This thread was locked on 2013-03-15 21:06:47
Retoucher
Alejandro Crespo
Posts: 133
Santa Cruz, Santa Cruz, Bolivia
Jakov Markovic wrote:
At 10$ an hour I had plenty of clients, but never more than I could handle working 8 hour days.
If I had more clients, I would've raised my price.
I can not explain to people that you can't work for 15$ ah hour in McDonalds in China, or Russia, or Eastern Europe, or Africa, or South America.
North America, Japan, Europe and Australia are not the whole world!!!
Maybe I should make a retouching portfolio here. Ok, lets requote that, for the places you mentioned.
A person with talent and a head, will not waste his time retouching for low prices, because they can easily find a job as a graphic designer, post-producer, or anything else they can do as good as the retouching in other sphere that pays the money they need to live as they want. There is a LOT of professions that pay good money in ANY country.
The ones you get for low price are mostly the ones that dont fall in the above category and they dont gonna last in retouching for a long time nor they gonna reach the lever of retouching that the ones above could reach. They will not be able to even buy a good pc with a decent tablet charging that money lol
Retoucher
alberta86
Posts: 64
Orlando, Florida, US
Zorka wrote:
As I told to OP, sometimes what we are looking for is much closer then we think... 
P.S. I'm not that good in the kitchen, but we can always order something to be delivered! Looks like there's more than one match being made here :-D ...I'm definitely staying tuned...
Retoucher
Ovidiu Oltean
Posts: 179
Sibiu, Sibiu, Romania
Zorka wrote:
Sometimes what we are looking for is much closer then we think...  and sometimes what we are looking for is more expensive then we think, hahaha.
Photographer
Jakov Markovic
Posts: 1128
Belgrade, Central Serbia, Serbia
You know what guys, seeing where this is going, I've downloaded some images form this forum, and I'm gonna show you how I do it on a random, other photographer's image.
Like this is simple. I can't believe that I almost started a riot by just looking for a retoucher that knows to take things easy and achieve a good result, nothing fancy.
Retoucher
a k mac
Posts: 476
London, England, United Kingdom
Jakov Markovic wrote:
You know what guys, seeing where this is going, I've downloaded some images form this forum, and I'm gonna show you how I do it on a random, other photographer's image. Why? What's that got to do with anything?
Photographer
Star
Posts: 17966
Los Angeles, California, US
Alejandro Crespo wrote:
Exactly, more affordable living environment doesnt involve the hardware (that usually is a lot more expensive than in "less affordable living environments" and one have to spend min 10k$ on that).
I would like to know TS reaction to lets say Vogue wanting a shoot from him and willing to pay 400 EU (or far less than that) for a shoot just because thats what a serbian mid-range photographer charges for a session lol. Vogue pays $500 for a cover.
Photographer
Star
Posts: 17966
Los Angeles, California, US
Jakov Markovic wrote:
I've been retouching for 5-10 bucks an hour, and I did a very good job, maybe not artistically excellent, but I've cleaned those images pretty well.
And I find it strange that I can't find anyone who does what I do for the same price. I can't agree or disagree, because this is not in the critique forum.
Photographer
Star
Posts: 17966
Los Angeles, California, US
Jakov Markovic wrote:
You know what guys, seeing where this is going, I've downloaded some images form this forum, and I'm gonna show you how I do it on a random, other photographer's image.
Like this is simple. I can't believe that I almost started a riot by just looking for a retoucher that knows to take things easy and achieve a good result, nothing fancy. great, for nothing fancy (still some shortcuts like blur might be present) you are looking at between $50-$100 an hour
for better than that, lets say journeyman level $75-$150 an hour
for great you are looking at $150-$250
for master level $250-$500
for master level compositing $750+ an hour
for $10 an image you are going to get someone who is going to blur than high pass and ignore any type of healing or cloning tools, they will work without layers and you will get a hot mess of a photo
Photographer
Daniel Ecoff
Posts: 426
SHERMAN OAKS, California, US
This is a simple case of informed and/or not informed expectations and information.
Think of it in simple terms:
1) you get what you pay for
2) your idea of what retouchers make/charge might be unrealistic. (PROFESSIONAL)
3) finding someone that can provide you services for your budget and still get the quality you expect. (EXPECTATIONS)
4) stay away from beer pocket book and champagne taste.
5) charge more for your photography to justify a more professional post result.
