Forums > General Industry > Have u ever known about violence against models?

Model

Dekilah

Posts: 5236

Dearborn, Michigan, US

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
I have heard about a local bondage photographer who was a little too rough with a model.

I have heard that too. If it is the same guy I have heard of, he also has a lot of really good references from a lot of local models I know. I have met him multiple times and he seems like a nice guy. I think in his case some of the models might either be a little new to real bondage or they might be like me and just not enjoy the more strenuous styles.

Jun 24 13 08:30 am Link

Photographer

salvatori.

Posts: 4288

Amundsen-Scott - permanent station of the US, Unclaimed Sector, Antarctica

If a person wants to, they can prove anything...

Jun 24 13 08:36 am Link

Photographer

Star

Posts: 17966

Los Angeles, California, US

Capitol City Boudoir wrote:
I did a web search and only found one occurrence back in 2004 where a "porn model" was killed by a photographer over a payment dispute.

I also found one where a photographer was killed by a model over artistic differences.

I found no case where someone pretended to be a photographer and lured a model to her death.


It doesn't make a bit of difference to me.  We have a waiting room in our studio where escorts can sit and keep themselves occupied for the 2-3 hours that a shoot takes.

Usually I stay away from these threads, that should be locked right away, but my search engine must be better than yours

Hell several of the articles mention MM as being the place the "photographer" found his victims
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/201 … ring-model

Look, maybe you live in La-La land where everything is fine, but if you talk to your models, really talk, you will find almost every single one has a story of a photographer behaving in a way that made them at the very least very uncomfortable and at the most filing a police report. Modeling is more dangerous then working in a bank, cause at the bank you either know all your co workers or have bullet proof glass and an armed security guard between you and the strangers. In fact many places that have people interacting with the public as a whole have security on site (banks, clothing stores, malls, grocery stores).

Stop trying to find a way around the escort argument for a forum thread and book the models you want to work with and stop worrying about how everyone else does business.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree … use-models

"Sexual abuse of models is fashion's dirty secret

Instead of getting worked up over a little tummy fat the industry should tackle the issue of rape"

"It is impossible to say how common assaults on models by people in the business are because so few are reported, partly for the usual reason assaults often go unreported (a sense of shame on the woman's part), but also because of some factors specific to the fashion industry: models are often very young; they fear they won't work again if they "cause a fuss". Model Cohen describes it as "a reality in the industry"."


MY search engine brought up (all of these from the first page of searches)

http://missionviejo.patch.com/groups/po … 4c1654f848

http://www.wthr.com/story/19527718/phot … els-safety

this search was very fruitful
https://www.google.com/search?q=amateur … 31&bih=897

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ … odels.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … model.html

http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/ne … on_models/

http://www.shedoesthecity.com/model-cha … al-assault

Jun 24 13 08:55 am Link

Photographer

Anthony J Deffina

Posts: 80

Shingle Springs, California, US

GPS Studio Services wrote:
Ya know, let's not pretend that it has never happened.  Of course it has happened.  I know of a half-dozen cases, which if pressed, I can verify for the group.  But what is the point? 

This site has over 1/2 million models on it and there have been a half dozen verified cases of violence (or at least violence that has made the news).  It is a miniscule number.  I think you are more likely to be raped walking down the street.  MM is not anonymous so it takes a foolish criminal to set up a shoot and then kill you.

There have been other things which are non-violent.  There was the Playboy photographer that was arrested in AZ for shooting under aged nudes at CJ's.  We have the San Diego photographer that was doing essentially the same thing.

I don't see the purpose of dissecting all of this.   There are bad eggs in everything.  As a model, I would worry more about people acting inappropriately than violence.  Violence is really quite rare.

Assuming the stats are close to accurate, this means that the chances of a model on this site being beaten, raped or killed by a photographer here is 0.000012%.

But let's say that the number is higher due to not being reported. How about 100. Then the odds would be 0.0002%.

What if you woke up this morning and the headlines read, "The total number of MM models that have met violence at the hands of MM photographers has now reached 500!"?

Well that would put the odds at 0.01%.

I agree that the odds of a model having to deal with a photographer acting inappropriately are far higher and of greater concern.

Jun 24 13 08:56 am Link

Photographer

Star

Posts: 17966

Los Angeles, California, US

GPS Studio Services wrote:
The chances that you will run into someone acting inappropriately (such as a male model who has come here to date rather than pose), is very high.  The chances of running into inappropriate conduct at a bar or club is high as well.  Like anything, models have to be mature enough to say "no" and just walk away.

I agree, it is the exaggeration and fear mongering that bothers me the most.

Clubs have bouncers. Almost any equivalent scenario given is going to be BS because those scenarios are public places, many times with security. Also, I know very few girls who go to clubs alone, they always seem to go in packs.

