Looknsee Photography wrote:
Talk to you doctor, not an EMT (who shouldn't be giving you medical advice in the first place).

AdelaideJohn1967 wrote:
Not an EMT but ENT Ear Nose & Throat specialist.........

Damn my aging eyes.

Lightcraft Studio wrote:

I had dinner with another friend of mine last weekend, and we were talking about this. He said he did the sleep study and was told that he had severe apnea. I asked if he uses the machine now... he said he doesn't. I asked why, and he said that he's used to being tired all the time and just manages to adjust. He's already retired, so I guess at this point in his life he doesn't care too much.

You might want to tell him that the average life expectancy of someone diagnosed with sleep apnea is 8 years. I assume it's longer if they use CPAP. My buddy has been using one for well over 10 years and he's only in his 40's.

Instinct Images wrote:

You might want to tell him that the average life expectancy of someone diagnosed with sleep apnea is 8 years. I assume it's longer if they use CPAP. My buddy has been using one for well over 10 years and he's only in his 40's.

I guess my 70 year old friend has been beating the odds then.

Anyway, anyone considering the use of such a device might want to hurry up, since the new 10% medical device tax kicks in next month.

Isis22 wrote:
I tend to think like you though;I don't want a bandaid, I want to FIX the problem. I would have the surgery if I did everything else that I could(like losing weight if necessary).

cpap is technically not a band aid, seeing as if properly fitted and implemented, it completely alleviates the symptoms of osa.

some people don't want invasive surgery, and some surgeries don't completely fix the problem anyway.

dr. dement and all the work that's gone on for the last few decades at the stanford sleep center has really brought to light just how serious a problem osa (and other sleep disorders) are. their work is indispensable.

to the op: cpap is as much a scam as dialysis is.

GK photo wrote:
to the op: cpap is as much a scam as dialysis is.

Oh alright it was a bad choice of words.

But things I can't explain The test showed despite the presences of apnea I had a very high oxygen intake for the night. This to the testers is a bit of a puzzle.

My other question is this. If snoring is so bad why have people been doing that for almost as long as the human race has been around? When was it first discovered that snoring was bad?

AdelaideJohn1967 wrote:
When was it first discovered that snoring was bad?

Wha?  I guess you've never slept with someone who snores? 
One of the gunslingers of the old west shot a man for snoring.  It's almost intolerable.

AdelaideJohn1967 wrote:
Oh alright it was a bad choice of words.

bingo

AdelaideJohn1967 wrote:
But things I can't explain The test showed despite the presences of apnea I had a very high oxygen intake for the night. This to the testers is a bit of a puzzle.

were the testers MDs? mine weren't. talk to the doctor.

AdelaideJohn1967 wrote:
My other question is this. If snoring is so bad why have people been doing that for almost as long as the human race has been around? When was it first discovered that snoring was bad?

snoring and osa are two different animals. and the fact is, people have suffered from (and died from) osa for as long as the tissue in the back of humans mouths has had the capability to obstruct airflow.

i've known for many years (since adolescence) something was wrong with the way i sleep. it just never made that much of a difference until i was in my 40's and couldn't get through an afternoon commute without literally zonking out behind the wheel. i was getting pretty good at driving by braille for longer lengths than i should have. i was a hazard, and considered myself as dangerous as a drunk behind the wheel.

once i got diagnosed (officially) with osa and got my cpap, that all ended--literally--overnight.

cpap is not a scam. if you have doubts, get a second opinion. if you have osa, get used to the machine. your qol will be much better.

GK photo wrote:

AdelaideJohn1967 wrote:
Oh alright it was a bad choice of words.

bingo

AdelaideJohn1967 wrote:
But things I can't explain The test showed despite the presences of apnea I had a very high oxygen intake for the night. This to the testers is a bit of a puzzle.

were the testers MDs? mine weren't. talk to the doctor.

snoring and osa are two different animals. and the fact is, people have suffered from (and died from) osa for as long as the tissue in the back of humans mouths has had the capability to obstruct airflow.

i've known for many years (since adolescence) something was wrong with the way i sleep. it just never made that much of a difference until i was in my 40's and couldn't get through an afternoon commute without literally zonking out behind the wheel. i was getting pretty good at driving by braille for longer lengths than i should have. i was a hazard, and considered myself as dangerous as a drunk behind the wheel.

once i got diagnosed (officially) with osa and got my cpap, that all ended--literally--overnight.

cpap is not a scam. if you have doubts, get a second opinion. if you have osa, get used to the machine. your qol will be much better.

Do you ever find yourself taking the machine off in your sleep?

Lightcraft Studio wrote:
I understand that... however, I know one person who uses a CPAP machine to ward off cluster headaches (which is the reason I'm interested). He stumbled on that as a possible solution pretty much by accident... he never thought he had any sort of sleep problems, but took the test and was told that he did in fact have sleep apnea. He believes that using the machine helps ward off the cluster headaches, and also makes him feel more rested.

If you are looking to ward off cluster headaches (which I have) CPAP machines are effective due to oxygen therapy.  However, I would tell you and your friend both that oxygen therapy is better done through straight oxygen at a high volume for a short burst.  O2 overnight does not work nearly as well.

