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Just had a model cancel a shoot...
DeeEight wrote: If you have such a line of publication quality models waiting to work with you, why are you even bothering with any of this? Jul 11 12 10:37 am Link In Balance Photography wrote: I've been asking myself that too, and I think its because I don't want to limit myself to just shooting the same models all the time. Jul 11 12 10:48 am Link In Balance Photography wrote: I think it's quite normal for photographers to fall for models who rationally aren't worth their time. Jul 11 12 10:52 am Link DeeEight wrote: How many publication quality models are in that line? Jul 11 12 10:53 am Link rp_photo wrote: EH? I think he was talking about something totally unrelated to infatuation with any particular model.. Jul 11 12 11:02 am Link "Also I will not work with models who insist on being present after the shoot to supervise my pulling images off my camera and immediately deciding which ones I delete, keep, edit, etc. I do my editing in my own time, usually a day or two later, and other than downloading the pics the same day/night as the shoot, I never actually start to look at them until the next day at the earliest" I personally would take that mention in your profile out- it just spells trouble. Jul 11 12 11:26 am Link Never. I'd just show her the door. I'd be careful about putting anything negative on your profile. If I see anything negative on model's profile I just hit the NEXT button. I go over such details either in a preshoot meeting or in correspondence. Jul 11 12 11:43 am Link rp_photo wrote: KevinMcGowanPhotography wrote: What I meant was "creatively attracted", as in often we feel the need to work with someone who we really don't need to. Jul 11 12 11:48 am Link I deleted the negativity. Also I've noticed an explosion in viewings of the nudes in my port as of this thread being created, but not the other pictures...  Jul 11 12 11:52 am Link DeeEight wrote: Hmmm. What do you think that means? Jul 11 12 11:55 am Link In Balance Photography wrote: That there are a lot of folks who read the forums who just like to look at naked boobies.... Jul 11 12 12:10 pm Link DeeEight wrote: That would be one conclusion to be drawn. Jul 11 12 12:33 pm Link I've been on this site a long time. I've been pretty active in the forums for a long time. Patterns emerge. Someone will vent about a situation, hoping to hear all of their peers agree with their position and back them up. A few from the other side of the aisle (models/photographers) will offer a point of view that may or may not make sense. The OP will often clarify (backpedal) their position and/or offer more information to make them look less extreme. And then tangents are taken and the thread usually devolves into something that has nothing to do with the original topic. It's cute. But something that has been going on a long time is that someone will contact someone else about a shoot because they love their look or their images. It's all hearts and flowers until some demand is brought up (usually too far into negotiations for the comfort of the other) and then the shoot doesn't happen. One party or both are butthurt about it (hence the rant thread) and all of a sudden, this person that they wanted to work with before is a hack, immature, unprofessional, ugly, or whatever. This makes me giggle every single time. To answer the OP's question, no, this has never happened to me. Ever. 9 times out of 10 (similar to Erlinda) I will not show the model the camera screen as we're going along because it wastes time and it's unnecessary. To EVERYONE out there. Make your intentions and conditions known in the first 3 messages when setting up a shoot. Please let me know RIGHT away if you'll be bringing 2 escorts (who will need to be fed lunch), need hair and MUA provided at my expense, VOSS waters chilled to 7 degrees Celcius, and a DVD at the end of the shoot with all RAW (.NEF) images with a usage agreement that you may do whatever you want with them. It will save me lots of time. To the OP. Just stop it. This site is heavily populated with amateur and unprofessional people. Consider it the Facebook of modeling. Maybe even the MySpace of modeling if things continue to decline. Accepting a certain percentage of shenanigans comes with the "free" profile deal. Read more and post less. Learn to read people better and you'll have a far better experience here. And out there. Jul 11 12 12:40 pm Link Sorry to hear about this. The more I shoot the less I am set in my ways or determined to stick to "my rules". I am quite open to discussing the model's concerns in advance of the shoot to see if there is a mutally beneficial arrangement we can come to in less than 3 emails or so - after that I lose patience and move on. That being said, if the demands seem too ridiculous or there seems to be a deep sense of drama or mistrust right of the top that's a conversation that I won't even begin. I have not had models demand to be part of the editing process in the way you describe, but I do tell models for many TF* shoots that if there are photos they are not happy with then they will not be used (same goes for MUA, hair etc.). I have only had once a model ask that photos from the shoot not be used (two of them) as she felt the pose was too sexy (I tend to review a subset of the photos with the team during the shoot as a quick break and a way to gather input). Of course you should not name the model in the forums (outing), but being in the same area as you I would be interested in knowing who this model is if you don't mind sharing with me via PM. I have found there to be many reasonable models in our area so hopefully you're unlikely to run across this again. Jul 11 12 12:47 pm Link Good Egg Productions wrote: I snipped out the fluff that could apply on ANY forum in any industry. But for this particular point, would you not expect better from a person who has PAID for the upgrade from free profile to have behaved better ? Perhaps I'm was being naive in