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Models that don't know how to model
Mosttry wrote: I thought he was a sculptor or is this why I've never seen any of his paintings. ;o) Oct 16 11 04:47 pm Link Koa, We do all have to learn, but I didn't lean photography from the model - I am seeing some flawed logic here. Oct 16 11 04:54 pm Link AJScalzitti wrote: We do all have to learn, but I did'nt learn photography from the sun. - I am seeing some flawed logic here. That's right, I have to learn how the light from the sun works in order to properly set my camera. Same with models. I have to learn how they work so I can set myself to better work with them. Oct 16 11 05:10 pm Link And to those who think my logic is flawed, then I'd hate to see you doing portrait work. It does not matter how many times a person has had their portrait made, you still have to direct them to get the best image. Or, do you just say, "Stand there and smile" and go *CLICK*, done!? Really! -Koa- Oct 16 11 05:14 pm Link Mark Kwiatkowski wrote: If a model sucks it shouldn't take 800 shots to figure that out. I'd argue that if they're good it won't take you that many shots either, but it's your choice if you want to create that many images to go through. If the model had 2 expressions, why shoot each one 400 times? Oct 16 11 05:17 pm Link -Koa- wrote: Two different worlds. I expect to have to demostrate and mime out things for a non model or a new model in development. The issue the OP had was with a model and frankly if you are shooting with a model you should not expect to have to provide that level of coaching, it should be out of the ordinary and never with a agency signed model. Oct 16 11 05:28 pm Link I can't tell you what YOU should do, but I will tell you what I would say. Very simply. "Honestly, it's not the kind of thing that I do. But there are photographers that do this sort of thing, and I'm sure they could help you with this." More of less. ;-) -JULIAN Oct 16 11 05:42 pm Link You have 800 photos of disgust peppered with crazy eyes with crooked fingers Thanks for making me laugh Whenever I take photos I usually curse at people until they emote Oct 16 11 05:47 pm Link Having worked with all kinds of models and brides (wedding photography), I can say that it sounds like you were missing rapport. If you're getting disgust out of a model there's a connection missing between the two of you. How do you build that rapport? Talk to her. Ask her what she does, what she wants to do, what kind of music she listens to, what she does for fun, etc. Get to know her as a person a little. Then the expression you'll get from an inexperienced model will go from disgust to "is this what you want?" Then you have to let them relax and get used to being in front of a camera. You can help the process along with coaching and directing. Coaching and directing requires you know what you want and you know how to describe it. Is it a simple smile or more of seeing a friend and saying "Hey!" smile, or is it the open mouth smile? Also show her the pick on your camera if shooting digital. Then you can discuss what you're getting with her. "See, you're looking a little surprised in these shots, if we could dial that back a bit this would *really* work." Be nice, be positive and relate to your subject as a person, let her know what you want and help her deliver it as much as you can. The subject of your photo is more important than what kind of camera you use to capture it/her/him. Oct 16 11 06:18 pm Link AJScalzitti wrote: As I already stated, some models are naturals. Other's are not. Oct 16 11 07:53 pm Link Mark Kwiatkowski wrote: Don't ask her to smile. Make her smile. Oct 16 11 09:51 pm Link Cuica Cafezinho wrote: +1 Oct 16 11 09:55 pm Link Great stuff here guys. I've only shot a small handfull of models that I didn't already know and it was awkward for both of us at first, but I just kept chatting them up, being playfull, silly, stupid, whatever. I just pulled the camera out and started shooting them before we were any where near ready. While we were still talking about the trip or the weather. I don't have much technical skill yet, heck I still don't know what half the settings on my T1 even do, lol, but I ended up with shots of models that actually look like real emotions, so I'd have to say just goofing off seems to work for me. As far as getting them "real," I mean. If I look stupid and relaxed they don't mind looking stupid and relaxed maybe? Go ahead. Door open. Oct 16 11 11:01 pm Link obviously I'm talking about work between newbies... someone that knows what they're doing might not be so relaxed Oct 16 11 11:03 pm Link Funny but I thought you were describing a scene out of the exhorcist where then the 360 degree head turn happens. Yikes- just gives me the creeps! That being said. I had a newbie model that thank goodness I had index cards with poses on them which saved the day. Also the face look stiffed with no emotion. Oct 16 11 11:53 pm Link i think every model should watch this, i think i may make it a required prerequisite for all my new models. from mm's own lucima http://lucimablog.blogspot.com/2011/05/ … ience.html Oct 17 11 12:00 am Link Mark Kwiatkowski wrote: To all those that responded in the affirmative to this point, it is possible that they were missing one particular point. Oct 18 11 03:19 pm Link 95536 wrote: More people should think like this. Oct 18 11 03:23 pm Link here is my two cents are an amateur. I absolutely hate it when the model expects me to know everything about what she should do (if its her project). If its my project, I generally know what I want her to do. Then there is the rare case where you get the person like in the OP. Here is what you do: be natural and have fun with it. Loosen her up, tell her jokes, get a laugh out of her. Do some fun shots like her waving her hair around or jumping in the air. Go effin nuts. I usually quote the austin powers photoshoot scene. The reason being is that the model is being too tense or nervous, even if they don't appear so. Once they loosen up, you will get some good photos. Instead of say pose, say pretend your a super model and do a crazy pose lol Oct 18 11 03:30 pm Link I think someone should post up in serious critique.... too much cake and no icing. Oct 18 11 03:31 pm Link -Koa- wrote: No, sorry. As you say you've not worked with pro models. Any team lives or dies from the skill of the team, including the leader. What you're talking about is a very micro management team, not a creative team. Oct 18 11 03:36 pm Link -Koa- wrote: Portrait and model photography share very little in common from