Monad Studios wrote:
You're probably right about the skill levels.  So I'll put it down to can't-offshore, poor cost control, and the fact that healthcare as an industry just keeps on getting bigger for reasons I don't fully understand.

Demand for healthcare is increasing because people are getting sicker.  Probable causes:

1.) Median age on the rise.

2.) Higher stress due to a prolonged failing economy.

3.) Decreasing food nutrition in processed and factory farmed foods.

4.) Escalating consumption of toxic sugar, corn syrup and gluten products.

Jay Dezelic wrote:

Demand for healthcare is increasing because people are getting sicker.  Probable causes:

1.) Median age on the rise.

2.) Higher stress due to a prolonged failing economy.

3.) Decreasing food nutrition in processed and factory farmed foods.

4.) Escalating consumption of toxic sugar, corn syrup and gluten products.

True, and all this relates to income. It's like you need to get a job in healthcare to earn enough money to buy better food and have less stress and take more time off when needed so you never need healthcare as much as the next person, and odds are on top of all that you get free or cheaper healthcare anyway when you work for it. lol.

Oscar Partida wrote:
More healthcare employment is offered because people are getting older and need care..nurses make descent money

Where I live nurses can make $60K/yr to start. That is probably more than 80% of all jobs out there.

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
It seems like the best paying and most recession proof jobs out there are in healthcare. And it is always growing. I am not sure if that means demand is simply not being met, or there are more poor people who can't afford as easily to take care of their health as better off people (like doctors for example) can, and thus require more medical resources. Why are medical jobs always in such demand? Do most people not have the stomach for it because in general there aren't many nearly as good jobs out there as ones in healthcare. It just seems like even the guy who changes the bed sheet is making a good living. Why does there seem to be far less money in most other industries? Also with that in mind, why do any hospitals anywhere close at all? That's like banks of all things needing a bail out. lol.

University at Buffalo has the best Pharmacy School in the nation, but your current GPA will hurt you big time.

Jay Dezelic wrote:

Demand for healthcare is increasing because people are getting sicker.  Probable causes:

1.) Median age on the rise.

2.) Higher stress due to a prolonged failing economy.

3.) Decreasing food nutrition in processed and factory farmed foods.

4.) Escalating consumption of toxic sugar, corn syrup and gluten products.

Sorry to burst your anti Obama commentary, Jay, but stress levels have been on the increase since offshoring was becoming more the norm and far greater connect to work via technology.. More employers are expecting people to be at the ready via their cells, computers or tablets EVEN if their not on the clock.. 

Seriously, can you not make any comment without it being political??  Business has had far more to do with increase stress than the government..


To the OP, I think the fact that we don't seem to put as much emphasis on preventive care vs evasive care.. When HMO's first came on the scene it seemed like a good idea to take care of the problem before it approached serious levels.. Unfortunately, even they seem to turn to waiting until the cost to take care of the problem was extremely costly.. Makes one wonder if they're just hoping you die before they have to spend anything or too much..

Cherrystone wrote:
There hasn't been enough nurses to go around for decades.....and yet they've been consistently underpaid for ages, at least until a few years ago, I'm not sure what the status is now.

Not enough people going in to begin with, and the nurse burnout rate is real, along with the aging of the boomers. Few nurses stick with hands on nursing for their entire career.

Hell, there are places in this country that have to beg to get a physician in town.

I feel bad for the lab techs. They seem to get paid maybe 50% less than nurses with twice as many years of education and their test results are responsible for 70%+ of patient diagnosis which determines treatment. Part of why I didn't take out a personal loan to continue schooling for it. Also I'm told there are like 100 nurses working in the time that only 1 lab tech is. So I can only imagine the demand isn't so much there either which is a double cluster F***.

Tropical Photography wrote:
To the OP, I think the fact that we don't seem to put as much emphasis on preventive care vs evasive care.. When HMO's first came on the scene it seemed like a good idea to take care of the problem before it approached serious levels.. Unfortunately, even they seem to turn to waiting until the cost to take care of the problem was extremely costly.. Makes one wonder if they're just hoping you die before they have to spend anything or too much..