To the OP there could be many things involved here regarding your CPAP machine.  Many have already pointed out that snoring and sleep apnea may not be related. What a lot of people don't realize is that there are really two types of sleep apnea.  In the first type it is caused by an obstruction of the airway.  In the second type your brain forgets to start breathing again.  The second type is what I am believed to have.  The CPAP works on both types for different reasons and should really be looked into if you have either sleep apnea.

For the snoring...if that's really all it is (meaning not a side effect of sleep apnea).....you may have to try a bunch of things.  But keep in mind the success rate for surgery is not in your favor.  Your best bet would be to try all the home remedies and then try surgery.

But cluster headaches and sleep apnea overall are no laughing matter and at that point a CPAP becomes a very valid treatment.

Peach Jones wrote:
Sleep apnea is serious and can be fatal. See here about Reggie White:

On the morning of December 26, 2004, White was rushed from his home in Cornelius, North Carolina, to a nearby hospital in Huntersville, North Carolina, where he was pronounced dead. White had suffered a fatal cardiac arrhythmia. The most likely cause of this, according to the Mecklenburg County Medical Examiner's Office, was the cardiac and pulmonary sarcoidosis with which he had lived for years.[8] It was also stated that sleep apnea, which White was known to suffer from[9] may have contributed to his death.[10] His grave site is situated at Glenwood Memorial Park, Mooresville, North Carolina.

Coincidentally I was hospitalized on that day for Cardiac Arrhythmia. Hospitalized for almost 2 weeks, then hospitalized again for another week before they got the arrhythmia under control. There I was diagnosed with sleep apnea. I totally believed S.A. was BS. I had actually been fighting with my wife for months because she kept waking me up because I was not breathing. ( testing showed I was not breathing for nearly a full 60+ seconds at times). One of the nurses brought me the sports section of the paper to read about his death.
Been on the BiPAP ever since.

Accidental  Plateau wrote:

Do you ever find yourself taking the machine off in your sleep?

no, i never have. i do know people who have though, and whom have never gotten used to the machines. when i got mine, i was instructed to make sure it worked and that it was comfortable. they would have made as many adjustments as necessary to try to make it manageable.

i think some people just don't want the machine. i get it, but i wasn't one of them. i value the benefits of a good night's sleep, and this was an instant aid to that end.

Dale at Killer Image wrote:
So YES... the sleep study / CPAP thing helps some people but is also an insurance scam.

No.  You were misdiagnosed.  Not the CPAPs problem or responsibility.

Carlos Occidental wrote:

No.  You were misdiagnosed.  Not the CPAPs problem or responsibility.

Well, more accurately "misdiagnosed by several people who stood to profit directly from CPAP sales, and nearly killed me in the process".

GK photo wrote:
were the testers MDs? mine weren't. talk to the doctor.

The test is overseen by a Doctor who monitors the tests through the night and a staff of people who help with that, and with attaching / removing the sensors during the test. If you have to go to the toilet you have to unplug and then take the whole box with sensors with you to the toilet then get back into bed as they reconnect you.. I went twice to the toilet during the night.

It's run by a sleep study unit out of Adelaide University. All the tests are monitored by a Ear Nose Throat specialist.

Dale at Killer Image wrote:
So YES... the sleep study / CPAP thing helps some people but is also an insurance scam.

Same here.........98% was the figure of people diagnosed with sleep apnea that do the same test. That's the figure I was given when I asked the doctor that was doing the actual study. I figure it's much the same. How can you have a test that almost no one can pass? Everyone snores at some point during the night.

Yes there are cases that need more looking into and I want to explore all my options before committing to something I may not even use all the time.

Dale at Killer Image wrote:
WOW --- I searched Google a while back for "CPAP Scam", and found nothing...now I accidentally see this thread!

Short version: The "sleep study" is a scam.  The CPAP is fine for some people, possibly lethal for others.

Here is what happened to me:

Started to snore more over time, wife demanded I visit a doctor.  Went to an ENT, who was rude to me for no apparent reason, and require I do an overnight "sleep study" at a local hospital. 

I showed up for my appointment, which was a large area with about 10 beds for dedicated entirely to these "sleep studies".  I had to sign about 30 forms, which I obviously didn't read because I was scared and had no options. While I was being hooked up to the monitors, I asked what percentage of people here end up diagnosed with "sleep apnea".  She said 100%.  I started to think about why so many people are taking a test that no one has ever "passed".

Guess what, I was diagnosed with sleep apnea, and issued a $5,000 CPAP (insurance paid for this and the $5,000 sleep study).  I tried to use it, and it was AWFUL.  Could not breathe, could not sleep.  Bitchy wife kept forcing the issue. I was tired all of the time from poor sleep due to the CPAP. 

One night I felt that I was dying of strangulation. In a semi-dream, I'm literally fighting to move, and fight to get the CPAP off my face.  I finally did, and gasped for air for minutes.  I started to realize it was no dream, I was really suffocating.  I refused to ever use it again, and went to a new doctor.