Security cameras also exist. I know people like to pretend they don't, but they do.

Almost every shoot has times when the photographer and model are alone, so there is no equivalency in the arguments I see presented.

Just accept that it happens. Stop trying to pretend it doesn't. Ask some of your model friends to be truthful about their "skeevy" experiences.

Jun 24 13 09:01 am Link

Photographer

Photographe

Posts: 2351

Bristol, England, United Kingdom

Happens everywhere, but it does happen.

A number of cases in the UK were fairly high profile, because either a model was disfigured or murdered in an attack, or because their modelling was relevant to the attack. Precisely none of these models were attacked in the workplace and I think none of them by photographers.

Models getting themselves worked up about whether escort boyfriends are useful not should realize, that 90% of murders are committed by people's friends, family or partners. A common thread in the UK model murders and attacks is the ex-boyfriend or jilted boyfriend or jealous friend/associate/acquaintance.

Often in these cases, the media twist the facts. In fact most victims were not modelling, but had modelled in the past or wanted to be models and simply had done some modelling. It is just simply when a young girl is attacked, the media can sensationalize by focusing on the fact that they had done some modelling.

Jun 24 13 11:13 am Link

Model

JoJo

Posts: 26560

Clearwater, Florida, US

Star wrote:
Clubs have bouncers. Almost any equivalent scenario given is going to be BS because those scenarios are public places, many times with security. Also, I know very few girls who go to clubs alone, they always seem to go in packs.

Security cameras also exist. I know people like to pretend they don't, but they do.

Almost every shoot has times when the photographer and model are alone, so there is no equivalency in the arguments I see presented.

Just accept that it happens. Stop trying to pretend it doesn't. Ask some of your model friends to be truthful about their "skeevy" experiences.

Good gawd, I’m actually going to agree with Star on this one. wink

Ask virtually any model that has done more than 20 shoots. They will have a story or two of someone with “happy hands”, a little too touchie-feelie, being groped, being propositioned, being harassed/stalked, being sexually assaulted, and worse.

We’re not talking about young women in bars, dentist’s offices, public libraries or even judge’s chambers; we’re talking about models (often nude or scantily clad) and photographers, alone.

If you want to manipulate statistics you will likely find that traveling in the NASA space shuttle is safer (based on deaths per miles traveled) than walking down the street.
Manipulate some more stats and you will discover that standing on the surface of the moon is safer than going to the drive-through of your local McDonald's.

Unwanted sexual advances do happen between a model and photographer. They happen much more often than you would expect. The vast majority are never reported so they never show up on a police blotter much less on the front page of some news paper or as the lead story on the 11 o’clock news.

Jun 24 13 12:45 pm Link

Photographer

American Glamour

Posts: 38813

Detroit, Michigan, US

Star wrote:
Clubs have bouncers. Almost any equivalent scenario given is going to be BS because those scenarios are public places, many times with security. Also, I know very few girls who go to clubs alone, they always seem to go in packs.

Security cameras also exist. I know people like to pretend they don't, but they do.

Almost every shoot has times when the photographer and model are alone, so there is no equivalency in the arguments I see presented.

Just accept that it happens. Stop trying to pretend it doesn't. Ask some of your model friends to be truthful about their "skeevy" experiences.

JoJo wrote:
Good gawd, I’m actually going to agree with Star on this one. wink

Ask virtually any model that has done more than 20 shoots. They will have a story or two of someone with “happy hands”, a little too touchie-feelie, being groped, being propositioned, being harassed/stalked, being sexually assaulted, and worse.

We’re not talking about young women in bars, dentist’s offices, public libraries or even judge’s chambers; we’re talking about models (often nude or scantily clad) and photographers, alone.

If you want to manipulate statistics you will likely find that traveling in the NASA space shuttle is safer (based on deaths per miles traveled) than walking down the street.
Manipulate some more stats and you will discover that standing on the surface of the moon is safer than going to the drive-through of your local McDonald's.

Unwanted sexual advances do happen between a model and photographer. They happen much more often than you would expect. The vast majority are never reported so they never show up on a police blotter much less on the front page of some news paper or as the lead story on the 11 o’clock news.

Except you both are talking about the wrong subject.  The original topic was "violence."  My reply was to those people where were constantly claiming that there was none that was substantiated. This conversation has migrated to "skeevy" and that is what you both are commenting on.

I have always said that there is a high chance of encountering "skeevy" conduct, using your terminology.  If we are going to argue, let's argue about the same thing.  Let's also be clear as to what I have said and what I have always said.

Me wrote:
The chances of being raped or killed on a photo shoot are fairly small.  The chances of encountering inappropriate behavior is high.