Yeah it does seem like prevention is not even considered. I saw the movie "Sicko" with Michael Moore (mind you I have to take it with a grain of salt since it is politically biased) it does seem to make even Cuba's healthcare seem much better than ours. I am on medicaid myself and I had to make my general checkup appointment 4 months before the doc becomes available. Good thing though that this doc appears to be physically fit and gives me fitness tips versus my old private practice doc who looked like he might keal over. lol. I'm certainly looking forward to see what "Obamacare" does, and I hope nobody tries to side track it for fear that too many people will like it better once it actually starts. lol.

Tropical Photography wrote:
Sorry to burst your anti Obama commentary, Jay, but stress levels have been on the increase since offshoring was becoming more the norm and far greater connect to work via technology.. More employers are expecting people to be at the ready via their cells, computers or tablets EVEN if their not on the clock.. 

Seriously, can you not make any comment without it being political??  Business has had far more to do with increase stress than the government..

Where do you see anything in my post about Obama?

Adverse health effects from prolonged failing economic conditions is a fact in many countries around the world including the US:

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/50643-i … es-health/

I just so happens that the vast majority of countries with prolonged failing economies also have had a vast reduction in private enterprises and mass increase in government over the last decade.  I don't know if the two issues are connected, but big socialist governments and their mountains of centralized bureaucratic regulations don't seem to be making people much healthier.

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
I feel bad for the lab techs. They seem to get paid maybe 50% less than nurses with twice as many years of education and their test results are responsible for 70%+ of patient diagnosis which determines treatment. Part of why I didn't take out a personal loan to continue schooling for it. Also I'm told there are like 100 nurses working in the time that only 1 lab tech is. So I can only imagine the demand isn't so much there either which is a double cluster F***.

You really don't know much and very short sighted.  Lab Tech, is a good stepping stone, can migrate into many different profession in R&D environment in pharmaceutical, biotech, clinical research, energy.   

Sometime, it is not the money, it is the passion that you have for that profession.

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
I don't know about higher level of skill. I was in school to be a lab tech for a little bit and had a 4.0 until I realized I couldn't get finacial aide and had to quit. My average GPA from previous schooling had always been below 3. I think it is a matter of learning style. And bio jobs are largely about memorizing stuff. It seems to me that whenever I tell people that I hate my low paying job they suggest I get into nursing without asking me if I have an interest or not in healthcare, or even like people. lol. Makes it seem like they aren't too choosey about who they put in charge of a patient's health. lol.

I know that over here it's definitely about a higher level of skill! It's very hard to get into and very costly.
In Sydney to get into med you have to have an undergrad degree and then sit the GAMSAT (a $500 test that goes over 10 hours). Then it's interview rounds, then more rounds and then a select few get in.

Nursing... not so hard to get into The ATAR (high school final score, maybe like GPA) is only around 70, whereas it's in the 90's for medicine

But yes, there are lots of jobs and healthcare will forever be needed so I'm feeling very happy with my degree

Chuckarelei wrote:
American society needs to stop worshiping doctors and lawyers.

Lawyers, maybe but I think doctors should get way more praise!

Especially compared to how people treat movie stars and famous people

Erin Holmes wrote:
Why are there always healthcare jobs? Um, pretty sure people will never enjoy feeling sick.

But they do enjoy doing the things that make them sick like excessive consumption of alcohol, cigarettes, meat from unhealthy animals, processed junk foods with lots of sugar & gluten, etc.  .. people also enjoy sedentary activities like video games, tv and hanging out all day on social media sites like MM.

As long as there are people who are born with an insufficient capacity to process logic, there will be an abundant need for healthcare jobs.

Chuckarelei wrote:
American society needs to stop worshiping doctors and lawyers.

Exactly. Worship waiters and waitress who have big dreams, but don't put it beneath themselves to bring you pancakes. Also science nerds. Those people are the sh**.

Connor Photography wrote:

You really don't know much and very short sighted.  Lab Tech, is a good stepping stone, can migrate into many different profession in R&D environment in pharmaceutical, biotech, clinical research, energy.   

Sometime, it is not the money, it is the passion that you have for that profession.

My only interest in being a lab tech was a step up in money as well as helping patience. I don't care about making new drugs or new fuels. I prefer treating people with good foods and activities, not drugs.

Jay Dezelic wrote:

But they do enjoy doing the things that make them sick like excessive consumption of alcohol, cigarettes, meat from unhealthy animals, processed junk foods with lots of sugar & gluten, etc.  .. people also enjoy sedentary activities like video games, tv and hanging out all day on social media sites like MM.

As long as there are people who are born with an insufficient capacity to process logic, there will be an abundant need for healthcare jobs.

