DougBPhoto wrote:

Alivia,

you may get a more accurate answer from paid models who have worked with many photographers rather than concluding what is normal from a very narrow sample of photographers.

I don't think a very narrow sample of models is better.

The majority of actual working models are never hired by professional photographers.  Clients hire both or peers and friends trade shoot to maintain their books and work on creative ideas.  If a model needs images they are best served to hire a professional and get exactly what they want.  Otherwise there will always have an element of chance about the collaboration, sometimes it may be exactly what both are looking for and sometimes a compromise.

Alivia Autumn wrote:
OP:

Those of you that hire models, I have a question.

All of my work has been TF.

I'm at the point where I am being offered paid work, however my port is still quite small.

My question is when paying for work from a model, I'd assume that no photos would be traded.  Or does this depend on situation?

Edit:

I am not looking for new photos, if I wanted new photos I would be trading with folks I'm familiar working with.  This question is posed at new people who I have no prior work experience with.  And to reiterate, the question is posed for people approaching me, not the other way around.

The coin toss is I may benefit from the photos, who knows, that was the point in saying my port is small. However after looking at the port of the person in question, I don't know if it's worth my time negotiating prior to seeing the finished product.

From what I'm gathering the photos are the method of payment for trades, and currency is also a method of payment, but rarely you get both.  Thanks.

This isn't a rant, this isn't trying to eat my cake, this is a simple question from a model transitioning from trades to paid assignments.

Be upfront and ask if you can buy the photos that you like?

E H wrote:
This isn't a rant, this isn't trying to eat my cake, this is a simple question from a model transitioning from trades to paid assignments.


This is the reason why you may want to pay for better portfolio shots and continuing to do so,,, getting better and better shots...Better the shots the more money and jobs you will get... joan Smalls/ Karlie Kloss or Abbey Lee Kershaw did not get to where they are on : a TF or fill in with what I get paid in images or an unprinted portfolio.
Just trying to help you get more and better jobs.
All the best

I get it and that makes absolute sense, but personally I'm not trying to get more paid shoots or put myself out there career wise. I do it cause it's fun, yet I work full time and am a mother so mytime is limited. The question is for people approaching me... Which is happening rather frequently.

E H wrote:
This isn't a rant, this isn't trying to eat my cake, this is a simple question from a model transitioning from trades to paid assignments.


This is the reason why you may want to pay for better portfolio shots and continuing to do so,,, getting better and better shots...Better the shots the more money and jobs you will get... joan Smalls/ Karlie Kloss or Abbey Lee Kershaw did not get to where they are on : a TF or fill in with what I get paid in images or an unprinted portfolio.
Just trying to help you get more and better jobs.
All the best

I also appreciate the reply. Thank you.

Alivia Autumn wrote:

I also appreciate the reply. Thank you.

No problem, trying to help
Mom,kids, full-time job or just doing it for fun,,, all the same thing,,, better portfolio = more you'll do and make...

AJScalzitti wrote:
I don't think a very narrow sample of models is better.

The majority of actual working models are never hired by professional photographers.  Clients hire both or peers and friends trade shoot to maintain their books and work on creative ideas.  If a model needs images they are best served to hire a professional and get exactly what they want.  Otherwise there will always have an element of chance about the collaboration, sometimes it may be exactly what both are looking for and sometimes a compromise.

The majority of actual working models, believe it or not, are probably smart enough to understand what they do and do not receive from photographers, and are probably capable of articulating it to another model.   I realize this may be unthinkable, but I've been told on good authority that many models DO, in fact, have brains, and know how to use them.

You might also want to expand a bit on exactly who you define as "actual working models", because it sounds kinda like you're discounting a great many models who are working and getting paid... even if, gasp, there isn't a business/client paying.

In other words, if there isn't a business/client paying both the model and photographer, those people are not "actual" working models or actual "professional photographers".

I guess everyone else on both sides of the camera is just playing pretend.

Fantastic job of pontification, but I don't think you really helped shed nearly as much light on the subject for the OP as you think you did.

Alivia Autumn wrote:
The problem with negotiating, is possibly not liking the images.  I've done a couple TF shoots where I didn't like anything.  Sounds like it's standard to not receive photos for paid shoots that's all I'm asking.

Thanks all

I think the answer here is obvious.  If you want to call the tune, maybe hiring a photographer to do your idea explicitly is what you might consider.  Asking me to pay you to do only your idea - not going to happen.

Alivia Autumn wrote:
OP:

My question is when paying for work from a model, I'd assume that no photos would be traded.  Or does this depend on situation?

I don't think there is a rule (although some like to insist there is). Sure, there's a lot more incentive for a photographer to hand over photos for a TF shoot - that's their side of the commitment (although even there, you'll find a wide variety of what is offered).

I have only done a few paid shoots so I speak from limited experience, but I've always offered them (and yes, my hope is to keep the cost down). I've found the more experienced models tend to include a few shots (sometimes their choice perhaps) as part of the deal.

Other than as a negotiating ploy I think it's short-sighted of the photographer not to give some edited shots. After all,  if the model was worth hiring, isn't it worth something to have some of your work in her portfolio? I also figure, once you've done the work of editing shots, it really costs you nothing to send a few to the model (whether it was agreed or not).

Isn't goodwill still worth something - never mind the free advertising if the model uses them in their portfolio (and I do always ask that I be credited if she does).

Again it all comes down to communication and coming to an amicable agreement preferably before all the work has been done.

Alivia Autumn wrote:
I guess communication is key.

Absolutely! :-)

imcFOTO wrote:

I don't think there is a rule (although some like to insist there is). Sur, there's a lot more incentive for a photographer to hand over photos for a TF shoot - that's their side of the commitment (although even there, you'll find a wide variety it what is offered).

I have only done a few paid shoots so I speak from limited experience, but I've always offered them (and yes, my hope is to keep the cost down). I've found the more experienced models tend to include a few shots (sometimes their choice perhaps) as part of the deal.

Other than as a negotiating ploy I think it's short-sighted of the photographer not to give some edited shots. After all,  if the model was worth hiring, isn't it worth something to have some of your work in her portfolio? I also figure, once you've done the work of editing shots, it really costs you nothing to send a few to the model (whether it was agreed or not).

Isn't goodwill still worth something - never mind the free advertising if the model uses them in their portfolio (and I do always ask that I be credited if she does).

Again it all comes down to communication and coming to an amicable agreement preferably before all the work has been done.

Wish all photographers had your mindset, especially the ones here.  Thankfully I've never had a problem with photographers acting uppity in my city, but damn these threads can be brutal!

Alivia Autumn wrote:
The problem with negotiating, is possibly not liking the images.  I've done a couple TF shoots where I didn't like anything.  Sounds like it's standard to not receive photos for paid shoots that's all I'm asking.

Thanks all

when you start doing paid shoots, expect that there are going to be pictures of you on the internet that you might hate and that you would never pick yourself.