Garry k wrote:
82 per cent of the models in this years NYFW were white , with 14 companies ( designers ) employing no models of color for their shows


http://jezebel.com/5985110/new-york-fas … ing-whiter

What is your investment in your post?

Tony Lawrence wrote:

LOL... Its a blue moon!

moons of color are traditionally under-represented

AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:
wait....82% of the models were white and 14% of the population is black and there's a problem? we are complaining that the whites are under-represented?

its a bit more than black and white

Cait W wrote:
Hey, finally something positive about being uber pale, because I'm about as pale as it gets. At the beach it's blinding. XD

Yeah, well you've got an insider's edge.  When I first saw your pic and then perused your port, my recurring thought was that you reminded me of a young Lauren Graham.    If that's the result of being uber pale, hooray for pale!!

White Lace Studios wrote:
Number given to white models: 3706 (82.7%)
Number given to models of color: 776 (17.3%)
Number given to Latina models:90 (2%)
Number given to Asian models: 409 (9.1%)
Number given to black models: 271 (6%)
Number given to models of other ethnicities: 12 (0.2%

Somebody can't count.

That lot comes to 117.3%




Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:

Somebody can't count.

That lot comes to 117.3%




Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

oh come on ...you are smarter than that

what do you think "models of color" refers to?

White Lace Studios wrote:
Number given to white models: 3706 (82.7%)
Number given to models of color: 776 (17.3%)
Number given to Latina models:90 (2%)
Number given to Asian models: 409 (9.1%)
Number given to black models: 271 (6%)
Number given to models of other ethnicities: 12 (0.2%

-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
Somebody can't count.

That lot comes to 117.3%

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Or they can't read.  "Models of color" is comprised of the groups of Latina, Asian, black and other enthicities.  Hence the 17.3% discrepancy.

Let's just assume you were making a joke.

Garry k wrote:
oh come on ...you are smarter than that

what do you think "models of color" refers to?

Please recalibrate your sense of humour.

Sheesh!





Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Marin Photography wrote:
I am a person of color and well is it getting whiter? No, it's just more of the same -

Pretty much.

Guss W wrote:
Who's buying their product?

+10000

udor wrote:

No... that is not the reason, because in NY the amount of ethnic diverse models that fit the standard runway requirements are more than abundant.

+1

Tiff
www.TiffineyC.com

The Spaces Between wrote:
geez, who is spending their time looking for things to be offended about?

Making an observation = taking offense?

EMILY  C wrote:

Hair color isn't a protected class in the U.S.

Race is.

Or do these laws not apply to those who work in the fashion industry?  And if so, how and why are they exempt?

Please enlighten me - no snark - I'm truly interested!

Modeling is not protected by the same requirements as many industries. Hiring based on someone's looks wouldn't go over well at IBM but it's a BFOQ (Bona Fide Occupational Qualification) in the modeling/fashion industry.

You certainly couldn't discriminate against a wheelchair-bound handicapped person in a "normal" corporate environment, but they would have a hard time citing discrimination if they were trying to be a Runway Model.

A BFOQ is the reason why Hooter's isn't sued more often (other than the one famous case years ago where a hairy guy sued to work as a waiter...and lost). Being an attractive female is considered a BFOQ there.

Stephanie_Bee wrote:
Its very disappointing and sad the number of photographers in this thread saying 'so what', 'looking for something to be offended about' etc. Those remarks obviously come from quite a priveleged place. For some reason I expected this to be more of a progressive community.

there a fair number of folks here who are not very progressive in their views regarding racial equality

Paolo Diavolo wrote:
*shrugs*
certain ethnicities excel in different things;
fashion, sports, entertainment, medical, technology, or service industries.

82% in that fashion show were white,..
in 2011 83% of players in the NBA were not white.
no biggie.
hopefully the best rise to the top, and deserve their hard earned success.
thats something that should be appreciated by all regardless of backgrounds.

**Claps**

Stephanie_Bee wrote:
Its very disappointing and sad the number of photographers in this thread saying 'so what', 'looking for something to be offended about' etc. Those remarks obviously come from quite a priveleged place. For some reason I expected this to be more of a progressive community.