I define inappropriate behavior in many ways.  That can be unwanted advances.  That can be photographers being too "touchy feely."  They adjust clothes too much, etc.  That can be a photographer asking to trade money for sex.  That can be photographers or male models trying to use the site as a dating service.  There are a lot of things that you would consider "skeevy" and I would totally agree.  Those things are not going to result in physical violence, rape or murder.  That is what I responded to so let's keep that in context.  I was getting tired of people saying that actual violence never happens.  I also think there is too much fear mongering.  There really aren't many murders or rapes either.

The point though is if you want to talk about "skeevy" then let's talk about skeevy.  These are two different subjects and let's not take my post out of context.  So I will repeat your quote:

JoJo wrote:
Unwanted sexual advances do happen between a model and photographer. They happen much more often than you would expect. The vast majority are never reported so they never show up on a police blotter much less on the front page of some news paper or as the lead story on the 11 o’clock news.

This thread isn't about unwanted sexual advances, it is about violence.  They are totally different things.  While I do not approve of inappropriate conduct, models do have to be willing to say "no" and walk away.  All too often I read posts from models where they talk about a photographer doing things they shouldn't yet they finish the shoot.  Make no mistake, the photographer is wrong, but the models have to learn to say "no" and leave.  That in no way is an excuse for the photographer's bad behavior.  It does mean that once it occurs, the model still has to learn to walk out.

Jun 24 13 01:51 pm Link

Photographer

Chicchowmein

Posts: 14585

Palm Beach, Florida, US

JoJo wrote:

Good gawd, I’m actually going to agree with Star on this one. wink

Ask virtually any model that has done more than 20 shoots. They will have a story or two of someone with “happy hands”, a little too touchie-feelie, being groped, being propositioned, being harassed/stalked, being sexually assaulted, and worse.

We’re not talking about young women in bars, dentist’s offices, public libraries or even judge’s chambers; we’re talking about models (often nude or scantily clad) and photographers, alone.

If you want to manipulate statistics you will likely find that traveling in the NASA space shuttle is safer (based on deaths per miles traveled) than walking down the street.
Manipulate some more stats and you will discover that standing on the surface of the moon is safer than going to the drive-through of your local McDonald's.

Unwanted sexual advances do happen between a model and photographer. They happen much more often than you would expect. The vast majority are never reported so they never show up on a police blotter much less on the front page of some news paper or as the lead story on the 11 o’clock news.

Maybe you are more likely to be the victim of sexual inappropriateness but I am sorry I don't think working in a bank is safer than modeling

Unwanted sexual advances happen everywhere if you are a woman -- my worst cases happened in the work place once with a boss when I was really young and another time with a customer when I was also pretty young and not very assertive or street smart.

But I had more issues dating and clubbing than I ever did modeling but I never did bondage or nude modeling.

But saying you are likely to get raped or murdered modeling -- I don't think it is that " common."

Unwanted sexual advances -- sure.  I think they have been happening since the beginning of time. I am not condoning it, but sometimes a good look at the kind of work people shoot and looking at the way they view women would be a start.

Jun 24 13 01:53 pm Link

Photographer

Chicchowmein

Posts: 14585

Palm Beach, Florida, US

Rollo David Snook wrote:
Happens everywhere, but it does happen.

A number of cases in the UK were fairly high profile, because either a model was disfigured or murdered in an attack, or because their modelling was relevant to the attack. Precisely none of these models were attacked in the workplace and I think none of them by photographers.

Models getting themselves worked up about whether escort boyfriends are useful not should realize, that 90% of murders are committed by people's friends, family or partners. A common thread in the UK model murders and attacks is the ex-boyfriend or jilted boyfriend or jealous friend/associate/acquaintance.

Often in these cases, the media twist the facts. In fact most victims were not modelling, but had modelled in the past or wanted to be models and simply had done some modelling. It is just simply when a young girl is attacked, the media can sensationalize by focusing on the fact that they had done some modelling.

Thank you

or by photographers that are not really photographers.

Jun 24 13 01:54 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45291

San Juan Bautista, California, US

Star wrote:
Security cameras also exist. I know people like to pretend they don't, but they do.

Almost every shoot has times when the photographer and model are alone, so there is no equivalency in the arguments I see presented.

Just accept that it happens. Stop trying to pretend it doesn't. Ask some of your model friends to be truthful about their "skeevy" experiences.

About bouncers.  My best friend is a bouncer at a casino.  She has seen it all!  Women are by far more ruthless and violent when their man is being taken down.  My friend is a great bouncer, and she might be small built, but no one is better at taking down a drunk, obnoxious a-hole than my female friend who is the favorite security officer at that casino.     

