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No Head Shots From Shoot
Okay. Im very annoyed at this point. Please tell me if I am wrong, or if I could even use these type of shots for my port? If someone request to work with you, should that photographer not get head shots for you to have in your portfolio? I am a MUA you know!!!! I am so sick of working with some photographers, especially if it is a TFP project and you give me NOTHING that will aid my portfolio. Out of the hundreds of photos that they take, why are their two headshots if any. I have only had ONE photographer who specifically stated, "Well, now were going to take some head shots or portraits for Jen's portfolio." I mean what in the world am I going to do with these long distance shots where all you see is a lipstick?!!!! I had one who requested to come to MY shoot and when I asked if he had taken any head shots and requested some, he told me "Well, I suppose". I mean...If I hadn't asked, I would have not received any. He was only taking pictures for himself. And it is completely apparent through these photos. And again, this was a shoot I organized for my port and SPECIFICALLY STATED I WANT HEADSHOTS!!!!!! I just want to scream right now. This is why I am NO longer doing TFP. I would rather pay for a photographer to add things to my portfolio and makeup money on worthless shoots like these. I mean what do I get out of this, credit on a photo (if they even remember to add my name) and network with new people. If I will not be receiving a VERY GOOD amount of head shots, I want no contact from these people. What good is this print if it will not be good for my port. And so many of them are too cheap to pay. Models as well. Contacting me because they love my work, but wont pay and cant even give gas money. I mean the shoot isnt for me, its honestly for you. No head shots are being taken for me! So Im the dummy who's work, product and time is being USED! Feb 11 13 10:43 am Link I have a brilliant idea! I know it may seem incredible but you can hire a professional photographer and they will shoot exactly what you want. Your make up work is wonderful and very detailed. Just imagine how wonderful and professional you will look to your customers and how impressed they will be with the images. Grow up, hire a photographer to capture your wonderful work, DONT BE CHEAP! IT SHOWS! Feb 11 13 10:51 am Link Revprint wrote: I DONT THINK THAT YOU READ THE POST, BECAUSE I STATED THAT. AND I ALSO STATED THEY CONTACTED ME. MEANING THEY RESPONDED TO MY POST FOR HEADSHOTS. Feb 11 13 10:56 am Link Deal. Memo. Answers everything. Detail in it what the shoot is for and what kind of photos you are getting from it. If they balk... well, do you really want to work with people who balk at the request to sign what has been agreed upon prior? Feb 11 13 11:07 am Link Definitely make sure the photographer agrees beforehand that he should take a few close-up shots for you. It shouldn't really be a big deal for him or her to add these in while shooting. When i'm testing, i stay close to the model to make sure hair and makeup are in place in every shot and in a slight downtime moment, i will remind the photographer to get closeups. For those test shoots where you didn't get any closeups, ask the photographer to send you some high resolution photos and then just zoom and crop. Hope that helps! P.s. To one of the posters above: It's not about being cheap. Everyone tests in order to improve their portfolio (models, makeup artists, stylists, photographers, etc). I would only pay a photographer if I knew their work was out of this world amazing and it would benefit me greatly. To the OP: I know you're frustrated right now, but it shows in your profile and that's now going to help you get better people to work with- It's just scaring them off. Feb 11 13 11:20 am Link Depending on several factors-- if you can find a few photos from the shoot that are NOT headshots, but that if cropped could create some nice headshots, and if the photos were shot in RAW or uncompressed JPEG and in high resolution (15megapixels+, common these days), you could probably create or have the photographer create some headshots from such photos. An 18 megapixel image such as from a modern DSLR even when cropped to make a headshot will still be an extremely large high resolution photo capable of printed to 12x16 inches or more and of making for a nice hi res image for your portfolio. I started out shooting models years ago with a 6 megapixel digital SLR and even at 6mp I could make 16x20 and even 20x30 inch poster prints, so imagine what an 18 megapixel Canon T4i DSLR (my current camera) could