Stephanie, the issue of change isn't in the hands of the photographers.  But, rather such change comes from those seeking it!  Meaning: if you want equal opportunity as a llama aka "business"... create equal quality of work as your market/clients may demand. 

Example... you're dreaming if you're of "fashion" llama stats with glamour type tfp images and low grade no name agency representation yet you expect to walk FW runway shows.  Example... you're dreaming if you want to grace the pages of Vogue but you're a beginner lifestyle/commercial internet llama working gwc's. 

I'm not dumping on anyone but as a man of color... I understand the quest for equality and I understand that quality seeks quality or the presumption of such quality!

Remember... our President is strong, educated, non criminal, loving husband, devoted father, progressive man of color aka black from humble beginnings and the bigot hates it!  I hope you see my point! 

I am not familiar with the specific laws in the US (or Canada for that matter) but my experience when working on film and television is that acting roles are essentially excluded from the laws, or at the very least a great deal of latitude is given.  Generally speaking when casting actors for leading roles you could limit to whatever race(s) you want.

It would be somewhat weird if - say - a sitcom which is set in an afro-american family living in a dominantly black quarter in the 1930ies had to hire a balanced cast of actors of all descents. Or having Mrs.Huxtable played by a white actress and one of the Huxtable childs by an child actor of Chinese descent...

Even the most absurd manifestations of political correctness are eventually limited by common sense.

Garry k wrote:
Sorry but I have to ask

Do You view China as a "melting pot " of ethnic diversity and do you view China as a democracy  ( as the US is considered )

No.

But I see this:

US demographics:

White     72.4%
Black American     12.6%
Asian     4.8%
American Indian and Alaska Native     0.9%
Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander     0.2%
Other     6.2%
Multiracial (2 or more)     2.9%

So a 82% quota of "white models" at the New York Fashion week is as unsurprising as a 82% quota of "chinese models" at the Shanghai Fashion week.

82% of "white models" with 72% white population is no discrimination but just a small statistic deviation. Next year it may be 69% and 2015 it may be 85%.

So what?

And - really - I do not think that hiring models for the New York Fashion week on basis of a precise representation of demographic statistics would do anyone any favour.

At least 30% of the models should be over 50 years old then... ;-)

.........................................

To add deliberately something which may be political uncorrect:

It's a well known phenomenon that a lot of girls and women in Asia try to change their look towards looking more "european"...

Cosmetic surgeons in Asia earn a lot of money by "rounding" slitted eyes. Etc.pp.

So it is not a surprise that marketing people may come to the conclusion that it is easier to sell clothing to asian women using a model with a "european look" than selling clothing to non asian women with a model with a "asian look".

Life is not all guns and roses. (The german equivalent by the way would translate literally "Life is not a pony farm".)

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
Modeling is not protected by the same requirements as many industries. Hiring based on someone's looks wouldn't go over well at IBM but it's a BFOQ (Bona Fide Occupational Qualification) in the modeling/fashion industry.

You certainly couldn't discriminate against a wheelchair-bound handicapped person in a "normal" corporate environment, but they would have a hard time citing discrimination if they were trying to be a Runway Model.

A BFOQ is the reason why Hooter's isn't sued more often (other than the one famous case years ago where a hairy guy sued to work as a waiter...and lost). Being an attractive female is considered a BFOQ there.

I understand BFOQ -- but race is excluded from BFOQ.

Not arguing what goes on in the entertainment industry, just saying this can't be used as a defense.

MC Photo wrote:
No it doesn't.

That shows the percentage in jail. You need to compare that to how many should be in jail. Maybe instead of being 1% of the population it should be 5% and we're underpolicing relative to the rest of the world.

That's not necessarily what I believe, but that chart doesn't have any meaning to what it shows. It's just a statistic on it's own.

Partly it simply shows that in the US less people are sentenced to a suspended sentence.