an effective directing perspective. Oct 18 11 03:39 pm Link ACPhotography wrote: I have a known shooter friend who is always done with a shoot in 45 minutes, tops. Knows what he wants, shoots it and is done. Oct 18 11 03:41 pm Link Models KNOW how to model. I have shot with several that go from pose to pose while I shoot. I don't expect her to know photography, either Oct 18 11 03:42 pm Link 95536 wrote: Yep! Comes from the mentality of keeping one's finger on the shutter hoping something good will come out if one shoots enough shots Oct 18 11 03:45 pm Link Experienced models are great. Those other models without a lot of experience need to get some experience - somewhere. I shoot a lot of new, inexperienced models as well as those with experience or those I have shot over and over again giving us something of a "used to each other" working relationship. Once in a while, though, you'll get a model who is frustrating. You really should know how to overcome a situation like that, how she should or could pose, what light is best, what angle is best. That said, there are still some models who suck at modeling. Waiting around to "capture something" should not be your job. It should not be like that at all. Taking 800 pictures... this tells me that you either have a really long shoot, have a lot of time to go through things and make selections or are doing spray and pray hoping that with enough shots SOMETHING might not look too bad. I also think that with time you will narrow this down considerably and be able to identify much sooner what is and is not working - and then make corrections. Oct 18 11 03:46 pm Link There are reasons agencies are so picky. Its not just about how a model looks but can she emote. Is she able to move fluidly. Is she relaxed and free. Sometimes you have to know when to bag a shoot. The OP continued hoping for some decent looks and poses but 800 images is far too many. A few weeks ago, I did a session with a awful model. She was stiff and awkward but worse it was oblivious before the shoot she didn't like me. I became uncomfortable around her quickly and should have stopped shooting but she had come a long way. So, I did around fifty images and emailed her 20. None of which, I liked or would use. The lesson here stop if things aren't right. If the model isn't working for you. If her expressions, make-up, clothes or location aren't working, stop. If its a unpaid Test then the ideal is to get useable images. If that isn't likely then stop. If you are being paid then your are obligated to produce work she will like or do the best that you can. Oct 18 11 04:05 pm Link Doug Jantz wrote: It's called throwing shit at the wall and hoping something sticks!!!! Oct 18 11 05:34 pm Link Dang. That's a lot of pictures! I quit after 2 hours (tops and maybe 200 and less). Otherwise, there have been "stiff" models that I've worked with from this site and it's just frustrating to try and get something out of them and not be able to and for one, I was able to freely chat with her (she was easy to chat with and everything but I didn't really like the images that I got... nor the area that she picked). But oh well, I'll work with them once and probably not work with them again if I don't care for what they were unable to produce (And I'm sure the same applies to those who don't like my work). Oct 18 11 06:49 pm Link JSL wrote: I'm pretty sure that happened to everyone of us. Oct 18 11 07:01 pm Link Not everyone is a professional model, but everyone is a human being. I took a class with a great artist some time ago who explained that a good photograph is about truth. Anyone can throw themselves into a pose, set up a scene, do makeup and clothing, the masters reproduce and capture truth. Modeling, acting, is about faking position and emotion, but not everyone has voluntary control over every aspect of their expression. Help your model to experience an emotion rather than just attempting to replicate it. Anyone can rent a studio and fill it with $30,000 worth of gear, not everyone can direct a model. Uncomfortable shows through. If you can start from a relaxed state you can build other emotions on top. Set the scene, tell a story, whatever, just don't stand there and click away. My girlfriend is very pretty (at least I think so) and she has a pretty good range. She's an outstanding musician, dancer and singer. As my part-time model she takes direction well, but sometimes she just has off days. "Sorry hunny, this just isn't working, lets go have lunch and try again later," is an option, otherwise start talking about something else, ask them to adjust their hair and just start shooting out of nowhere. Talk the entire time if you have to. 800 is crazy. I shoot alot. This weekend I did a gig for a two member music group. In 3 hours I shot like 600, most of which were frame for frame duplicates due to my heavy finger, and produced about 400 useable images (with lots of dupes and action sequences) and about 150 unique images and sequence compilations. Sometimes running the camera can help them settle in and "feel like a model," but if you are shooting instead of talking, it's not going to work. Oct 18 11 07:28 pm Link 800 photos?? 10 is good enough, Oct 18 11 07:54 pm Link coffee_high wrote: 10 good ones is enough. 1 good one is enough. Oct 18 11 08:33 pm Link Doug Jantz wrote: I get more and more like this after every shoot. Oct 18 11 08:48 pm Link Mark Laubenheimer wrote: If you're spraying and praying, sure. If you know what you want it's a completely different story. Oct 18 11 08:48 pm Link Yes, 800 pictures would be a record for me. The most I have ever done is closer to 300. Today I have run it even lower. It is better to shoot effectively and not get tired in the process. Oct 18 11 11:52 pm Link Mark Kwiatkowski wrote: Were you shooting a short wedding? lol. 800 is ALOT for one model. I mean I shoot about 120 and that's three looks with different lighting setups. To each his own. You may wear your model down shooting 800 frames unless your rapid firing. Oct 18 11 11:55 pm Link Mosttry wrote: I've directed actors, I directed plays professionally. You can coach and make small improvements, but someone knows how to act or they don't. You're not likely to get a great performance out of someone who hasn't trained and learned their craft. Oct 19 11 12:06 am Link R A V E N D R I V E wrote: This is your answer. Oct 19 11 12:32 am Link Rodney Almore Photos wrote: It isn't... and it's because all you'll get is bored faces with a pose which looks similar to what you did. That's *not* a model using my definition at least. Oct 19 11 01:24 am Link |