do even with a cropped shot to create a headshot. So there is hope, I suggest contacting the photographer and run this idea past her/him. Hope it works you, you certainly deserve several headshots from a TFP collaboration! Feb 11 13 11:21 am Link Pinch of Pretty MUA wrote: I can't say that I blame you for being upset but TF's can be productive with the right crew. And yes, you would think that if you're a MUA and the photographer knows that, they would get images you can use for your port. I can only say, make it crystal clear to them (the photographer) before hand that you need good head shots for your port. See if they will let you view the images before the shoot is over. Feb 11 13 11:26 am Link ThirdEyeMakeup wrote: I didnt think of that. Im just so upset, you know. This isn't the first time. I created a post and wanted to know of any photogs and models who wanted headshots. And for that photographer to respond and not give me any is really upsetting. Im tired of being taken advantage of. Gas AND makeup is expensive man. LOL. Feb 11 13 11:28 am Link Randall_Oelerich wrote: Thanks. I will definitely do that. I think I'll ask them do it. I dont want them to get offended or be upset that I am misusing their photos. But thank you for the advice. Feb 11 13 11:30 am Link I would tell him about your displeasure with him not sending any headshot even though you made it clear that was what the shoot was for. Obviously this person was very unprofessional. I'm very very picky about who I will work with TFP because I don't want to waste my time like you have stated. It always helps to get references from people they have worked with before. I also look for photogs who have what I am looking for in their port. Next time I would look for someone with a descent amount of headshots that way you know the can deliver. It could have been that his head shot images came out badly and he didn't want to send them. Feb 11 13 11:34 am Link Pinch of Pretty MUA wrote: Yes it's expensive and time consuming! You deserve to get your pictures. Feb 11 13 11:37 am Link You have a right to be annoyed. It just wont help you. I am so sorry. You have a right to your head shots, ESPECIALLY TF*. They are your 'payment' for the work you put into the shoot. My two cents, Daeda1us Feb 11 13 11:40 am Link nevermind Feb 11 13 11:44 am Link What is a good amount of time to hire a photographer for beauty shots? And also, it would make sense to have them come just after Im done with the makeup, right? And do you think I could do another model while he or she is shooting one? Or just do all of them just before the shoot? EX: I feel kind of bad when we set up a shoot and the photographer is waiting around for me to finish. They're usually doing stuff with their camera anyway. (Candid shots and what not; stuff I have no clue about. Setting up I guess.) I try to usually get there 30 mins early for a head start. And do the other models when one is shooting. But what about when the shoot is just for me? Like Im hiring them to just get some headshots for my port. Feb 11 13 11:45 am Link Nevermind Feb 11 13 11:47 am Link When i test, i don't start until photographer, model, stylists, etc. are all here. I set up as soon as I get to the location, but I think it's important to discuss the theme of the shoot, how the makeup will start building up, etc. I start with very clean makeup and then depending on the clothing and concept, i work up to stronger and different looks. Clean "no makeup makeup" shots are very important to have in your portfolio as well. It is a good idea to maximize you time by having another model- If the models are not shooting together, then definitely have the second model come in later so that she doesn't have to wait for the first model to get her makeup done. And while the second model shoots, you can change the first model's makeup look and so forth. Don't worry about the photographer waiting for you to finish the makeup. Proper lighting takes time and a good photographer will be tweaking the lighting until it's perfect for the shot. Feb 11 13 11:53 am Link Pinch of Pretty MUA wrote: Awesome. You solved your own problem. Crisis averted. Feb 11 13 11:59 am Link So sorry to hear you had a bad apple. That really sucks since you were the producer and actually did the heavy lifting to set up the shoot and they didn't deliver on the original concept. I hope you aren't out a lot of money on locations, model fees, etc. Sometimes projects lay an egg; especially low budget ones with lots of non-comital people. Big expensive ones do too. Not sure what you can do in this case. If they didn't capture any headshots, you might