Anna Adrielle wrote:

I'd want to be with someone who thought of me as the best possible option to date. then let's say he wants to leave for a trade up... then either:
*he lied to me when I got to know him and during the relationship, which would really hurt...
*he was honest to me about it from the start "hey baby, you're great and everything, but when something betters comes along I'm out of here", and then I wouldn't get involved with him to begin with.

Perfectly reasonable, especially given your belief in marriage.

This kind of agreement to be together for as long as you're the best options for one another wouldn't work so well with a lifelong commitment that you intend on following through with no matter what (barring abuse).

Andialu wrote:

Pshhh. Damianne knows everything. Just ask her.

I don't think I know everything. However I am having a discussion with people intelligent enough to disagree with me with more than snide remarks.

-Nicole- wrote:
I guess I don't understand why anyone would want to remain with someone who they weren't happy with. For whatever reason.

Me neither.
Apparently, though, there are many that would understand it.
It's fascinating.

Damianne wrote:

Perfectly reasonable, especially given your belief in marriage.

This kind of agreement to be together for as long as you're the best options for one another wouldn't work so well with a lifelong commitment that you intend on following through with no matter what (barring abuse).

well, like I said earlier, I think breaking up with someone without much pain involved onnly works when you're on the same page about this. I got out of a 3 year relationship with someone I cared for, and still do, but it just wasn't working. I tried for a year and a half to turn things around, he was a good guy, he treated me right and I wasn't really unhappy, but it just wasn't working.
But I'm glad I tried anyway, we parted as friends.
I've also been blindsighted in relationships when the other one left and that just really hurts me, when people are not who they say they are.

if you're both "I'm holding on" kind of people, that can work. If you're both "when I'm not happy with you anymore, I'm gone" kind of people, that also works, but when you're a mixture it can get painful (I think)

and yes, in cases of abuse, it can also be a very bad idea (not to mention dangerous)... But I just trust that I will know to get out at that point. I have a lot of "fighting spirit" when it comes to my relationships, but I do have a line that I won't cross, for anyone. Abuse is certainly behind that line, it's not like I believe in staying with someone *no matter what*

Damianne wrote:
Well it is a trade up, in this particular scenario.

What's wrong with a trade up?
Would you want to be with someone that felt like they could trade you up, or would you want to be with someone that felt like you were the best available?

That's just it. I would not want someone who approached this on a trade-up standard. AT ALL. That's why I ask about what criteria could possibly be used to approach a partner like one approaches a product.

Damianne wrote:
And if you were traded up, doesn't that seem like the person you care about getting to be with someone that makes them happier (In the deep, holistic, life sense) than you ever could, and while that sucks, isn't it kind of a good thing for them?

Well, I'll tell ya. My wife and I thought that when we were in Year 7. We both took a six-month break and looked for that "Better Other". I guess I don't need to tell you how that went down. We didn't need someone else. We needed a break from each other. Our happiness issues were with ourselves, not with each other. And if we'd just casually dumped each other, or one of us just got traded-up, rebuilding that trust would have been FAR harder, if not potentially impossible.

Damianne wrote:
Why would it need to be for superficial reasons?
You're letting connotation run amuck with these ideas again, and since this part of the topic was brought up by someone speaking from personal opinion about her marriage, it's kind of invalid.

What? No, no, no... I'm addressing the OP as stated. The OP as stated inquires about the public perception of someone's moral fiber when it comes to leaving someone, and my points address that aspect directly and succinctly.

-Nicole- wrote:
I guess I don't understand why anyone would want to remain with someone who they weren't happy with. For whatever reason.

I don't think anyone is talking about talking staying with someone they aren't happy with. I'm addressing the utterly vapid reasons I'm hearing from some people. But hey, in the end it's their life and their decisions. Doesn't mean I can't have an opinion about it.

Damianne wrote:

I don't think I know everything. However I am having a discussion with people intelligent enough to disagree with me with more than snide remarks.

Fair enough. You just act like it, IMO.

Damianne wrote:
I don't think I know everything. However I am having a discussion with people intelligent enough to disagree with me with more than snide remarks.

Andialu wrote:
Fair enough. You just act like it, IMO.

Jim, we goof around and snark and stuff, but do me a kindness on this thread. Damianne is one of a handful of the most fiercely intelligent people on these forums. She stands out in that regard. Please don't condescend to her. I know you don't mean to, but please.

Andialu wrote:

I don't think anyone is talking about talking staying with someone they aren't happy with. I'm addressing the utterly vapid reasons I'm hearing from some people. But hey, in the end it's their life and their decisions. Doesn't mean I can't have an opinion about it.

I basically skimmed the thread so I'm not sure what reasons were listed but I'm sure it could be anything under the sun.

Compass Rose Studios wrote:
I thought this thread was going to be about amoral flailing. 

I do that sometimes.

WARRBL GARRBL *flails*

Shit.
It's like an epidemic.

Andialu wrote:

I don't think anyone is talking about talking staying with someone they aren't happy with. I'm addressing the utterly vapid reasons I'm hearing from some people. But hey, in the end it's their life and their decisions. Doesn't mean I can't have an opinion about it.

It's actually a simple concept.
If you want to leave someone because of their hair, or something stupid, then you don't really care about them and it's still a valid reason, due to the type of relationship caring about someone's hair that much would indicate.

There are no invalid reasons for leaving someone, because the ONLY reason you need is wanting to.

If you're not grounded enough to realize that momentary disgruntledness is typically balanced out by lots of being happy with someone, that momentary disgruntledness is still a valid reason, because you shouldn't be in a longterm relationship until you figure out how to really understand what you want.