6) dont expect Professionals to work on your budget, you need to find a way to work on theirs.
Bottom line: try and stay away from going into a creative partnership/collaboration telling someone what you will/can pay. Rather find the person that you click with creatively and find terms that fullfill both parties needs and expectations.
No self respecting Professional Retoucher will work on images for $10.00 or $20.00 per image. Its takes me at least 1 hour to build the workflow without finishing. This includes, (FS,D&B,Heal,Color,Carving, etc.)
however, in hind-site, based on what Im hearing and feeling, PROFESSIONAL is most likely overkill for your needs.
These are simple truths.
Retoucher
Alexey Adamitsky
Posts: 226
Minsk, Minsk, Belarus
Agree with the poster above. You don't need professional. Look for a good amateur for your needs who have good taste in retouching and have solid understanding of basics. I think it'll be beneficial for both. You'll get good work the price you can afford and he'll have a chance to practice, grow professionally, get honest feedback with a guidance for his work and make some money.
Photographer
Kevin Connery
Posts: 17824
El Segundo, California, US
 Moderator Note! Jakov Markovic wrote:
You know what guys, seeing where this is going, I've downloaded some images form this forum, and I'm gonna show you how I do it on a random, other photographer's image. Please review the forum rules before doing so. That includes critiquing other, copyright issues, boorish behavior and more.
Retoucher
Alejandro Crespo
Posts: 133
Santa Cruz, Santa Cruz, Bolivia
Star wrote:
Vogue pays $500 for a cover. oh common, just put Nike in place of Vogue  . gonn change that !
forgott that magazines pay mostly with credit-.-
Photographer
richy01
Posts: 153
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Jakov Markovic wrote:
Your work is fine, it's not mind-blowing, but you don't destroy an image, and that is always a plus.
Maybe I should put up my own before/afters to just give a perspective of what I'm looking for. wow, nice comment...
Imho your retouchwork doesn't stand out..bases for a good retouchjob is a good image and I don't see those?
Retoucher
njnjos
Posts: 156
Mumbai, Maharashtra, India
hi this is Nitesh here. i am a retoucher past 11 yrs. i don't wanna say anything jst wan't to say pls send 1 of yr image & i will retouch that image & send u bck after that u decide... send me @ ( [email protected])
Retoucher
Alexey Adamitsky
Posts: 226
Minsk, Minsk, Belarus
Me retouch you cheap fast. P.S. Check your grammar njnjos.
Photographer
Jakov Markovic
Posts: 1128
Belgrade, Central Serbia, Serbia
Alexey Adamitsky wrote:
Me retouch you cheap fast.
P.S. Check your grammar njnjos. Turns out I can't even post what I think is a basic retouch.
Amazing images that Alexey, Natalia and others produce, that is art, but basic clean-up really isn't, and I don't know why do many feel offended by that.
Retoucher
Alejandro Crespo
Posts: 133
Santa Cruz, Santa Cruz, Bolivia
Jakov Markovic wrote:
Turns out I can't even post what I think is a basic retouch.
Amazing images that Alexey, Natalia and others produce, that is art, but basic clean-up really isn't, and I don't know why do many feel offended by that. basic clean-up?.
I think it involves:
-skin correction/improvement (up to 4-5 hrs of DnB depending on image)
-face structure correction/improvement (30mins-couple of hours carving,liquify, etc)
-make-up correction/improvement (15-2 hours depending on complexity)
-lighting correction/improvement (5min-hour)
-color correction/improvement (5-30min)
Any "basic clean-up" can take anywhere from 2-8/10 hours.
I think you should just buy some imagenomic/topaz plugin and just use that for your clean-up, since no human factore need to be used here, judging by your words lol
Photographer
Jakov Markovic
Posts: 1128
Belgrade, Central Serbia, Serbia
People have gone mad. I have the most advanced retouchers in the world being mad at me for having this budget that I have, and I am not aiming at you guys/gals, as much as I love your work, I ain't even close to being at your level. Amateurs who are mad at me, as I won't hire them, even if they can't help me. And me who is trying to explain that all I need is someone to DNB the images with no compositing, hair work or any of the difficult stuff. Cheese Louise. Ya'll made me look like a devil or something.
Photographer
Ruben Vasquez
Posts: 3117
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Jakov Markovic wrote:
People have gone mad.