be able to crop some heads out of a wider shot. Without any contracts to enforce, you probably should just write this one off as a jerk who can't follow through. Say "Ef 'em" and go find better people who respect you and your time. Put that righteous rage into another project. It sucks now but please take comfort in knowing that your best work is still ahead of you and a hundred shoots from now you will feel better. "Fall down seven times. Stand up eight times." - pithy Japanese saying. Feb 11 13 12:23 pm Link A deal memo is great to use when you need to be specific. In your conversation with the photographer don't let them do all the talking. Clearly state what you want ( they may never really read your info on your profile properly) and ensure it is done with in the first 30 - 60 min of the shoot. The more details you require to ensure the TFP works for all parties the better you weed out the flakes and jerks. I answered a stylist TFP last summer and all I got was a sunburn and a unusable pictures. I clearly don't need anymore pictures in the park so for TFP I like to choose what I need in my port. Otherwise my day rates are very affordable. Feb 11 13 01:19 pm Link Pinch of Pretty MUA wrote: great. Now you can save your money and put together a reasonable budget (around $1200 for model and photographer) and pay someone to help you create a commercially viable portfolio Feb 11 13 01:28 pm Link Pinch of Pretty MUA wrote: and yet somehow, you didn't get what you wanted for free. Feb 11 13 01:29 pm Link Bloom Makeup Artistry wrote: professionals work for money. Professional photographers will be professional because they are being paid. Amateurs do not get paid the majority of the time. Amateurs can be very unprofessional- because they are not professionals Feb 11 13 01:31 pm Link . Expecting professional behavior and results from non professionals is inane YEP....... Feb 11 13 01:42 pm Link ThirdEyeMakeup wrote: IMO, this was the best advice so far. Frequently when I get into a shoot and engage the creative side of my brain, the rational mind goes all to pot. I would love it if the person who has engaged me reminds me of why they engaged me and to "get closeups." Feb 11 13 01:43 pm Link sounds like you got a greedy heartless bastard? I paid MUA's and made sure to shoot lots of head shots just for them. application shots, before /after. but.....my MO was to ALWAYS do 3/4 or more head shots during EVERY shoot. Most of the models I worked with did not have good head shots [if any] in their portfolio. go figure. best wishes OP!!! note: always get what you want in writing first....specified to the letter and signed by all involved.conversations and handshakes are great, but if you don't have it in writing, it never happened--at least that is what they told us in medicine! Feb 11 13 01:44 pm Link Toto Photo wrote: I'm confused who is supposed to be the client in this scenario? The llama? The photographer? The MUA? Feb 11 13 01:55 pm Link Toto Photo wrote: Bingo. On a TF shoot, I want everybody to come away with something useful for the portfolio, but sometimes... I just forget how many people are involved. Just ask: "Could you get me a close-up of the MU for my port?" I can't imagine any photographer refusing. And to not ask on a shoot you're paying for? That's really hard to understand. Feb 11 13 02:15 pm Link I don't even think 3/4 of the people on MM can clearly identify what a headshot or a real beauty shot is. And I agree it is usually best to just pay for what you want. That said when I am shooting an editorial or another project I will try and remember to take a headshot or two for the MUA. If she is getting paid -- not so much unless it is something I want. I don't shoot much TF but I would not be offended at all if a MUA reminded me to take some headshots from each look. Maybe they just forgot? I know that I usually forget to take before and afters and that pisses me off. I have a lot going on and sometimes I forget things like that. If you have someone who can deliver the level of work that you need for TF remind them that you need some closeups for your book. Maybe they just forgot. Feb 11 13 02:15 pm Link Michael Pandolfo wrote: Don't guess I understand your understanding of what a "Trade For" shoot means. You contribute, the model contributes, the MUA contributes... and yet you seem to think the MUA's expectations of a couple of close-ups taken specifically to illustrate his/her work in a manner that might actually be useful for the portfolio are unreasonable. Feb 11 13 02:24 pm Link If you're not getting content that you need from TF* shoots, you either need to... A. - be more assertive