Longwatcher wrote:
* = I know I did, I had forgotten completely about Canon's DPP, which came free with my camera and they had a recent update (also free). While not ACR, it does that part of it as good as I need it. I hadn't even bothered to load it when I bought my 1DsMkIII because I had ACR, but if I am going to lose ACR, I figured I should check out the latest version of DPP and it is much better then I remember it being. It is now loaded on my primary computer. Thanks to Adobe.

Adobe have persuaded themselves that there are no alternatives and they are wrong!

Longwatcher wrote:
.... I had forgotten completely about Canon's DPP, which came free with my camera and they had a recent update (also free). While not ACR, it does that part of it as good as I need it. I hadn't even bothered to load it when I bought my 1DsMkIII because I had ACR, but if I am going to lose ACR, I figured I should check out the latest version of DPP and it is much better then I remember it being. It is now loaded on my primary computer. Thanks to Adobe.

I noticed even Nikon updated their ViewNX2 (Image viewer) and their Capture NX2 (Editor) yesterday as well.  Coincidence?

Odd.  I see Corel just dropped their price of "Paint Shop Pro X5 Ultimate" from $99 to $69 (38% reduction on their website).  http://www.corel.com/corel/product/inde … id=8100006  And that is for the full version, and not a prior upgrade price!  I smell boardroom meetings somewhere since Adobe's announcement.

Wonder how Corel's (Paint Shop Pro) stock is doing?  I cannot find it on the exchange.  If they integrate all these sundry PS plugins that seem written for PS alone, it's bye-bye Adobe.  They could peddle it for a lot more than their $99 price too since PS has been over $700 for so long.  Providing they to do not go into leased monthly payment "The Cloud" vaporware.

GRMACK wrote:
Wonder how Corel's (Paint Shop Pro) stock is doing?  I cannot find it on the exchange.  If they integrate all these sundry PS plugins that seem written for PS alone, it's bye-bye Adobe.  They could peddle it for a lot more than their $99 price too since PS has been over $700 for so long.  Providing they to do not go into leased monthly payment "The Cloud" vaporware.

As far as I know most or all third party plug-ins for Adobe work perfectly well with PSP. PSP seems to have originated with another bout of Adobe corporate madness when all of their coders walked out on them and started a rival product, which Corel eventually took over. They seem incapable of learning.

WMcK wrote:

Adobe have persuaded themselves that there are no alternatives and they are wrong!

I think we'll have to wait and see.

Personally I don't find the monthly fee exorbitant at all. Here in Europe it's the same price as four pints of beer ( or four cups of coffee ) a week. That's for the full suite. PS on its own is just £17.58 a month

It will be VAT and tax deductible as well.

I'm not seeing a problem in the professional market place.

AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:
how quickly we went from content-aware-fill to wallet-aware-empty

and that folks, is a quote.

Love it.

GRMACK wrote:

I noticed even Nikon updated their ViewNX2 (Image viewer) and their Capture NX2 (Editor) yesterday as well.  Coincidence?

Odd.  I see Corel just dropped their price of "Paint Shop Pro X5 Ultimate" from $99 to $69 (38% reduction on their website).  http://www.corel.com/corel/product/inde … id=8100006  And that is for the full version, and not a prior upgrade price!  I smell boardroom meetings somewhere since Adobe's announcement.

Wonder how Corel's (Paint Shop Pro) stock is doing?  I cannot find it on the exchange.  If they integrate all these sundry PS plugins that seem written for PS alone, it's bye-bye Adobe.  They could peddle it for a lot more than their $99 price too since PS has been over $700 for so long.  Providing they to do not go into leased monthly payment "The Cloud" vaporware.

Remember that Corel almost destroyed itself due to a greedy, spendthrift CEO.
And then HP becoming a wraith of itself due to a CEO.

Adobe, it can and will happen.

