J Merrill Images wrote:
In the end, its about fairness and its about what works for us as individuals at a specific point in our photographic lives. If it works, do it. If not, don't. Not too complicated!

You be fair... I'm in business to make a living and business is not fair.

Studio36

aye provide wrote:
I know what I want from a TFP session, a few quality prints and the chance for a section in his/her book and it seems many photographers are not giving it. 

Copyright?  Why bother asking for a shared one? Models if you are seeking web content just save $$ and shop for a reasonable shooter that can give you what you seek. Skip the hassle if you want full use of a set of pic just pay for want you need and be done.

As a "sub" you should be used to it aye. LOL

As a pro and a really nice guy (AS YOU KNOW!) I would give you what you need, and what we agree on, as long as it is within reason... even off a TFP / TFCD.


Studio36

Adam Chilson wrote:
Well, from the minority wings, I do it all the time. Don't care. I'd rather work with people I want to work with. Don't want the hastle of hunting down a model for a few bucks they get down the line. Better to spend my time and energy creating new imagery than get bogged down chasing copyright issues on trade work.

However, there are projects (usually where I'm paying a model) that the copyright is guarded VERY jealously. Pick your battles. My motto, anyway.

If I pay a model, there is no way in hell she gets copyright, in fact i've never given out copyright.  But a paid model does not get any images at all, I figure she's already being paid, if she wants prints she can buy a couple off me.

JG Photography wrote:

Well I'm sure I speak from the minority here, but I personally would be okay with it. Now let me explain why... I'm a photographer mostly as a hobby right now. It has absolutely nothing to do with my career. Eventually I would like to get into the portrait business as a side business, but I'm not there yet. When the day comes that I'm trying to bring in some income from photography then my feelings will most likely change regarding this matter.

For you folks who do this for a living and use your art to put meals on the table and kids through school then I could see why this would be undesireable to you.

Cheers,
JG

You never know when a person will hit it big..become a news story or celebrity..or the photo itself will become something well known and widely used in pop culture. Just think recent use of old "Dukes of Hazzard " promo stills.  Or old Marilyn Monroe photos.   Images are earning money.........yet. Maybe it won't be your case, or mine but nice to know we have that copyright protection.

kat_o_9 wrote:

Good point Jim.  The problem is that most photographers tend to want a contract signed for TFP.  A lot of the time, the contracts used are the contracts that say that the photographers have all the rights to use and sell the images and that the model has very little rights.  Some add a usage clause for the model, some don't.  I think as long as the TFP contract is fair for both the model and the photographer, copyright doesn't even come into play really.

Kat and Jim, I can't agree with you more. The original question was about TFP, and to ME - TFP should be equitable but it's also "assumed" to be non-commerical, which means, NEITHER party can use the work to make a profit.  If you want to sell or use the images for profit (commercial) then a separate agreement should be worked out between the model and the photographer prior to the shoot. It too should be equitable to both parties. (that's just good business.)

I have said in other posts and numerous times, the agreement that most photographers ask a model to sign, I would not sign if the roles were reversed. These agreements ask the model to sign away her rights on a TFP shoot; I think that's unrealistic. If the model gets paid, then she will be asked to sign such an agreement and visa versa, if the photographer is paid, he will relinquish copyright because it's a paid job like any other.  Of course, all things are negotiable and variations can be worked out in the releases.

Yes, I shoot the pictures and I own the copyright and don't intend to share my copyrights, however; the USAGE of those images for commerical purposes is a completely different matter/question/issue, which seems to be where this tread headed.

I don't think a model needs to share the copyright, but they SHOULD have specific RIGHTS to usage, and the photographer should be equally bound by the agreement.

I hope that clarified what I said originally, that wasn't written very well (as this post might also suffer from).