I was once roommates with a woman, very petite I might add, who took down a big biker guy to the floor and beat him senseless until he was in a coma.  She went to jail of course.  Why did she kick his ass?  Because "he looked at me funny!"   That same roommate also threaten to kill me and make it look like a suicide like the former roommate who was found hanging in a tree from an "apparent suicide!"  When she started calling me the former (and dead) roommates name, I moved out of there in the middle of the night to save my life!

I was kidnapped by two women who I met at a club where my band was playing.  Women are not the "weaker" sex in my opinion.  Women are as strong as men, and deserve equal pay and credit for when they do a good job.   So no one is denying that some photographers have inflicted violence on models.  What we are saying is the percentages of attacks done on women is not much different than the percentage of attacks done by doctors, or any other occupation where two people are in a situation of being one on one.

Jun 24 13 02:20 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45291

San Juan Bautista, California, US

JoJo wrote:
Ask virtually any model that has done more than 20 shoots. They will have a story or two of someone with “happy hands”, a little too touchie-feelie, being groped, being propositioned, being harassed/stalked, being sexually assaulted, and worse.

We’re not talking about young women in bars, dentist’s offices, public libraries or even judge’s chambers; we’re talking about models (often nude or scantily clad) and photographers, alone.

If you want to manipulate statistics you will likely find that traveling in the NASA space shuttle is safer (based on deaths per miles traveled) than walking down the street.
Manipulate some more stats and you will discover that standing on the surface of the moon is safer than going to the drive-through of your local McDonald's.

Unwanted sexual advances do happen between a model and photographer. They happen much more often than you would expect. The vast majority are never reported so they never show up on a police blotter much less on the front page of some news paper or as the lead story on the 11 o’clock news.

You go from "happy hands' to "deaths" rather quickly.  Which are we talking about here?   We all know that more models and photographers on Modelmayhem have died in car wrecks than by any other incident ... can we agree on that one?

From what I have learned in the media, you are far more likely to be sexually assaulted in the military than any other occupation ... at least it seems that way.  Being a woman in the military is dangerous!  Should women stop joining the military?

Jun 24 13 02:24 pm Link

Photographer

Star

Posts: 17966

Los Angeles, California, US

Patrick Walberg wrote:

You go from "happy hands' to "deaths" rather quickly.  Which are we talking about here?   We all know that more models and photographers on Modelmayhem have died in car wrecks than by any other incident ... can we agree on that one?

From what I have learned in the media, you are far more likely to be sexually assaulted in the military than any other occupation ... at least it seems that way.  Being a woman in the military is dangerous!  Should women stop joining the military?

the sky is blue. Should kangaroos be better regulated as pets because the sky is blue?

Jun 24 13 03:04 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45291

San Juan Bautista, California, US

Star wrote:
the sky is blue. Should kangaroos be better regulated as pets because the sky is blue?

That has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of this thread, which is about violence against women.  The FACT that women are sexually and violently assaulted while serving in the military DOES HAVE relevance to this subject of women being sexually and violently assaulted by photographers.  It happens.  Now what?

I'll go a step further;  Since some women have been sexually assaulted by doctors, should women have an "escort" at all times when visiting their doctor?   I believe that in some circumstances depending on the examination, a nurse being present maybe a good idea.  A BETTER IDEA would be to prosecute the offending doctors.

Since some women have been sexually assaulted by photographers, perhaps female models should have an "escort" on certain photo shoots?  Once again ... A BETTER IDEA would be to prosecute the offending photographers in the court of law.  That is what we have a criminal justice system for, right? 

Prosecuting anyone before a crime has been committed does not make sense to me.  That's the way the Internet works though ... through spreading fear of each other before any reason has been found. 

Again, I have no problems with common sense, intuition, invited guests, checking references, and any or all other forms of communication that help build trust between worthy people. Fear mongering or the spread of misinformation / exaggerated is not the way to help others.

Jun 24 13 03:20 pm Link

Photographer

Star

Posts: 17966

Los Angeles, California, US

Patrick Walberg wrote:
That has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of this thread, which is about violence against women.  The FACT that women are sexually and violently assaulted while serving in the military DOES HAVE relevance to this subject of women being sexually and violently assaulted by photographers.  It happens.  Now what?

I'll go a step further;  Since some women have been sexually assaulted by doctors, should women have an "llama herder" at all times when visiting their doctor?   I believe that in some circumstances depending on the examination, a nurse being present maybe a good idea.  A BETTER IDEA would be to prosecute the offending doctors.

Since some women have been sexually assaulted by photographers, perhaps female models should have an "llama herder" on certain photo shoots?  Once again ... A BETTER IDEA would be to prosecute the offending photographers in the court of law.  That is what we have a criminal justice system for, right? 

Prosecuting anyone before a crime has been committed does not make sense to me.  That's the way the Internet works though ... through spreading fear of each other before any reason has been found. 