Mike Snarr wrote:
I can't believe so many people are being so negative about this. Surly now we can charge our clients a fixed monthly price, that we can up any time we want, for looking at the images we produce even if they don't bother to. I'm getting my PC set up to start printing repeat invoices right now, it'll be just like printing money for us won't it?

I get that this is tongue deeply in cheek.

Problem is a lot a people really think it.

RONALD NZ TAN wrote:
If people are worried about new camera updates and not being able to have access to the latest ACR, PhaseONE CaptureONE PRO is superb alternative to ACR.

Can you do extensive composition or retouching with those programs?

Herman Surkis wrote:

Remember that Corel almost destroyed itself due to a greedy, spendthrift CEO.
And then HP becoming a wraith of itself due to a CEO.

Adobe, it can and will happen.

Corel isn't destroyed?

They were a serious player early 90s. I haven't even heard their name for a few years until you said it here.

Andrew Kaiser wrote:
No thanks Adobe. 

I am still using CS2 which I bought and paid for and it looks like I will continue doing so for as long as possible.  No way will I pay a monthly subscription for Photoshop.

I think I will upgrade to CS6.  When I can't use that anymore, I will switch to something else (Elements might work for me).  This policy move also has me thinking about dumping LR for CaptureOne.

Adobe:  I used to upgrade photoshop every other version (about $200 every 2 years or so) and LR every time ($100 every year or so).  Now, you may get nothing more from me at all (after CS6). 

I will be downloading a trial version of CaptureOne soon.

Yan Tan Tethera wrote:

I think we'll have to wait and see.

Personally I don't find the monthly fee exorbitant at all. Here in Europe it's the same price as four pints of beer ( or four cups of coffee ) a week. That's for the full suite. PS on its own is just £17.58 a month

It will be VAT and tax deductible as well.

I'm not seeing a problem in the professional market place.

Traditionally the professional market has made up a paltry percentage of the photography industry.  If you think that Nikon, Canon and the rest of the manufactures are able to make a profit off of just the professional market you're sadly mistaken. I would imagine the great majority of those using Adobe products are no professionals.

KevinMcGowanPhotography wrote:

Can you do extensive composition or retouching with those programs?

It's more a replacement for Lightroom than it is for Photoshop. But I think "bring Adobe down to reality a program at a time."

Herman Surkis wrote:

Love it.

Thanks. I was quite pleased. But Mike Snarr's first post is possibly deserving an award.

Yan Tan Tethera wrote:
I think we'll have to wait and see.

Personally I don't find the monthly fee exorbitant at all. Here in Europe it's the same price as four pints of beer ( or four cups of coffee ) a week. That's for the full suite. PS on its own is just £17.58 a month

It will be VAT and tax deductible as well.

I'm not seeing a problem in the professional market place.

An idiot would not. A sensible person would. Paying £850 (by your beer comparison) for something which previously cost about £160 per upgrade? And not everyone can claim back tax or VAT. There is a place in an asylum waiting for you! Or are you another Adobe employee?

Yan Tan Tethera wrote:
Personally I don't find the monthly fee exorbitant at all. Here in Europe it's the same price as four pints of beer ( or four cups of coffee ) a week. That's for the full suite. PS on its own is just £17.58 a month
It will be VAT and tax deductible as well.
I'm not seeing a problem in the professional market place.

Richard Hollis wrote:
personally, i really like creative cloud. i started with it pretty early so i only get charged 29/mo. at 360/yr it's not a bad deal considering a stand alone copy of ps is over $1000. plus, you can download every application in the suite - since i do some video editing, just having access to premiere alone makes it worthwhile.