expecting that paying out of pocket for a profile, when joining the site, meant that she was taking it more seriously. Maybe she was just doing so though to come off as more professional than she was actually prepared to be, or that she already had the Diva attitude and felt she needed the Diva profile to go along with it. Jul 11 12 07:08 pm Link This one is simple.... I tell anyone I am shooting they are going to sign a model release in advance of the shoot. No sign release, no shoot.... The rights over the photos are without debate.... they may be the models image on the photos, but their MY photos.... if they can't deal with that, they can take a hike. Get a signed release first, then anything that is discussed thereafter is all meaningless. They are YOUR photos unless or until you waive your rights to them. Mar 26 13 08:03 am Link After each set I show them the photos on the camera and rate the ones we both like on the camera. When it's over I send only the highly rated photos edited. The star rating on the camera is a good tool to use (Canon cameras). You can then have only those downloaded and save time from going through them all in Bridge. I don't take hundreds of photos of anyone so that helps too. I go slow and try my best to be selective from the start. Mar 26 13 08:27 am Link i know of photographers who sit with the model after the shoot and do the selects and the edits. by the time the model leaves it's all done. makes for a long day, though. for our part we post a session gallery (sometimes every photo and sometimes we toss out the really bad ones first) and let the model choose her favorites for retouching. i'm willing to work with special needs models. especially if they are amazing. Mar 26 13 08:31 am Link DeeEight wrote: I think this is what they call a win-win situation. Mar 26 13 08:32 am Link it puts me in a good mood to start my day. plus when you're my age you have to do things to keep the motor running or it will seize up! DeeEight wrote: Mar 26 13 08:35 am Link there are no rules (beyond don't harass the model). do whatever you want. but some strategies may prove to be more effective than others in terms of getting what you want. for my part if a model starts making unusual requests she better be darn good! it's easy to find girls who can stand there looking good. harder to find ones who can give a performance. DeeEight wrote: Mar 26 13 08:38 am Link DeeEight wrote: I think many photographers would have canceled this shoot, based on the model's demands. DeeEight wrote: Me? No, I never had something like this happen. But then again... Mar 26 13 08:44 am Link DeeEight wrote: I understand your position and do not find it unreasonable, but there are other ways of doing things. Mar 26 13 08:45 am Link Marin Photography wrote: I think this is helpful advice. It's OK to use a light meter to set the light ratio. Fire off a couple of shots to check it and fine tune if necessary. Set up a look or pose and capture it with a few variations in a handful of shots. Move on to the next look. Mar 26 13 08:51 am Link DeeEight wrote: I don't think you are out of line. I don't think a photographer should ever let someone else dictate what images are used or edited. No real reason to get rude or anything though. I say just stick to your values and move on to the next shoot. At least you know who not to shoot with in the future. Mar 26 13 08:54 am Link for my part i like having lots to choose from. expressions can be so subtle and they make all the difference. i hate thinking "this image would have been perfect except the expression isn't quite right" on our last 4-hour model shoot we took 1,200 shots. all live into a TV for everyone to see. just how we do it. Grayscale Photo wrote: Mar 26 13 08:54 am Link Very well put. I agree with everything said here as I've personally been in those shoes. My sister is a photographer and I work with her a lot on her shoots as well. So, its easy to attest to both sides of the camera in this instance. In Balance Photography mapped this perfectly. It's okay to have your standards and way of working. We all do. Again, there are numerous possibilities as to why she could have had the reaction she did. An easy solution could have been to come up with an agreed upon number of photos to take before hand - so you could set a day later in the week to review them together, when you aren't doing so directly after downloading them from your camera. Which allows you to follow your own rule. However, leaving her confident, knowing you didn't delete any photos before she was able to see any of them. Or, from first hand experience, getting caught in the moment having fun on shoots, taking hundreds and hundres of photos - if you don't want to say you'll stop at a specific number [ahead of time] you could have at least agreed to tell her you'll inform her [and show her] the total number of photos shot. Once you complete your shoot and agree of a time, in a couple days, you two can sit down to look through the photos together. This also allows you to go through them on your own beforehand, to sort of get an idea of your favorites [even edit a few] and explain to her why you chose the ones you did - from an artistic and technical stand point. More than likely, this is just so she can understand the selection process. You've obviously got more experience in the industry than her. You knew that she didn't have much experience when asking her to shoot. So, you knew from the beginning you'd be working with a new model. Not to say that new models are immature, by no means is that my intention. Much of the time, however - they don't know the ropes or how things work yet. Just what they've been told or how things went on their [first] shoot. You mentioned her [friend] taking photos, etc. it's possible her first shoot was with that same person and that's why she recieved and went through all the photos before and expects it on all of her shoots now. One should never expect the same from one shoot to the next.... But hey - she doesn't know any better and you