Again, I have no problems with common sense, intuition, invited guests, checking references, and any or all other forms of communication that help build trust between worthy people. Fear mongering or the spread of misinformation / exaggerated is not the way to help others.

I could say you are an idiot, but i won't. I am saying that the statements you made made as much sense put together as what i said. You made, and make, two unrelated statements and then act like one leads to the other. That was the point of my posting, which i would hope any reasonably intelligent person would understand.

I am having trouble seeing the intelligence in your posts.

Jun 24 13 03:41 pm Link

Photographer

I M N Photography

Posts: 2350

Boston, Massachusetts, US

Ecklipse wrote:
My question is due to the never ending argue about escorts.... "I´m not shooting without my escort", "If you bring an escort there´s no shooting"

I do understand model´s concern about going to a shooting and find out the photographer is actually an sick pervert whose only purpose is to rape her and drop the corpse into a ditch... ok, that was terrible, but you get the point.

So my question is: have you even known about an actual attack against a model or a situation where the model´s life was actually in danger in a shooting due to a violent photographer?

I´m not taking any side in the old discussion about escorts, I do allow escorts in my shootings when the model request me that (I understand them because I shoot bondage and I know not all models are comfortable with that) but I would like to know if have you ever known about a situation that really justify the presence of an escort to save a model from a violent photographer


But anyway, I gotta add, even when I let models bringing escorts when the ask me to, it´s annoying to have a random guy telling you "you should move this light here" or "why don´t you shoot like this"....  I´m like "just shut up already man and let me work, I know how to do it!"

The whole escort issue is such an open ended argument.

On the one hand, there is this myth about photography and perversion, which is continuously perpetuated by the media (especially the Social kind). It is not the media's fault. Interesting and rare topics like perversion, or rape attract much more attention than the countless photography sessions that go on everyday without a problem.

On the other hand, there is the issue with people bringing friends to photography studios, or other types of sessions where gear is left unattended, and crimes of opportunity takes place.

I don't think the solution is a black and white answer in this debate. It's all a bunch of gray. You just have to go with your gut feeling. Hopefully that feeling is based on a bit of experience, and not some random, fact-less, hearsay from someone that knows someone, who doesn't like someone else.

edit: I will say, from a photographer's perspective, if I don't have any information about the friend or "escort", then this person better be helping out during the shoot, otherwise they can go on a coffee run.

Jun 24 13 04:02 pm Link

Photographer

Danny Bs Photos

Posts: 11

Lemesos, Government controlled area, Cyprus

I think a few of you guys need to either grow up or arrange to meet in a boxing ring. Honestly, between people starting threads purely to cause arguments and others falling out between themselves, it's like a bunch of school children arguing in a playground!

Of course here is going to have been some level of violence against models, but I would suggest that it is more likely to be by people who are here for that than by photographers who are here for the right reasons. If you feel uncomfortable during a shoot then leave. If you don't feel comfortable when you're arranging it, then don't go. The world is a dangerous place, but you can either hide away, or accept he dangers and try to mitigate them where you can.

Jun 24 13 04:22 pm Link

Photographer

glumpy

Posts: 516

Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

This really is a Dumb, Pointless thread .

I am sure Photographers somewhere, sometime, have killed a model.
I'm also sure that Doctors have murdered patients, Priests have killed parishioners, Grandmothers have killed Grandkids, Bus drivers have killed women on their way to work or home,  Parents have killed children, Neighbours have killed neighbours, Employees have killed employers, women have killed husbands, models have killed photographers and the inadvertent death toll Models have inflicted on their grandmothers is well and widely known.

To try and say that a photographer never killed a model would seem stupid because you cold put almost any 2 categories of people together and find one at some time had killed the other.

People are people first and foremost and people kill people.
So what?
You going to lock yourself in your house ( might need a fortified bunker) and never go out so you are safe?
Yeah, that would make life worth living.

Like I say, If Models think they need someone with them to prevent me committing a crime against them, They should stay the hell away from me and not even think about working with me even if they bring an army.

I find escorts beyond all  else to be an insult to my character
The ones I have had bring escorts in effect have decided that I pose a potential danger to them but they have NEVER asked for names of people they can see on my pics and message them through their own folios as to what I was like to work with. 

Yep, If you think you need and escort to protect you from me, best you stay to hell away in the first place.

Jun 24 13 04:30 pm Link

Photographer

ontherocks

Posts: 23575

Salem, Oregon, US

i think some newbies might not have the courage to leave. those are the ones that maybe are most vulnerable and start threads about "this happened and then that happened and then it got really bad" so i think if you are setting about to be a model make sure you have the ability to leave even if the photographer gets upset or you lose your money or don't get images or whatever. thing about the long-term and let that shoot go already. it's ok to leave if things get weird and hopefully the photographer will let you go.

