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OK, which is the Full-Sized Sensor?
A=5 B=14 19 total votes. One more, guys!!! Nov 13 12 09:49 am Link my therapist says A. ok, let's have it! Nov 13 12 09:50 am Link B is full frame Nov 13 12 09:51 am Link Ya'll voted: A=5 B=15 ...but, A is the Full Frame. Nov 13 12 09:51 am Link Robert Jewett wrote: Can't wait for all the shit talking that'll come afterwards, "unfair testing method" blardy blah... Nov 13 12 10:04 am Link Robert Jewett wrote: EXCELLENT!!! Nov 13 12 10:05 am Link I wonder how many people guessed B because they thought it appeared to be the higher quality image (sharpness, dynamic range, etc). I don't recall a thread where anyone was saying they could always tell images from Crop and Full Frame part, however I DO remember that even myself was saying that the suggestion that the two are identical is untrue. Secondly, when I frame my images, I do so based on what I see in the frame and I select a lens accordingly, so if I was to shoot this same thing, I would NOT have been shooting the full frame body as the same focal length and then wasting my time cropping the resulting image. Nov 13 12 10:10 am Link Thanks for the exercise, interesting results. Nov 13 12 10:15 am Link Like everyone said, hardly scientific. And, of course, my attempts to get them to look similar just made it worse...next time, I know what to improve. Here are unprocessed RAW files, just converted to jpeg and resized. I placed the 7D over the 5D MIII file for perspective on what the sensor sizes look like. Nov 13 12 10:22 am Link DougBPhoto wrote: My reasoning was exactly the opposite. My observations have been that all other things being equal, smaller sensors/lower resolutions tend to be "sharper" out of the camera at default settings. This is certainly evident when comparing my old D70 to my D300 (admittedly one is CCD the other CMOS which is another variable). Nov 13 12 10:41 am Link Lovely Day Media wrote: You might be my only friend left. Nov 13 12 10:47 am Link DougBPhoto wrote: But surely you're seen people claim full frame images are a magnitude better and that they can instantly see the difference? this is merely calling bullshit on their claims. Nov 13 12 11:20 am Link Robert Jewett wrote: I wonder what the results will be like if we tested a higher resolution crop sensor vs lower fullframe? Like a D5200 vs a D4 Nov 13 12 11:24 am Link Robert Jewett wrote: B For full frame, but the shots aren't framed right the camera turned between shots, so it's a little misleading. Nov 13 12 11:32 am Link A=5DIII But, the 7D is still sexy as hell, I'm in love with mine! Nov 13 12 11:39 am Link Robert Jewett wrote: Why would anyone throw rotten tomatoes? If it's because they've picked the wrong picture, the problem is theirs. If it's because I'm your only friend and I'm *so* terrible, they've got me all wrong. Nov 13 12 11:42 am Link Robert Jewett wrote: No, I don't really see the point. Are you saying that a lot of photographers said that if you take the same picture with a crop frame and a full frame and then crop and tonally adjust the ff picture to look like the crop frame sensor that they can still tell the difference? Nov 13 12 11:42 am Link Yingwah Productions wrote: I wonder what the results would be if you tested the camera's the way they were meant to be tested lol. A crop frame as a crop frame and a full frame as a full frame! Now who'd a thunk? Nov 13 12 11:46 am Link framing, dof all irrelevant. the smoothness of the gradation and enlarged circle of confusion changes the quality of the image because of the smaller original image needing to be enlarged to match the larger sensor. the difference is easy to spot - if you know what you are looking at. you can see it in the OP 100% size, but for the sight challenged, here's the 400% view. Nov 13 12 11:59 am Link MC Photo wrote: Ah, yeah. Saw that too. That would be the uber expensive Really Right Stuff brackets. One is out of square. Trying to find a machinist's square in Africa is impossible. Nov 13 12 01:12 pm Link I'm not hiring you for my next scientific research project. By altering the image(s) in the way you did you've tainted the experiment and it's no longer a valid comparison. You've changed the image to make them look similar to simply prove a point. By making subjective changes either of the images it's no longer a realistic or objective comparison. Nov 13 12 01:29 pm Link Ha! I knew this thread would end up being funny one way or another. I shoot with both crop and FF equally. Both are really good. Sometimes it seems like people take issue when FF is demystified. I get that if you're zooming way in, maybe YOU can tell the difference, but most people can't. At the end of the day, most non-photographer people don't care. Just make good images. I couldn't tell which was which, regardless of whether the test was screwed up. I mix images of the same shoot together and I can never tell which is the 5D2 or the 7D. They