Therefore, ergo ipso facto columbo oreo, any reason someone gives to leave a relationship is perfectly valid.

kickfight wrote:
Jim, we goof around and snark and stuff, but do me a kindness on this thread. Damianne is one of a handful of the most fiercely intelligent people on these forums. She stands out in that regard. Please don't condescend to her. I know you don't mean to, but please.

I can do that.

ETA:
But for the record I think they are saying the same thing I am, just in a much more eloquent way.

Andialu wrote:
I can do that.

ETA:
But for the record I think they are saying the same thing I am, just in a much more eloquent way.

You're a "capital M" Man, Jim. That was exemplary. Good on ya, and my deepest thanks.

Damianne wrote:

Would you want to be with someone that thought they could find a better mate than you?

If we were dating?  That's part of the dating game.  If we were married?  That would be a problem and I would not have married her.

modeled wrote:

If we were dating?  That's part of the dating game.  If we were married?  That would be a problem and I would not have married her.

Part of the dating game?
Maybe I just take dating more seriously, since I don't take marriage seriously.

Damianne wrote:
Part of the dating game?
Maybe I just take dating more seriously, since I don't take marriage seriously.

I found it to be a game, especially in college.  It's where I learned my likes and dislikes, personalities I romantically clashed with and personalities I harmoniously jived with.  Even the girls I dated tried to not take our relationship "too seriously" because that's something that either organically happens between two people or it doesn't.  If it doesn't, that's ok too. 

I took dating seriously to the extent that one of them could have been "the one" but I also thought that if they were not "the one" the relationship was not in vain because I was learning what "the one" would be like or wouldn't be like.  I'm so glad I dated as much as I did, from a young age too, because my wife is awesome and I am a lucky guy for having found her.   I take marriage seriously, as you may have found out, and dating, like I said was serious to the extent that it helped lead me to my wife.

I dated my wife for 3 years and we were engaged for 1, so 4 years before marriage.  She's still as beautiful as the first time I saw her, which was electrifying btw, and was a feeling I had never had before her . (been married for 3 yrs, have 1 child)

modeled wrote:

I found it to be a game, especially in college.  It's where I learned my likes and dislikes, personalities I romantically clashed with and personalities I harmoniously jived with.  Even the girls I dated tried to not take our relationship "too seriously" because that's something that either organically happens between two people or it doesn't.  If it doesn't, that's ok too. 

I took dating seriously to the extent that one of them could have been "the one" but I also thought that if they were not "the one" the relationship was not in vain because I was learning what "the one" would be like or wouldn't be like.  I'm so glad I dated as much as I did, from a young age too, because my wife is awesome and I am a lucky guy for having found her.   I take marriage seriously, as you may have found out, and dating, like I said was serious to the extent that it helped lead me to my wife.

I dated my wife for 3 years and we were engaged for 1, so 4 years before marriage.  She's still as beautiful as the first time I saw her, which was electrifying btw, and was a feeling I had never had before her . (been married for 3 yrs, have 1 child)

You are such a good man:)

modeled wrote:

I found it to be a game, especially in college.  It's where I learned my likes and dislikes, personalities I romantically clashed with and personalities I harmoniously jived with.  Even the girls I dated tried to not take our relationship "too seriously" because that's something that either organically happens between two people or it doesn't.  If it doesn't, that's ok too. 

I took dating seriously to the extent that one of them could have been "the one" but I also thought that if they were not "the one" the relationship was not in vain because I was learning what "the one" would be like or wouldn't be like.  I'm so glad I dated as much as I did, from a young age too, because my wife is awesome and I am a lucky guy for having found her.   I take marriage seriously, as you may have found out, and dating, like I said was serious to the extent that it helped lead me to my wife.

I dated my wife for 3 years and we were engaged for 1, so 4 years before marriage.  She's still as beautiful as the first time I saw her, which was electrifying btw, and was a feeling I had never had before her . (been married for 3 yrs, have 1 child)

Pretty much this.

I wouldn't have married my husband if I thought that I would fall out of love with him or want something "better" down the line because to me, he is everything I could ever want.

During the dating game, yeah, if I wasn't happy, I didn't stick around. But that wasn't "love" either.

Jules NYC wrote:

You are such a good man:)

I admit I had and have an uncommon amount of good role models.

-Nicole- wrote:
I guess I don't understand why anyone would want to remain with someone who they weren't happy with. For whatever reason.

Damianne wrote:
Me neither.
Apparently, though, there are many that would understand it.
It's fascinating.

Please.

Understanding of someone's reasons has to do with many things.  Open-mindedness maybe.  Enlightenment perhaps.  Fucking nirvana even.  Understanding and respecting those reasons along with the ability to articulate them doesn't equate to the personal embrace and acceptance of those reasons.  Just because you understand someone's reasons for making choices you don't accept doesn't mean you don't have a deliberate opposition to them.

It just means you are either intelligent enough or open-minded enough to see the rationale.

Kincaid Blackwood wrote:

-Nicole- wrote:
I guess I don't understand why anyone would want to remain with someone who they weren't happy with. For whatever reason.

Please.

Understanding of someone's reasons has to do with many things.  Open-mindedness maybe.  Enlightenment perhaps.  Fucking nirvana even.  Understanding and respecting those reasons along with the ability to articulate them doesn't equate to the personal embrace and acceptance of those reasons.  Just because you understand someone's reasons for making choices you don't accept doesn't mean you don't have a deliberate opposition to them.

It just means you are either intelligent enough or open-minded enough to see the rationale.

"Fascinating" wasn't snarky or meant to be demeaning.

Poses wrote:
I didn't get married so that I could be happy. I was already happy. I got married so we could be a team and a family, and I don't think you should ever walk away from family unless they're abusive to you. That's just my value system.

nice