Danny Bs Photos wrote:
If you feel uncomfortable during a shoot then leave. If you don't feel comfortable when you're arranging it, then don't go.

Jun 24 13 04:37 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45291

San Juan Bautista, California, US

Star wrote:
I could say you are an idiot, but i won't. I am saying that the statements you made made as much sense put together as what i said. You made, and make, two unrelated statements and then act like one leads to the other. That was the point of my posting, which i would hope any reasonably intelligent person would understand.

I am having trouble seeing the intelligence in your posts.

I'll make it simple for you then.  The Original Post asked; "Have u ever known about violence against models?"   My answer to that question directly is that I have never personally known of violence against models.  Have I ever heard of any incidence of violence against models?  Of course.  Of the few incidences that I have heard about through third parties, I could not verify that it actually occurred the way they said it did.  Nor do I believe that the number of incidents is dramatically more or less then most typical occupations where sexual or violent behavior can occur.

I'm sorry that you are not able to "see" the intelligence in what I wrote.

Jun 24 13 04:38 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45291

San Juan Bautista, California, US

Danny Bs Photos wrote:
If you feel uncomfortable during a shoot then leave. If you don't feel comfortable when you're arranging it, then don't go.

This should be the mantra of new models!  Repeat frequently, and mean it!

Jun 24 13 04:46 pm Link

Photographer

Dan Howell

Posts: 3579

Kerhonkson, New York, US

Patrick Walberg wrote:
I'll make it simple for you then.  The Original Post asked; "Have u ever known about violence against models?"   My answer to that question directly is that I have never personally known of violence against models.

You should have ended your participation in this thread there. The frequency and degree that you have participated in this thread, and as I notice other similar threads, give the impression that you have a vested interest in suppressing information and reporting of events like this. Why is that?

Have you considered that models might not want to share those details with you? They certainly share information with one another and sometimes photographers too.

Have I heard specific details from an involved party to violence against a model? Yes. More than once.

Am I going to share confidential details here? No. I certainly respect the confidences I have been given.

Have there been arrests and prosecutions for the specific questions here? Yes, it is quite obvious there have been.

Why do you keep attempting to discredit these facts?

Wait...please don't answer. Just go away.

Jun 24 13 05:09 pm Link

Photographer

BeautybyGod

Posts: 3078

Los Angeles, California, US

GER Photography wrote:
Yes, a few years ago here in California some asswad "photographer" took a girl into the desert and killed her. So, yes it does happen. Do a google search for model killed or model found dead you'll be surprised How many stories show up.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
That was way before the Internet.

no it wasn't. there were plenty of us on the internet at the time.


GER Photography wrote:
To pretend that it does not happen is simply like sticking ones head in the sand.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Really????

Provide some more examples please?

here's some verification for you.... and none of these include a couple of models i know personally that were assaulted.

since a couple of you asked... some links i found when some idiot on here claimed models were more likely to be struck by lightning than be harmed on a photoshoot. yeah right.

some of these links include illegal, but non-violent, acts by photographers.


Two men are accused of luring aspiring models and actresses to South Florida with promises of stardom, then drugging, sexually assaulting and filming them to fuel a pornography business
http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/MI54782/
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/08/17/2 … gging.html

"About 50 women reported similar crimes by Flanders and Callum, prosecutors told the judge"
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/ … 6108.story
http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/ … s_rape.php


http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/ … d=32210982
The 28-year-old killer lured her to his flat by telling her he was looking for girls to model jewellery.


"Photographer to the stars jailed for sex assaults"
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/photogra … 69509.html


"The man, she said, was holding what appeared to be a professional quality camera, and he told her that he was taking photographs of her to post on the Internet. "
http://www.florida-criminal-attorney-bl … rings.html


convicted of sexually assaulting 9 aspiring actresses
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-06-10/ … rison-term


Richard Dow - pleaded guilty late Tuesday afternoon to sexually assaulting 11 women and assaulting one woman. Prosecutors stayed an additional 14 charges.
http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/08/ex-c … nst-models
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/05/08/ex … nst-models
Richard Dow - A former Winnipeg police officer is headed to jail for sexually assaulting 11 young women whom he persuaded to model for his off-duty photography business.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breaki … 29906.html


Karim Remtulla - It's alleged that a man, who portrayed himself as an amateur photographer on a modeling website, lured a girl for photo sessions before plying her with drugs and alcohol and sexually assaulting her.
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/modules. … e&sid=2229


Douglas Shimizu - A photographer has been arrested after allegedly sexually assaulting a model after a studio photo shoot.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/27 … -on-model/
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2012/ … tudio.html