In Germany for instance ~ 75 percent of verdicts end in a suspended sentence. Even if it is the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh sentence. Sentences below 3years of imprisonment usually are given as a suspended sentence. It's the exception that you end up in jail after a verdict in Germany - not the rule. And jail terms for many crimes and misdemeanor are shorter than in the US. (When I watch "Law & Order" I often think: ok, in New York this guy gets 10 to 25 years for this crime. In Germany he would go away with 5 years maximum.)

So it's not a surprise that US jails are more crowded than German jails.

Cait W wrote:
Hey, finally something positive about being uber pale, because I'm about as pale as it gets. At the beach it's blinding. XD

Light skin (Pale) is good. Like a blank canvas just waiting for color to be added.

TomFRohwer wrote:

It would be somewhat weird if - say - a sitcom which is set in an afro-american family living in a dominantly black quarter in the 1930ies had to hire a balanced cast of actors of all descents. Or having Mrs.Huxtable played by a white actress and one of the Huxtable childs by an child actor of Chinese descent...

Even the most absurd manifestations of political correctness are eventually limited by common sense.

why would you compare a multi show event to a single tv show

there were 270 onsite and offsite fashion shows featured at NYFW Fall Winter 2012 ( and I am sure this past season was little different )

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/02/16/new … e-numbers/

a better comparison would be between a NYFW and a network of TV programming - but that would'nt work so well for you argument

Saadiq Photography wrote:
Stephanie, the issue of change isn't in the hands of the photographers.  But, rather such change comes from those seeking it!  Meaning: if you want equal opportunity as a model aka "business"... create equal quality of work as your market/clients may demand. 

Example... you're dreaming if you're of "fashion" model stats with glamour type tfp images and low grade no name agency representation yet you expect to walk FW runway shows.  Example... you're dreaming if you want to grace the pages of Vogue but you're a beginner lifestyle/commercial internet model working gwc's. 

I'm not dumping on anyone but as a man of color... I understand the quest for equality and I understand that quality seeks quality or the presumption of such quality!

Remember... our President is strong, educated, non criminal, loving husband, devoted father, progressive man of color aka black from humble beginnings and the bigot hates it!  I hope you see my point! 

ok so I now have to ask you ( as we have had some discussions regarding this general topic before )

You are a Black ( Professional ) Fashion Photographer living in the USA yet your portfolio contains very few black models ...Is it because qualified black fashion models are not approaching you to be photographed or is it because of some other reason ?

and by qualified I mean with industry looks and stats ( outside of their skin color 0

TomFRohwer wrote:
.........................................

To add deliberately something which may be political uncorrect:

It's a well known phenomenon that a lot of girls and women in Asia try to change their look towards looking more "european"...

Cosmetic surgeons in Asia earn a lot of money by "rounding" slitted eyes. Etc.pp.

So it is not a surprise that marketing people may come to the conclusion that it is easier to sell clothing to asian women using a model with a "european look" than selling clothing to non asian women with a model with a "asian look".

Life is not all guns and roses. (The german equivalent by the way would translate literally "Life is not a pony farm".)

True , I have met Asian fashion designers who even refuse to use Asian models in their shows ...Sad really

Garry k wrote:
82 per cent of the models in this years NYFW were white , with 14 companies ( designers ) employing no models of color for their shows


http://jezebel.com/5985110/new-york-fas … ing-whiter

Let's keep in mind that only 13 percent of the U.S. population is black.

TomFRohwer wrote:

No.

But I see this:

US demographics:

White     72.4%
Black American     12.6%
Asian     4.8%
American Indian and Alaska Native     0.9%
Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander     0.2%
Other     6.2%
Multiracial (2 or more)     2.9%

So a 82% quota of "white models" at the New York Fashion week is as unsurprising as a 82% quota of "chinese models" at the Shanghai Fashion week.

82% of "white models" with 72% white population is no discrimination but just a small statistic deviation. Next year it may be 69% and 2015 it may be 85%.

So what?

And - really - I do not think that hiring models for the New York Fashion week on basis of a precise representation of demographic statistics would do anyone any favour.

At least 30% of the models should be over 50 years old then... ;-)

.........................................

To add deliberately something which may be political uncorrect:

It's a well known phenomenon that a lot of girls and women in Asia try to change their look towards looking more "european"...