being the more experienced person in the industry, maybe you could have dug a little more into the background of her modeling history.. ? It could have helped. If she's new, and really trying to gain an understanding of something she's truly passionate about - she's going to be pretty curious about every aspect of her career/hobby as she can be. I'm an analyzer. A details and need to know kind of person myself. If this is new to her and she's always been a take charge sort of person, the one who's in control and has the say in most situations, she'll need adjustment time for sure and TF shoots, well, usually they're a bit more flexible with what each party has a say in. So, maybe try being a little more flexible while still keeping your rules. Otherwise, you just aren't being true to yourself and that isn't right. My suggestions still allow you to keep those rules, however, accommodate to working with a new model since that is what you so chose to do.. Which is fabulous - new models need experienced photographers in their lives. =] I suppose what I'm saying is.. Ask why? First.. Put yourself in the situation and understand what that person is truly needing. It's not your responsibility to provide them with anything but is it within your capacity to do so? Is it something you'll be doing anyway? Is there harm in doing this? Could this actually benefit you as well? Think outside the box. She could have helped you see something you might not have seen otherwise. Before you even get into that situation. [Where you've agreed to shoot, etc..] My suggestion is to dig a little deeper.. Ya know.. Do a little more research, ask questions, especially if it's a new model and your doing TF. But, who am I? Just a girl from WA.. =] Good luck to you in the future endevours - I wish you the very best! Brielle Lyn =] In Balance Photography wrote: DeeEight wrote: This has never happened to me. In Balance Photography wrote: Mar 26 13 09:32 am Link DeeEight wrote: Because you do this: but I give a LOT of edits and all the raw images to my models, so its not as if they're only getting a handful of pics like a lot of photogs give their models. Mar 26 13 09:44 am Link DeeEight wrote: DeeEight wrote: You may have less chance of these things happening if you avoid these kinds of girls Mar 26 13 09:54 am Link Hey, It happens to the best of us. I actually had someone contact me who was a so called Make Up Artist, and wanted to do a shoot with me. I said cool she had a theme in mind well after saying yes she seriously got so unprofessional and crazy she said she was flying into Seattle and only had so many days I told her usually I don't shoot Sundays because I work a normal job graveyards. I told her I'd find a model then she tried to get a model who wasn't even 18 not that we were doing nude or anything but still it's a pain in the ass. Then she calls me all freaking out that the model canceled and she was gonna model, then when she called was like still an hour out and tried blaming me for not getting more studio time at my school where I shoot and trying to call me unprofessional. I was like look lady I told you fro the get go I didn't shoot Sundays this was your concept and you contacted me I worked all night, she then tried to say she did too. Come to find out she was doing makeup for raver girls at some rave. Real professional huh lol, I mean the thing about FB and Model Mayhem and TFP is most people are aspiring, or models want to be paid, but photographers usually won't pay unless they themselves are getting paid. I know that's how I work, so unfortunately you will meet several flaky models or other so called "professionals" when working like this. It's the name of the game. Mar 26 13 10:01 am Link After over a year of TFP shoots on MM, I would say 85% of this "work" is just finding someone you get along with, or relate to. The big secret to happiness is to understand that often the fit won't be right, and just move on quickly (--fighting with random models from the internet, is like getting in fights on the street with random people--it has no value, and is a waste of your emotional energy. Say "Sorry it didn't work out" and move on to the next possible shoot. Mar 26 13 10:02 am Link My friend, you need to differentiate the Signal from the Noise. Your Forum post is just Noise. Focus your life on the signal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z65jlY4e908 Mar 26 13 10:41 am Link DeeEight wrote: Sounds to me like she was Butthurt. Mar 26 13 10:48 am Link Jayc Yu wrote: Er, why would she need to be there ? Mar 26 13 03:05 pm Link  Mar 26 13 03:23 pm Link I think you both need to just move on and forget about it. Clearly she isn't going very far in this industry if she throws a baby fit over not getting her own way. But realistically, what she is asking isn't very uncommon, nor should be an issue. I am curious to what type of shoot it would have been. Would she have been nude? (even if it's just implied) If so, I certainly see why she might want to see the images right after. To be honest, You making this an issue and you refusing to let her look at or delete anything kinda puts a bad light on you. To me it gives off a GWC vibe. Not saying you are.. I'm just pointing it out. Mar 26 13 03:39 pm Link DeeEight wrote: Funny, I can go through over 200 images and cull down to the best 10 - 20 in about 15 minutes with a person. It is pretty fast & easy once you get the hang of using a bridge or lightroom program. Mar 26 13 04:03 pm Link Death of Field wrote: I use ACDSee Pro 6 for scanning images. Mar 26 13 04:06 pm Link I just prune the obvious crap ones and upload the small jpg samples to Google Drive so she can view and pick a few she likes. If a model asked to watch me do the work, like physically watch me offload the images and editing...no. I don't do anything to images the same day anyway. Kinda like me wanting to watch her shave her legs and do her make up....you do your part I will do mine. Mar 26 13 05:16 pm Link nevermind. old thread is old. Mar 26 13 05:21 pm Link |