New doctor took one look and said my problem was obvious, my sinuses had fused together (a genetic condition made worse by aspirin), and I was 100% blocked and needed surgery right away to cut away tissue to avoid potentially fatal sinus infections.  Had the surgery and my life was MUCH better.  Also divorced the bitch at the same time.

The doctor confirmed I WAS suffocating with the CPAP, I could have died, and that both the 1st doctor and the sleep study doctors should have immediately seen my very obvious problem and made the correct diagonisis.

OH...and I went back and looked at my copies of those 30 pages I signed at the sleep study -- they were to disclose that my referring doctor is PART OWNER of the sleep study division and profits from the study and CPAP sales, and I have agreed not to sue him of anything goes wrong!!


So YES... the sleep study / CPAP thing helps some people but is also an insurance scam.

there are misdiagnosed cases in all fields, and yours sounds like it may be one. what i'd like to know is how you could have been "strangled" by a cpap/bipap machine? i mean, by default, even someone who suffers no symptoms of osa would not be strangled by a constant positive airflow while they attempt to sleep.

and yes, i'm sure that some places are forced to get results that are inline with sales projections too.

i can only speak on a personal level, and cpap has made a HUGE difference in my quality of life. and like i said earlier, i have known since i was 15 that i had really bad sleep/snoring/loss of air intake problems. weight, and other issues played no part in them. it was mostly tissue that was the determining factor.

your ent--at the initial visit--should have determined that your problem was a sinus issue, not an airflow problem.

Dale at Killer Image wrote:
...

So YES... the sleep study / CPAP thing helps some people but is also an insurance scam.

Sounds like socialized medical care might not be so bad.

GK photo wrote:
what i'd like to know is how you could have been "strangled" by a cpap/bipap machine? i mean, by default, even someone who suffers no symptoms of osa would not be strangled by a constant positive airflow while they attempt to sleep.

Good question - I should explain.

I began taking small amount of daily aspirin near 40, as everyone should. This triggered a genetic defect that caused all of my sinus tissue to resume growing... until it fused and closed all openings.  I could only take in air through my mouth.  The dangerous part is that it makes all 4 of your sinus cavities into fluid tanks, which will eventually become infected. Since they wrap around behind the eyes and connect to the brain, that's often fatal.

The CPAP forces air to your nose and mouth, and if your mouth opens the flap in the back of your throat will close so that that the air is pulled through your nose. 

Since my nasal cavity was blocked, this had the effect of putting a clothespin on my nose AND duct tape over my mouth.  I was literally suffocating.

Guss W wrote:

Sounds like socialized medical care might not be so bad.

I know a lot of people in countries with socialized medicine, and 100% of them think it's a better way to go and feel sorry for Americans.  Perhaps we'll get out of the dark ages of greed one day.

Dale at Killer Image wrote:

Good question - I should explain.

I began taking small amount of daily aspirin near 40, as everyone should. This triggered a genetic defect that caused all of my sinus tissue to resume growing... until it fused and closed all openings.  I could only take in air through my mouth.  The dangerous part is that it makes all 4 of your sinus cavities into fluid tanks, which will eventually become infected. Since they wrap around behind the eyes and connect to the brain, that's often fatal.

The CPAP forces air to your nose and mouth, and if your mouth opens the flap in the back of your throat will close so that that the air is pulled through your nose. 

Since my nasal cavity was blocked, this had the effect of putting a clothespin on my nose AND duct tape over my mouth.  I was literally suffocating.

you should have had a full face mask. i use one when i get a cold.

GK photo wrote:

you should have had a full face mask. i use one when i get a cold.

No, I had nasal surgery to literally drill out the sinuses.  Lasers and other hi-tech methods can't be used on sinus tissue. Fixed the problem.

Dale at Killer Image wrote:

No, I had nasal surgery to literally drill out the sinuses.  Lasers and other hi-tech methods can't be used on sinus tissue. Fixed the problem.

congrats.

Fergy wrote:
My mom stopped breathing almost 400 times in one night.  She has a CPAP and sleeps so much better with it.  They found sleep apnea may be the cause of her migraines. 

My husband snores really bad, the ENT mentioned he had the issue with his palate also.  But that the surgery would be last resort.  It only has a 50% success rate, and is extremely painful.  Most people after they have the surgery still have to use the CPAP.

Some insurances won't cover it until you try the other (cheaper) ways to control your sleep apnea.

As above, the surgery is VERY painful and not just for a few hours and yes it is not always successful. CPAP/BiPAP is  very successful in many cases because the pressure overcomes soft tissue in the back of the throat that causes an obstruction and the apnea. Make sure that you try several different types of masks for your personal comfort.

Dale at Killer Image wrote:

No, I had nasal surgery to literally drill out the sinuses.  Lasers and other hi-tech methods can't be used on sinus tissue. Fixed the problem.

I had all 4 sinus passages done in 1994.... I had what was called a turbinectomy.
But for me they did the passages above the nose and eyes and the sinus passages just below the eyes. I think there are 4 passages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbinectomy

Just reading some of the wiki stuff I wonder if that contributed to my current situation... Because they say surgery should be a last resort, but at the time my nose wasn't draining excess fluids and stuff properly.

Hmmmmm