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"model manager" trouble
hey everyone so i'm having a little trouble with a "model manager"...here's the scoop: about a month ago i did a tfp shoot with a model i met through a model site like this one,we met up,decided on doing a beach shoot,etc...anyway after the shoot she told me she was represented by this guy.now i actually knew who he was ,i assumed he was the basic GWC.so a few days later he's writing me saying that the model and him wanted dual copyright of the images and that i could only use images that he ok'd...now this was all new to me and i said no, i wasn't going to give up copyright of my images and i didn't see why he had any say in the matter because he came on board after the shoot had already happened....in the last couple of weeks the model has dropped him as a "rep" because he was controlling and creepy..yet last night he emailed me saying he was getting his lawyers after me for going behind his back and getting the model to sign a release without his permission(she's fine with the release,she even retold me again today) so now i'm kinda freaking out cause this all started off as a basic little shoot to build some images for my portfolio(and the model's portfolio) and now he's harassing me with legal action even though he doesn't even rep the model anymore and she's ok with the images any opinions? doug Aug 16 05 09:24 am Link Register the images asap with the copyright office. He can go F himself after that... His problem is not with you, but the model if he had some contract with her. Aug 16 05 09:30 am Link If she signed a contract with you without telling you she had representation then i doubt it would be considered going behind his back. You did not know he existed. Second HE is the models representation so if she has no contract with him about doing other shoots then she does not have to inform him of other shoots. If she dropped him then she had her reasons. He sounds to be just threatening you with his lawyers, he cant do anything in regards to a model he does not represent. Get something in writing from her just in case stating that you had no knowledge of him before or during the shoot, and she has final say on who she shoots with. In my contract i have a section that states that the model and parent/guardian are to sign and not in any other contracts ect ect maybe that is something you might want to look into? Aug 16 05 09:32 am Link You are the creator of the image... YOU own the copyright! If you gave her reproduction rights, she can use those for her own promo. If HE wants to use the photos commercially, he needs to have YOUR permission and eventually paying for it. Dual copyright ownership is b.s.! Others may have much better info than me, but it's about time for you to relax a little! Aug 16 05 09:35 am Link Your release should cover the copyright issue. As for the model signing behind his back, that's between him and her. As for these supposed lawyers, first of all they don't exist and second you're being scammed. As for you freaking about this, lay off the vicodin for a week. Aug 16 05 09:35 am Link Oh ya keep all the emails he sends you and anything else he sends you. Make sure it has the date, his name ect. Get something in writing from her as to when she dropped him also and have her sign that and date it (just in case you do end up in court with this guy for some odd reason) Aug 16 05 09:35 am Link rdwstudio wrote: I don't believe you have ANYTHING to worry about. He can't prove you went behind his back and even if you did, you still did nothing wrong. He has to attack his CLIENT, which is the model, for any breach of contract. Aug 16 05 09:42 am Link Peter Dattolo wrote: Excellent suggestion. Keep the paper trail... Aug 16 05 09:46 am Link Udo R Photography wrote: Agreed. Keep in mind actually registering the images gives you the right to recover statutory penalties and atty fees if this guy uses the images at some point, which it sounds like he just might do... Aug 16 05 09:47 am Link im so sick of these unprofessional models and their unprofessional 'managers'... why cant people get with the industry... its not like that in the REAL world.... i feel for you. Aug 16 05 09:57 am Link I would just send him an email telling him that any further contact from him will be considered harrassment and that his attorney should contact you. An internet model manager isn't going to have the $200.00 + per hour to see a real attorney and even if he does the attorney would probably laugh him out of his office. It's called bluffing and it's common place on the internet. How many people really have the money to see an attorney over something like this? People with this kind of money are normally not this stupid. Isn't it funny how that works? People that are easily bothered by this stuff need to learn to NOT open upsetting emails. I just send them straight to the trash bin and never open. Don't worry about missing important mail, anything real important has to be sent hard copy and you will have to sign for it. Aug 16 05 10:22 am Link tell him to stfu thanks! Aug 16 05 10:24 am Link What Mary just said... John Aug 16 05 11:19 am Link Whether or not this guy was at any time her 'manager' is irrelevant unless he has a contract signed by both of THEM specifying the paramters of that relationship, and the terms under which she can engage photographers. I doubt their relationship is at that level. She can do as she pleases with any photographers she likes. He is a 'manager' in title only, it would seem. The paper you have in your posession now is all you need. Its a signed document with clear intent for the use of the images, I presume. That paper exists for exactly this reason, to clearly define who can do what with the images. It can only be changed if you agree to change it, no one can force you to. My recommendation would be, on any future correspondence, to indicate that you have a signed contract that outlines the use of the images, and that is the END of the story. Of course, should they wish to negotiate some kind of license fee with you, thats up to them. Aug 16 05 11:31 am Link thanks for all the responses..i really needed some of the advice....i guess i've been lucky over the last 15 years that i've never dealt with this sort of thing before....it took me by surprise....i guess i'll just have to be a little more cautious in the future Aug 16 05 12:21 pm Link rdwstudio