Troy man arraigned, charged with sexual conduct with runaway teen, 17
http://www.freep.com/article/20130315/N … ay-teen-17


3 assault convictions and a murder
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jul/27 … me-model27
http://news.findlaw.com/court_tv/s/2006 … 74722.html


Ryan Chamberlain - she was sexually assaulted by a photographer as she worked as a model at a studio in the King and Bathurst streets area. 
http://www.680news.com/2012/06/11/toron … stigation/
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/11/ph … -complaint


A photographer in Pennsylvania pleaded guilty to third-degree murder on Monday in the stabbing death of a Canadian porn actress.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2005 … 50228.html

Rademaker ... lured Pandelios into the Angeles National Forest for a photo shoot, then killed her when she resisted his sexual advances
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/mar/31 … me-model31
http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/news/s … urder.html


Bradford
http://lacountymurders.com/wanted/LADIES1.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-10 … 2385.story
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Richard_Bradford


Alcala, a photographer with an IQ of more than 160, murdered Robin Samsoe, 12 .... as well as four women
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_Alcala
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … Bundy.html
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/seri … ala/1.html

(Alcala) aspiring actress and singer who disappeared from Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco on Oct. 8, 1977 after she went to pose for a freelance photographer
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-291041--.html
Alcala 2012
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-06-20/just … PM:JUSTICE


Rathbun
http://articles.latimes.com/1996-12-17/ … inda-sobek


photographer who raped and indecently assaulted his model clients has been jailed for seven years
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3004320.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl … 020861.stm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ … odels.html


Dean Kelly
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=803316
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/201 … del_a.html
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/201 … faces.html


A professional photographer was today starting a 12-month prison sentence for sexually assaulting a teenage model
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/PERVERT%2 … 0136331946


Fork: A local photographer has been arrested, accused of drugging, then attacking a 16-year-old aspiring model.
http://www.wthr.com/story/19527718/phot … els-safety
http://www.wthr.com/story/19518062/gree … ploitation
http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/crime/po … tatus=true


Sham Vancouver photographer who filmed girls in the nude should get 6 months
http://www.theprovince.com/Crown+Sham+V … story.html
http://www.theprovince.com/Crown+seeks+ … story.html


"he would help them find jobs as models and took nude photographs and videos of the girls in his home under the guise of creating modeling portfolios before sexually assaulting them"
http://www.sunjournal.com/news/city/201 … ua/1119399


"It's alright. This is how models are made."
http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/crime/prom … ping-model
http://www.koat.com/news/29417196/detail.html


"posed as a photographer for a modeling agency to entice teen-age girls into posing in lingerie or in the nude and then sexually assaulted them"
http://articles.latimes.com/1992-02-22/ … al-assault


An Arizona man is in custody for allegedly luring at least three teenage girls to his home and encouraging them to engage in sexually explicit acts while being photographed"
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/18/po … latestnews


Woman raped after answering Facebook modeling agency ruse
http://www.eagletribune.com/latestnews/ … gency-ruse


AU - Man accused of sexually assaulting aspiring model
http://www.themercury.com.au/article/20 … -news.html
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/201 … ring-model


"Victims told jurors that they came to Kaye seeking acting or modeling jobs."
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-06-10/ … rison-term


"PERVERTED photographer Mark Neville has been jailed for three years after he sexually assaulted a 17-year-old girl who posed for pictures."
http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/Pe … story.html


professional photographer is accused of sexually assaulting a model.
http://www.kpua.net/news.php?id=23913
http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/story/ … Jwn5Q.cspx


"Lee Cropper first assaulted a model during a photoshoot in September last year, dropping his trousers and admitting “I'm a pervert” before forcing the woman to sexually pleasure him. "
http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/ne … on_models/
http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/ne … ourt_told/


"Local Photographer Facing 39 Charges"
http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/Poli … 73128.html
40 charges filed against local photographer accused of molesting girl
http://www.gazette.com/articles/godec-1 … z1o520n5r8
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/1 … 45768.html


"Phony photographer arrested in incident with teenage girl, police say"
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 … -girl.html


'Photographer' who drugged and raped girls is jailed for life
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne … ip-brindle
http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Photogr … story.html


"Local photographer returned from Hawaii to face sex charges"
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/ … er_is.html


Judd Weiss
http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2012 … m.php#more


John Earl Huntt of Orlando
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 … ounty-jail
http://www.orlandopost.com/local-news/p … n-charges/
http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/John_Huntt_5277244/


"purporting to be a photographer for “Vibe” magazine"
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/2 … &noredir=1


Va. Photographer Jailed for Snapping Secret Nude Pics
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local … 26633.html
https://www.modelmayhem.com/list/7744


Orem Man Sentenced for Child Pornography
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=89256