Cosmetic surgeons in Asia earn a lot of money by "rounding" slitted eyes. Etc.pp.

So it is not a surprise that marketing people may come to the conclusion that it is easier to sell clothing to asian women using a model with a "european look" than selling clothing to non asian women with a model with a "asian look".

Life is not all guns and roses. (The german equivalent by the way would translate literally "Life is not a pony farm".)

What a great great post. Should be copied and pasted everywhere.

Thank you so much for standing up and telling the truth.

Love your line about the Chinese fashion show showing mainly Chinese people. Spot on.

I shoot ballet themes, should I be required to show plus size models in ballet outfits? This whole thinking is ridiculous.

Good post.

Igmar Photography wrote:

What a great great post. Should be copied and pasted everywhere.

Thank you so much for standing up and telling the truth.

Love your line about the Chinese fashion show showing mainly Chinese people. Spot on.

I shoot ballet themes, should I be required to show plus size models in ballet outfits? This whole thinking is ridiculous.

Good post.

sorry what truth is being told here ...maybe the truth that you wish to believe perhaps ?

Philipe wrote:
Fall, winter season......
By nature there is no tans in that season.. I know it sounds silly.
But it does not mean there are not any non white models, just not as much..

Try summer and bring on the Brazilians, Spanish and black models..

brazilian and spanish are not ethnicities, they're countries. Maybe you meant to say Hispanic?
I have a feeling a lot of people in the US seem to think people from spain look "hispanic", but the majority of them look white. Mostly with dark hair, and they tan easily, but they look just as white as italians or greek, for instance .

Garry k wrote:

why would you compare a multi show event to a single tv show

I did not do so.

It's just an example that there are reasonable limits to affirmative actions.

As far as the New York Fashion Week is concerned I cannot see anything disturbing with their quotas because the quota corresponds roughly to the "racial mix" of the US population.

(And I do not see any sense in "because there are 12,6% black americans in the US the NYFW has to hire 84,6 models with black american descend. I do not see any sense in deci-models on the runway at all...)

Igmar Photography wrote:
What a great great post. Should be copied and pasted everywhere.

Thank you so much for standing up and telling the truth.

Boy - you are living in the country of the First Amendment. (Freedom is the only thing that wears off if you do not use ist.)

I shoot ballet themes, should I be required to show plus size models in ballet outfits? This whole thinking is ridiculous.

In 50 or 100 years people will look in disbelief at our "political correctness" as we are looking in disbelief at the Inquisition or the McCarthy era today.

Anna Adrielle wrote:
I have a feeling a lot of people in the US seem to think people from spain look "hispanic", but the majority of them look white. Mostly with dark hair, and they tan easily, but they look just as white as italians or greek, for instance .

I friend of mine who's living in Spain for 25 years always claims "most spanish women are blonde"...

Anna Adrielle wrote:
The reason why so few ethnic models are used has nothing to do with "pleasing a consumer", or "ethnic models don't meet the same standards" or "there's just not enough ethnic models out there". it's just because that is how it's always been done, for decades, and they're doing well so why would they change (if it ain't broke, don't fix it...).

I agree largely but ...

It just takes two or three years after the opening of the "iron curtain" in 1989 that models of "slavic" descent (commonly but wrongly called "eastern european") and "slavic look" conquered the model world. They looked quite different from the models dominating the scene so far.

Fashion industry people, designers, photographers and customers were enthusiastic with this new look in short time.

TomFRohwer wrote:

Igmar Photography wrote:
What a great great post. Should be copied and pasted
In 50 or 100 years people will look in disbelief at our "political correctness" as we are looking in disbelief at the Inquisition or the McCarthy era today.

So in your mind a govt purge of communist support is the same as an ethnic minority's effort to gain equality of opportunity in employment ?

TomFRohwer wrote:

I friend of mine who's living in Spain for 25 years always claims "most spanish women are blonde"...

that's true :p. A lot of italian and spanish women dye their hair... it's a very distinctive look, you can always pick them out in the crowd, because you can see by the olive tone of their skin they're not natural blondes, but a lot of them go blonde anyway