Exactly. Some of my fashion/photography friends think I'm insane for continuing a degree in healthcare and should concentrate on photography. They're the crazy ones!

Gulag wrote:
The other day I was a volunteer photographer documenting my teenage kid's swim team competition. During the breaks, I was asking the same question to every kid who I encountered, "what is your dream and what do you want to be when you grow up?" if answer is "I don't' know." Then, I would ask "do your parents have a dream for you? what do they want you to be?".  Most kids don't have any dreams or don't know what they want to be, one or two say professional football. Interestingly, their moms and dads want them to become either medical doctors or lawyers even if their parents are not in medical profession at all, which shocks me.

I think that is mostly for money reasons to afford them a good retirement thanks to their wealthy kid. lol. That probably doesn't mean that if those kids did have a passion that their parents would oppose to insisting that they be a doctor.

misszara wrote:

I know that over here it's definitely about a higher level of skill! It's very hard to get into and very costly.
In Sydney to get into med you have to have an undergrad degree and then sit the GAMSAT (a $500 test that goes over 10 hours). Then it's interview rounds, then more rounds and then a select few get in.

Nursing... not so hard to get into The ATAR (high school final score, maybe like GPA) is only around 70, whereas it's in the 90's for medicine

But yes, there are lots of jobs and healthcare will forever be needed so I'm feeling very happy with my degree

Oh, what is your degree?

Jay Dezelic wrote:

But they do enjoy doing the things that make them sick like excessive consumption of alcohol, cigarettes, meat from unhealthy animals, processed junk foods with lots of sugar & gluten, etc.  .. people also enjoy sedentary activities like video games, tv and hanging out all day on social media sites like MM.

As long as there are people who are born with an insufficient capacity to process logic, there will be an abundant need for healthcare jobs.

It's a shame we legally allow so many makers of our food get away with such broadly termed labeling that makes their food sound healthy and 100% natural even if that is the farthest thing from the truth.

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
I don't know about higher level of skill. I was in school to be a lab tech for a little bit and had a 4.0 until I realized I couldn't get finacial aide and had to quit. My average GPA from previous schooling had always been below 3. I think it is a matter of learning style. And bio jobs are largely about memorizing stuff. It seems to me that whenever I tell people that I hate my low paying job they suggest I get into nursing without asking me if I have an interest or not in healthcare, or even like people. lol. Makes it seem like they aren't too choosey about who they put in charge of a patient's health. lol.

Nursing pays shit and you deal with a lottttt of shit ESP if you work inpatient units or emergency dept.  not many nurses are paid great unless they're either very high up the chain, very specialized (and therefore have more advanced degree than most RNs), or become NP or work on the academic side. 

Go pull a typical ER/ICU/step down/telemetry/ psych schedule for one month and tell me how great it is and how much time or energy you have to spend the money you do make....

Jay Dezelic wrote:

Demand for healthcare is increasing because people are getting sicker.  Probable causes:

1.) Median age on the rise.

2.) Higher stress due to a prolonged failing economy.

3.) Decreasing food nutrition in processed and factory farmed foods.

4.) Escalating consumption of toxic sugar, corn syrup and gluten products.

A lot of it is a combo of the fact that people are living longer and the fact that in those long lives many have chronic diseases which eat of a lot of the cost, time, and labor in the healthcare system.  And since our healthcare system blows, many are noncompliant in dealing with their chronic conditions.

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:

True, and all this relates to income. It's like you need to get a job in healthcare to earn enough money to buy better food and have less stress and take more time off when needed so you never need healthcare as much as the next person, and odds are on top of all that you get free or cheaper healthcare anyway when you work for it. lol.

Less stress?  Time off?   Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

Big A-Larger Than Life wrote:

Less stress?  Time off?   Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

Stress I doubt but I know a gas passer here that has 16 weeks off a year.. Granted, he's running pretty much full on from the week after Thanksgiving until about Easter..

Big A-Larger Than Life wrote:

Nursing pays shit and you deal with a lottttt of shit ESP if you work inpatient units or emergency dept.  not many nurses are paid great unless they're either very high up the chain, very specialized (and therefore have more advanced degree than most RNs), or become NP or work on the academic side. 

Go pull a typical ER/ICU/step down/telemetry/ psych schedule for one month and tell me how great it is and how much time or energy you have to spend the money you do make....