wrote: RDW, you're still fearing you did something wrong. You didn't. Though you're in Nova Scotia, so laws are not the same as the US, you actually got a release signed, and pretty much all your ducks in a row. Aug 16 05 02:23 pm Link The "manager" is a blowhard, all talk. Tell him to go play in traffic. Put yer feet up, enjoy your images and have a cigar. Aug 16 05 02:27 pm Link In Florida ALL talent agencies or managers ( even the too many to count wannabe managers, that popped out with the net explosion ) need to be licensed by the state.. I do not know how it works in your town/state/province, but Im sure is similar.. find out .. how are the laws.. and report him  That will teach him a lesson  ) best, Aug 16 05 02:33 pm Link rdwstudio wrote: ignore him.......if he continues to harrass you refer him to the law. Aug 16 05 11:55 pm Link * Visual Mindscapes * wrote: Best advice yet. You have no obligation to him what-so-ever. I would simply tell him that you consider his contacts to be menacing and if he does so again you will immediately call the police. Aug 17 05 01:07 am Link * Visual Mindscapes * wrote: All in favor raise your hand! Aug 17 05 01:12 am Link Zion Imaging wrote: Hand raised. Aug 17 05 02:46 am Link PDXImaging wrote: No need. Your images are copyrighted as soon as you push the shutter button. Aug 17 05 02:53 am Link rdwstudio wrote: That guy couldn't possibly do anything to you. So, stop freaking out. The worse he could do is e-mail a "hmpf!" and curse your mother. Other than that?...nada. Aug 17 05 02:55 am Link Mary wrote: CHURCH!!!! Aug 17 05 06:07 am Link Register the images with the copyright office. With out registration your claims for damages WILL be diminished. Also you can't ask for lawyer fees as damages. Glamour Boulevard wrote: Sep 01 05 02:54 am Link BTW Do you have signed witness when your models signed the model release ? The Agent will not get anything in fact let the agent sue you and you can sue him back for damages. Sep 01 05 03:01 am Link sounds like he has an issue with his model, not you... Sep 01 05 07:24 am Link Cals Imaging Services wrote: This is correct, but having the receipt from the CR Office really helps if it goes into the courtroom. But, this so called 'Manager' doesn't have a leg to stand on. He doesn't have a contract signed that state the copyright change. Sep 01 05 07:35 am Link Mary wrote: YEAH! REALLY! When I get someone who's like pissing me off, I'm like "I could spend $5,000 on my lawyer to go after you, or I could give $2,000 to the scary looking crystal-meth smoking biker dude who I know at the 7-11 and he'll go repair your face over with a broken bottle.... hmmmmm.... what to do?!" It sure is a tough call! Sep 01 05 08:05 am Link Chris Winters wrote: Sometimes, Sep 01 05 11:05 am Link Thanks for posting this, I haven't had such a great laugh in weeks. Last time I worked in Canada, I was not under the impression that I could get a lawsuit together by suing a third party for someone else's breach of contract. If it were that easy, why would anyone ever work.... Sep 01 05 05:34 pm Link i had a similar experience with a fashion designer in miami, i shot a model she brought to me in her bikini TFCD, the model signed a release, i had full copyright, nothing shared, etc. i generously made a CD for the designer. she then wanted me to edit all of the pix for her, cuz she said her bikini's were suppose to be tan thru and the model had tan lines, so i was now suppose to edit all of the images. i told her sure thing, no problem it was going to cost her "X" amount of $$ for digital retouching each image. so she starts acting very unprofessional, and i had security politely escort her from the premises of my condo. she calls me at 1:00am to tell me i cant use any of the images. so i say as little as i have to, if that, basically go F yourself. so she calls me back at 2:00am, to tell me she just spoke to her lawyers and if i use any of her images she will sue me. again i cordially invited her to go F herself, but pointed out to her that i was very impressed that she could reach let alone have a consultation with her team of attorneys at 2:00am. needless to say (ok, this whole story is needless to say LOL) i never heard from her again so i wouldnt worry about the manager and his team of attorneys Sep 01 05 09:57 pm Link Don't even get me started with Model managers. Some of them are boyfriends. Sep 01 05 10:28 pm Link John Allan wrote: Yup ditto here on that. Sep 01 05 10:40 pm Link The guys in here are right. The model came to you not the other way around. She agreed to do the shoot, attended said shoot, and signed the release. As long as she is old enough to contract in her own name you are covered. This "manager" was never in the loop, and you had no idea he existed. You agreed to the shoot and fulfilled your contratual obligations in good faith. He has no legal standing. He'd only be able to contest your release and your rights to the images if he were the model's parent/Gaurdian and she were under 18. 1.) Tell him to stop harassing you, or you'll have him arrested. 2.) Keep all the corrspondence he sends you, and tell him you are keeping it. 3.) use it for evidence if you ever do wind up in court. Sep 02 05 11:19 am Link I suggest printing off a copy of what everybody is saying right here and sending it to the jerk. Frankly, I've found the whole "manager" thing to be little more than an ego trip for some of these guys. If a model wants representation, I suggest a real agency and not some guy with his little digital camera and big ego. I don't think you have anything to worry about. who is he anyway? we can all let him know exactly what we think of his "management" skills and harassing attitude. Sep 02 05 11:57 am Link Glamour Boulevard wrote: Naive and dangerous view, especially if the originals are digital. Theoretically this is true, but as far as actually defending either the copyright or defending yourself from some one else's bogus claim- useless. Will cost you thousands in attorney's fees. Which brings me to my next point- unless this girl is Adriana Lima, no idiot is going to cough ip the 10 grand to sue you over this, and you have a damn good defense if he did (that wouldn't cost you anything but a few hours in a library and maybe a consultation with a local attorney, and then you could counter sue. . .) Sep 03 05 12:12 am Link These men are known as "pimps" in other circles! Sep 03 05 08:27 am Link |