in getting what you need (if you don't speak up & don't communicate your needs especially prior to, you have NO ONE to blame but yourself), B. - hire a photographer therefore eliminating the guess'work of will I get stuff I need or won't I, or C. - stop doing TF*'s altogether & give people your rates. Its as simple as that. Feb 11 13 02:45 pm Link Pinch of Pretty MUA wrote: I cropped this out of a larger shot just because I saw the potential as I was going through the photos. Surprised the model when I sent her the crop. Feb 11 13 03:53 pm Link Whenever I am shooting TFP with a new photographer, I send them a polite email/message prior to the shoot, explaining to them that I am currently looking to add more beauty/headshots to my portfolio. I tell him/her that it would benefit me if they could possibly take a few extra minutes to capture these shots. 90% of the photographers will happily agree, as (in my opinion, i'm not looking to start an argument here) when you do a TFP shoot, it is to benefit the portfolio of EVERYONE involved, not JUST the photographer, or JUST the model. The other 5% say that they 'don't really do beauty shots' but they would be happy to crop one of their high-res images. Very seldomly (if ever) they will refuse, and at this point I have to weigh the pros and the cons of the situation - if it is a photographer that I would REALLY like to work with, then I would still do the shoot but - you really have to look at it in terms of, 'will this be worth it for my portfolio?' If you make what you want absolutely clear prior to the shoot, you're more likely to get what you want. Sometimes the photographer can also get excited/distracted, and not even think about/remember to take beauty shots for you. It is not up to him to deal with the 'beauty' aspect of the shoot - he is paying attention to other things; lighting, frame, etc. This is why it is important to always be paying 100% attention to what is going on when you're on set. If you notice that he hasn't taken any beauty shots, there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking him nicely 'could you please take a few beauty shots for my portfolio before we change the look' Again, I have NEVER had a photographer act negatively toward me when I ask that question, though I'm sure it is possible. Hopefully this helps, best of luck getting what you want out of future shoots! :] Feb 11 13 05:45 pm Link Sourcelight Photography wrote: and that is the difference between shooting professionally and shooting as a hobby. A professional photographer is shooting with a large team trying to get the best image possible, period. If it is beauty it is beauty, if it is fashion it is fashion, lifestyle, you get it. Feb 11 13 07:03 pm Link Pinch of Pretty MUA wrote: While I think any photographer that uses you as a MUA for TF should provide you with some shots that accent your talents, it comes down to what causes most problems in MM--communications. Feb 11 13 07:10 pm Link If you are working with an awesome team, you don't need "head shots" It's not the makeup you really need to show...it's the team work and quality of photo that will impress people looking at your book. You need to show that quality people work with you.... Artists need to remember....It's not about the makeup. If you want to impress a potential client, just show them great images with clean makeup and a great team. Thats my 2 cents... Feb 11 13 09:32 pm Link L Cowles Photography wrote: From what I gleaned that is what she did. Feb 11 13 09:44 pm Link I include headshots in most of my shoots - especially if it's my first shoot with a model and/or if she has particularly good makeup. Some of the MUA's I've done trade shoots with have specifically asked for headshots or beauty shots, and I always accommodate their requests. If the MUA stays around for the shoot, she can look at the images on the camera's LCD screen and see if what I'm shooting is what she had in mind. Occasionally an MUA will ask me to do a separate shoot for her (with the MUA's concept and/or model) as part of the trade, and I'm amenable to that as well. The fact is, there's an endless supply of models on MM (some of whom will drive hundreds of miles for a trade shoot) - but not of MUA's. Anyone who likes to involve MUA's in their trade shoots would do well to keep them happy. Feb 11 13 09:47 pm Link Mary wrote: +1 Feb 11 13 10:44 pm Link Mary wrote: I agree with that but I also think a makeup artist should have a few kickbutt beauty shots in her book that showcase her work. Feb 11 13 11:02 pm Link I think you just found a photog that you Don't want to work with again. ;-) Feb 11 13 11:07 pm Link |