How much nurses get paid depends on where they are in the country and I never said it was a fun job. Although I wouldn't mind doing half of it personally for half what it pays in my area. I could finally move above the poverty level. lol.

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
It seems like the best paying and most recession proof jobs out there are in healthcare. ...

Why are medical jobs always in such demand? Do most people not have the stomach for it because in general there aren't many nearly as good jobs out there as ones in healthcare. It just seems like even the guy who changes the bed sheet is making a good living. Why does there seem to be far less money in most other industries? Also with that in mind, why do any hospitals anywhere close at all? That's like banks of all things needing a bail out. lol.

Hi,
I work in health care and while it may look like a bed of roses it is hard, hard work and a sacrifice of your freetime and social life. It is a sacrifice of lunch breaks, and of time to 'just step out' of your office. When you are working with patients that have need you cannot walk away. Also, while it may seem recession proof we are affected by it. Patients of the hospitals that do close down will go to the next, and overstress it, the cutbacks will still cut back employees and staff so while we have more patients we have less staff...then we also get employees who come to health care thinking that it is a good bet for a steady job and while they may have the appropriate degree they hate the job...

Okay I don't know if I am going anywhere with this.

Jen-(been working in hospitals and health care over 20 years.)

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
I feel bad for the lab techs. They seem to get paid maybe 50% less than nurses with twice as many years of education and their test results are responsible for 70%+ of patient diagnosis which determines treatment. Part of why I didn't take out a personal loan to continue schooling for it. Also I'm told there are like 100 nurses working in the time that only 1 lab tech is. So I can only imagine the demand isn't so much there either which is a double cluster F***.

Are you hating on nurses?

I am a former lab tech and a current nurse and I cannot believe how EASY my lab tech job was compared to being a nurse. There is no comparison.

Different jobs. I think people don't really know what nurses do sometimes.

It took me 15+ years to get the degree and I worked as a tech and other minimum entry certificate positions while working towards that degree. They are totally different skill sets and totally different jobs. Maybe it was the nurse who recommended the doctor order some tests for that patient because it may be likely that there was something going on based on her observation and knowledge and interpretation of the patient's presentation.

Big A-Larger Than Life wrote:

Nursing pays shit and you deal with a lottttt of shit ESP if you work inpatient units or emergency dept.  not many nurses are paid great unless they're either very high up the chain, very specialized (and therefore have more advanced degree than most RNs), or become NP or work on the academic side. 

Go pull a typical ER/ICU/step down/telemetry/ psych schedule for one month and tell me how great it is and how much time or energy you have to spend the money you do make....

+Gazillion

MyrnaByrna Jen B wrote:
Hi,
I work in health care and while it may look like a bed of roses it is hard, hard work and a sacrifice of your freetime and social life. It is a sacrifice of lunch breaks, and of time to 'just step out' of your office. When you are working with patients that have need you cannot walk away. Also, while it may seem recession proof we are affected by it. Patients of the hospitals that do close down will go to the next, and overstress it, the cutbacks will still cut back employees and staff so while we have more patients we have less staff...then we also get employees who come to health care thinking that it is a good bet for a steady job and while they may have the appropriate degree they hate the job...

Okay I don't know if I am going anywhere with this.

Jen-(been working in hospitals and health care over 20 years.)

I can validate that as a son of an emergency room nurse of 20+ years. I would never wish my daughter to become an ER nurse. As a kid I volunteered in the same ER as my mother and walked away with a boat-load of respect for the woman. An ER nurse is probably the extreme when discussing nursing but still, the experience was enough for me to know I didn't want to be in the medical field. I didn't want to witness anymore broken legs, car crash victims, volleyball-sized hernias, doctors pulling moths out of kids ears, spurting blood vessels, Psych-ward crazies, or anything else that prevented me from finishing my lunch.

The jobs might pay (overtime) well but I would compare the stress level with that of a Police Officer or combat vet. Many of them after years of wear down become alcoholics, smoke heavily or even worse commit suicide (may Mom lost 2 co-workers just last year, one to self-inflected death the other from a heart attack in her sleep). The hours they work are murderous (10-12 hr shifts 4 days straight) as well. Heck, my mom missed most of my teenaged years because she was either working or sleeping.

Fact is most of the jobs nursing and medical students are actually going to get will be in hospice care. You couldn't pay me enough money to swipe someone else's ass or clean up their vomit daily.

Much respect.