I have the most advanced retouchers in the world being mad at me for having this budget that I have, and I am not aiming at you guys/gals, as much as I love your work, I ain't even close to being at your level.
Amateurs who are mad at me, as I won't hire them, even if they can't help me.
And me who is trying to explain that all I need is someone to DNB the images with no compositing, hair work or any of the difficult stuff.
Cheese Louise. Ya'll made me look like a devil or something. Really? That's why you think you're getting all this push-back? I was thinking more along the lines of:
Natalia_Taffarel wrote:
honestly... with your attitude I wouldn't work with you for all the money in the world Honestly, I would read back through this thread and reconsider everything you've written with how you come across to others. Ask yourself if you really think what you wrote actually conveyed the message you originally intended. Maybe then you'll understand why you're not getting much in the way of positive feedback.
Retoucher
Megan E Griscom
Posts: 525
Bordentown, New Jersey, US
Ruben Vasquez wrote:
Jakov Markovic wrote:
People have gone mad.
I have the most advanced retouchers in the world being mad at me for having this budget that I have, and I am not aiming at you guys/gals, as much as I love your work, I ain't even close to being at your level.
Amateurs who are mad at me, as I won't hire them, even if they can't help me.
And me who is trying to explain that all I need is someone to DNB the images with no compositing, hair work or any of the difficult stuff.
Cheese Louise. Ya'll made me look like a devil or something. Really? That's why you think you're getting all this push-back? I was thinking more along the lines of:
Honestly, I would read back through this thread and reconsider everything you've written with how you come across to others. Ask yourself if you really think what you wrote actually conveyed the message you originally intended. Maybe then you'll understand why you're not getting much in the way of positive feedback. +1
and +1 on the 'boorish behavior' comment from the moderator.
Photographer
KMP
Posts: 4834
Houston, Texas, US
Jakov Markovic wrote:
People have gone mad.
I have the most advanced retouchers in the world being mad at me for having this budget that I have, and I am not aiming at you guys/gals, as much as I love your work, I ain't even close to being at your level.
Amateurs who are mad at me, as I won't hire them, even if they can't help me.
And me who is trying to explain that all I need is someone to DNB the images with no compositing, hair work or any of the difficult stuff.
Cheese Louise. Ya'll made me look like a devil or something. You may be better off offering a casting call for the money you want to pay. Weed through what you feel you can get and decide who are most likely to give you what you want.
From what I read here it sounds like you asked for collaboration then went about insulting one retoucher after another.
You may contact those that you respect and see if they are interested.
If not something has to budge.. Either your budget gets bigger, your expectations are reduced, you keep looking and/or keep doing it yourself.
EDIT: After reading some more replies.. maybe a course on people skills would be in order.
Photographer
Jakov Markovic
Posts: 1128
Belgrade, Central Serbia, Serbia
I haven't said a single insult. I have nothing but respect for the many great artists who commented in this thread. If nothing, I am honored that someone I admire takes time to reply to something I say.
Ones who have the right to be offended, and offended by their own ignorance, are many many many who present them selves as retouchers, yet try every trick on an image except for one thing: actually working on it.
It must be a "cool" thing to be a retoucher these days.
Anyway, I am still looking for someone to DNB/heal/do basic clean up of the images for up to 20$ an image.
Of course I don't expect the return to be a Vogue-ready picture, but rather a clean version of what I had sent in, but at the same time something I can add to if I fall in love with an image at a latter date for some reason or other.
Obviously, many of those who do DNB well, do other things well also, and don't need to be bothered by this sort of work, when they can do something more interesting for more money and exposure.
From start to finish I couldn't have been more clear, and I even posted the examples of the extent of work I expect to be done.
Thankfully, along with this endless writing, some retouchers who's work I am very pleased with, have come my way, and it is likely that we'll cooperate on further projects.
Also, I can't put a casting up, as it requires me to select a country and a city, and thus it is impossible to do a world-wide casting.
Photographer
Kevin Connery
Posts: 17824
El Segundo, California, US
Moderator Note! Jakov Markovic wrote:
Also, I can't put a casting up, as it requires me to select a country and a city, and thus it is impossible to do a world-wide casting. That IS the correct place for this. The forums are not the place to hire people.
Retouchers and digital artists can search without specifying a country, city, or region/state, and most of them do. Simply post a casting call wherever you want--local is probably best, though--and people looking will find it.
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Moderator Note!
. gonn change that !