, getting a signed release is worthy of compensation.  Assuming these are the typical cookie cutter releases that allow the photographer to anything they want and not just limiting themselves to portfolio.

Rick Fink wrote:
Could we leave this in the Models forum?

No, as it was directed to photographers.

You are welcome to start a thread directed at models discussing issues you believe they need to be aware of, and put that in model colloquy