both look about the same. Nov 13 12 01:41 pm Link Leonard Gee Photography wrote: Maybe it's my 40 something eyes, but there's a hardly a massive difference!, just shows how freakin' awesome the 7D is and how, er well average the 5DIII is. Nov 13 12 01:45 pm Link R_Marquez wrote: I must have really missed the boat because I never considered a quality difference between a FF and a Crop sensor. Size difference/output, yes. Clarity/brightness of the viewfinder, yes. But I never thought of making the blanket statement that "a FF sensor takes better images than a crop." Nov 13 12 01:47 pm Link B is FF. Nov 13 12 01:50 pm Link So, we're trying to decide if it matters whether it's cropped at the sensor or at the output? Nov 13 12 01:55 pm Link Leonard Gee Photography wrote: This is interesting as I was looking at exactly the same thing, to determine that B was the FF. Now what's also interesting is that I've never shot with a FF digital. Nov 13 12 01:59 pm Link John Allan wrote: As I said, you have to know what you are looking at. Most people don't have the visual language to understand the difference in the gradations. Also there are better examples with very fine detail, which this example did not contain. Nov 13 12 02:37 pm Link So it's the same lens, at the same focal length at the same settings. Why would there be any difference in a piddling little web shot. Print them to at least A3 then have another look. Nov 13 12 11:51 pm Link When you cropped the picture from the FF, then you weren't presenting a FF image. Cropped, they're both crop sensors. Your experiment is a total fail as far as telling which is FF and which is not. The only difference between sensor sizes will be that to create a certain framing from a given distance with various sensor sizes, you need to adjust focal length. Then, you'll see the difference. Same focal length on same portion of a sensor, there's no difference. You defeated the only meaningful difference. Nov 14 12 12:27 am Link Michael McGowan wrote: (shhhhh. no-one tell him that's the point, he likes thinking he's a rebel.) Nov 14 12 12:52 am Link That was fun. Thank you for your time and effort. 7D and 5DII owner who hasn't thought once about upgrading to the 5DIII. Okay, ... maybe once. Or twice..... .... awww, but it's so nice and new and shiny! Nov 14 12 01:04 am Link Drew Smith Photography wrote: I had no choice as the shutter is going in my 5DII. I hesitated a lot as the Nikon D800 is way more bang for the buck. Nov 14 12 01:19 am Link Did you end up getting the Mark III? And if so, what do you think? I think it's the camera the Mark II should have been...and should cost $600 less. Shrug. Nov 14 12 02:03 am Link Robert Jewett wrote: Who me? Yes, and yes it's way over priced. Canon knows that as droves are going Nikon. If you do your research though Canon have a lot of lenses for what we do with models that are better and often less expensive. Nov 14 12 02:18 am Link Yeah, I *almost* switched to Nikon, but I had just bought all new lenses for shooting overseas...and I couldn't afford the dump. Also, with the grip, the prices are about the same. I am not sure what Canon is thinking these days, but I wish they'd just buy Sony sensors already and get it over with. Nov 14 12 02:56 am Link FF sensor doesn't change the DOF. It's the LENS that determines the DOF. If anything, the crop sensor would appear to have less DOF because they typically have more pixel density. (except for the d800 which has more pixel density than the d300) More pixel density equates to zooming in on the image which allows you to see the blurry parts more blurry. The 1.6 crop effectively does just that, a bit. Nov 14 12 07:14 am Link Extrosy wrote: That's not the whole (wait for it....) picture. The lens is only part of the equation. The distance to subject is no less important. And in practical use, most of us change our focal length, subject distance or both to get the desired composition in the viewfinder. On a smaller sensor, you're going to have to get further away or use a shorter focal length to create the same visual composition. Either way, you'll have a different DOF. And so, viola! Sensor size indirectly affects DOF. Nov 14 12 10:12 am Link Image Magik wrote: you can see direct comparisons of almost every camera they reviewed for the last 4-5 years over at dpreview.com, both raw and jpeg, at every ISO Nov 14 12 11:17 am Link If you use the same lens but use different 'crop' and 'full frame' bodies then you have 2 distinct areas of variables that will impact on the result. On a crop the emphasis will be on the usually better central area of the lens. With the bodies being different the sensors will be different as will the processing. If you use a single lens on a 'full frame' body that also has a 'crop' mode then the camera based variables will be minimised but the lens variable will still be present. Conclusion - conducting a valid test with 'off the shelf' equipment is not possible. Nov 14 12 11:46 am Link |