You people who think it sounds like an OK deal now need to think ahead a little bit, if you think it's a good idea to give the fox the keys to the hen house. This is just phase one of Adobe's grand plan. Two to three years down the road, Adobe will:
1. start charging you a lot more money
2. and then start charging even more money, to try to make up for lost profits when the vast majority of current users do not sign up
3. have no incentive to make their products better
4. have no incentive to fix bugs
5. have no incentive to make their products compatible with different OS versions. "Sorry, you must 'upgrade' to Vista II."
6. have no backward compatibility capability

Think about it, at some point Adobe could even say: "To make an even better user experience, Adobe has decided to sell our own special computers. Going forward, Adobe software will only work on Adobe computers, which we sell for $4000 for our basic model." "Or you can rent our 'Cloud Computer' for $300/month."

It's like buying a balloon mortgage, except you have no idea what it will cost you in the end.

Gary Melton wrote:
CONGRATULATIONS ADOBE!!!

I just bought PaintShop Pro X5 Ultimate from Amazon - who currently has it on sale for $49.99...regular price $99.99.  I'm going to try it out and see what I think - something I would have never even thought about doing, had Adobe not instigated this new, insidious, nefarious plan to rule the world (woo-oo-oo-ah-ah)!

And BTW, I currently own and use Adobe PS CS5...plus I own and use Adobe InDesign CS5 and Adobe Dreamweaver CS6 (plus Adobe PS Elements 10 and Adobe Premiere Elements 10).

Forgetaboutit if you think I'm EVER going to buy any more Adobe products if they stick with this totally bone-headed strategy!!!

Have CS6 = LR 4.5 + Nik full suite + Portrait Pro (latest)

And the PSP Pro has me tempted. It seems that it will do most of what the above will do. Cannot justify the money for something that I already mostly have. The above will do me fine for at least 2 years if not more.

But, boy do I ever wish I had not spent the money on what I have.

Corel is being smart and trying to get people into there camp.

Adobe has become the standard because most of the pros own it, but many pros will leave the Adobe camp, and I dare say most none pros as well.

You will always get the pretenders who think that using pro equipment makes them a pro. 'If I own a Nikon D4, then I am a real pro and should be hired by Vogue or Nat. Geo.'

John Allan wrote:

Corel isn't destroyed?

They were a serious player early 90s. I haven't even heard their name for a few years until you said it here.

Corel bought/owns PSP. (I have not followed Corel, since I lost a bunch of money on their stock)
Seems a lot of Adobe creatives jumped ship for PSP.
Adobe may be making it a player again.

That is what happens when you hire bean counters who do not consider creatives as assets. Look at Hollywood.

KevinMcGowanPhotography wrote:

Traditionally the professional market has made up a paltry percentage of the photography industry.  If you think that Nikon, Canon and the rest of the manufactures are able to make a profit off of just the professional market you're sadly mistaken. I would imagine the great majority of those using Adobe products are no professionals.

Don't do that!

You beat me to the punch.

Well said.

Canikon make a profit from professionals promoting their product to the consumers. Not from sales to pros. Never have, never will.

Philip of Dallas wrote:

Yan Tan Tethera wrote:
Personally I don't find the monthly fee exorbitant at all. Here in Europe it's the same price as four pints of beer ( or four cups of coffee ) a week. That's for the full suite. PS on its own is just £17.58 a month
It will be VAT and tax deductible as well.
I'm not seeing a problem in the professional market place.

You people who think it sounds like an OK deal now need to think ahead a little bit, if you think it's a good idea to give the fox the keys to the hen house. This is just phase one of Adobe's grand plan. Two to three years down the road, Adobe will:
1. start charging you a lot more money
2. and then start charging even more money, to try to make up for lost profits when the vast majority of current users do not sign up
3. have no incentive to make their products better
4. have no incentive to fix bugs
5. have no incentive to make their products compatible with different OS versions. "Sorry, you must 'upgrade' to Vista II."
6. have no backward compatibility capability

Think about it, at some point Adobe could even say: "To make an even better user experience, Adobe has decided to sell our own special computers. Going forward, Adobe software will only work on Adobe computers, which we sell for $4000 for our basic model." "Or you can rent our 'Cloud Computer' for $300/month."

It's like buying a balloon mortgage, except you have no idea what it will cost you in the end.

We have said this several times.

At what point do we give up trying to educate common sense and a little forward thinking.

I have given up, and am just enjoying the back and forth.
Actually I have given up trying to educate the sheeple.

So perhaps you can keep it up. Somebody has to.

- Phil H - wrote:

Please reserve your commentary to addressing the point, rather than slamming the person making it.

If you had taken the trouble to read my post you would see that I was not saying that.
Or maybe you too think it is sensible to want to pay up to 10 times what you previously did for the same product. I don't.

Gary Melton wrote:
The more I think about this, the more I think some good may come from it!

Maybe finally some other companies will see the opening that Adobe has given them...

Maybe it will motivate them to come out with an application just as good - if not better - than Photoshop...

Maybe this will be the straw that breaks the Adobe MONOPOLY!!!

AMEN!

Model Starr Photography wrote:

AMEN!

It would be great if the monopoly was broken and Adobe had a credible rival to keep their prices down.

Herman Surkis wrote:
And once you are locked in to perpetual payment, just to keep what you have paid for running, what is their motivation to upgrade anything?

Some people cannot see when they are setting themselves up to be screwed, blued, and tattooed.

The only incentive to upgrade will be their prices.

WMcK wrote:

If you had taken the trouble to read my post you would see that I was not saying that.
Or maybe you too think it is sensible to want to pay up to 10 times what you previously did for the same product. I don't.

My comment stems from the text highlighted below, which skirts rather close to slamming the poster than the expressed opinion.

WMcK wrote:
An idiot would not. A sensible person would. Paying £850 (by your beer comparison) for something which previously cost about £160 per upgrade? And not everyone can claim back tax or VAT. There is a place in an asylum waiting for you! Or are you another Adobe employee?

ASYLUM - Photo wrote:
I'll likely be giving some money to some smaller developers to support competition in the market. Acorn and Pixelmator look promising for the future, but are lacking features at the moment.

last time I checked pixelmator was mac-only.  not really an alternative for everyone. and the others are truly cloud-based: you do your editing on an uploaded file.

Keith Allen Phillips wrote:
I read a lot of the replies but not all of them so forgive me if this has been brought up before.

I'm using CS5 right now. As long as I can install it on whatever computer I'm using I'll be able to open the files I'm creating with it right now. But what if I start using their subscription service and a year or two or five down the road I decide I'm tired of paying for it and find an alternative. In the time I've been using the subscription service I've created thousands of new Photoshop, Premiere, etc. files that my old CS5 will not be able to read. How am I supposed to access them?

Has that been addressed, because it's a much bigger concern to me than the price.

Oh Boy! Do I so agree with what you are saying, I have no intention of going the cloud route.  I am currently using the CS6 Suite / NX2 and Nik Software Suite.  I will run it until it just DIES!!!

Besides, I don't know if this have been brought up, but how will the cloud work with the different pluggins that so many of us use?  This is gonna get good, I can see it.  I think I have learned to be content with what I have.

Jake Jacobs wrote:
Besides, I don't know if this have been brought up, but how will the cloud work with the different pluggins that so many of us use?  This is gonna get good, I can see it.  I think I have learned to be content with what I have.

You download Photoshop and install it as you normally would.  After a month (or whenever you are billed next) the software has to authenticate with Adobe or it stops working.  Plugins work like they do now.  The change is in the pricing and how you pay for the software, not the actual software itself.

JAE Photography PA wrote:

You download Photoshop and install it as you normally would.  After a month (or whenever you are billed next) the software has to authenticate with Adobe or it stops working.  Plugins work like they do now.  The change is in the pricing and how you pay for the software, not the actual software itself.

Hmm! So I would guess that would leave one to do something like settng up a automatic debit withdrawel to keep from having a surprise delay, from skipping or missing a payment for whatever the reason.  NAAAH  I don't think this is good.  But thanks for the info just the same.