ETX photographer arrested on 24 counts of child exploitation
http://www.ketknbc.com/news/crimewatch/ … f-child-ex

Orange resident gets prison time for luring girls online
Riverside County court convicted him of 79 felonies
Authorities believe that there were at least 80 victims, with photos from girls from at least 16 states and two countries collected from his computer after his arrest.
http://www.ocregister.com/news/girls-34 … rison.html
http://temecula.patch.com/articles/alle … ster-girls


man accused of secretly videotaping models changing clothes at a swimsuit fashion show
Robert Liguori, 51, pleaded guilty in suffolk County Criminal Court to eight counts of unlawful surveillance in the second degree
https://sites.google.com/site/therealleonardoliguori/
https://www.modelmayhem.com/friends/vie … ds/1308081


"Kansas Photographer Pleads Guilty To Child Porn Charge After Nude Photo Shoot With 14-Year-Old"
http://www.hayspost.com/2012/09/04/kans … -year-old/
"In his plea, Hausback admitted he advertised on Model Mayhem, where aspiring models meet photographers."


Roseville police arrested Buchanan, 30, a local photographer and youth volleyball coach, in December after he was accused of videotaping an underage girl in the bathroom
http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archives/ … .html#more
http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archives/ … -girl.html

#################################

Photographer accused of child porn
http://www.lvrj.com/news/police-seek-mo … ml?ref=281


Fake photo shoot teenager jailed for sexual assault
http://www.click-manchester.com/news/lo … sault.html


quite a few models vitimized
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … 893&page=1



for the record. i don't like escorts... so let's not go there.

Jun 24 13 05:26 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45291

San Juan Bautista, California, US

Dan Howell wrote:
You should have ended your participation in this thread there. The frequency and degree that you have participated in this thread, and as I notice other similar threads, give the impression that you have a vested interest in suppressing information and reporting of events like this. Why is that?

You accuse me of having a "vested interest in suppressing information and reporting" of violence against women!?!?!   How dare you!  Certainly you don't know me, nor do I know who you are, Dan Howell.  Without any reason, I would not accuse you of anything.  I participate in this thread while encouraging transparency of facts and figures as so no false accusations are made, or unnecessary fear is stirred up.  In no way do I have a "vested interest" in suppressing information.  Quite the opposite! 

Dan Howell wrote:
Have you considered that models might not want to share those details with you? They certainly share information with one another and sometimes photographers too.

Yes, I most certainly have considered that models may not want to share details of their experiences of violence or sexual assaults from other photographers.  I would most certainly hope that they share those details with the proper authorities.  I have no business knowing of such personal information.  Accusations like that belong in front of the DA and criminal court.

Dan Howell wrote:
Have I heard specific details from an involved party to violence against a model? Yes. More than once.

Am I going to share confidential details here? No. I certainly respect the confidences I have been given.

If I am told of a crime that happened, I would then consider the source and if it was something I should report to the proper authorities.  A model who has had a crime committed against her such as a violent act or a sexual assault should be talking about it with the police, not diluting it into the rumor mill by telling other models and photographers who can do nothing about it.   Of course you and I must not spread such confidential information.

Dan Howell wrote:
Have there been arrests and prosecutions for the specific questions here? Yes, it is quite obvious there have been.

Yes, I have been saying the same thing all along too!   Criminal records are made public, are they not?  So the number of photographers prosecuted and sentenced for crimes of violence and/or sexual assault against women is as much available as that of doctors, lawyers, police, or any other occupation.   

Dan Howell wrote:
Why do you keep attempting to discredit these facts?

What facts have I tried to discredit?  There have been very few facts posted on this thread.  If you have numbers that show that the occurrence of models being sexually or violently assaulted by photographers is a higher ratio than most other occupations, then please provide it.  I brought up the military because it's been in the news lately that sexual assaults having been occurring at an alarming amount.  Of course any amount of violent sexual assaults is disgusting no matter the occupation of the victims or perpetrators.  It should be reported to the proper authorities, not gossiped about in forums!   

Dan Howell wrote:
Wait...please don't answer. Just go away.

Just because you don't like what I write is not reason enough for me to "go away!"

Jun 24 13 05:45 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45291

San Juan Bautista, California, US

BeautybyGod wrote:
here's some verification for you.... and none of these include a couple of models i know personally that were assaulted.

since a couple of you asked... some links i found when some idiot on here claimed models were more likely to be struck by lightning than be harmed on a photoshoot. yeah right.

some of these links include illegal, but non-violent, acts by photographers.


Two men are accused of luring aspiring models and actresses to South Florida with promises of stardom, then drugging, sexually assaulting and filming them to fuel a pornography business
http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/MI54782/
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/08/17/2 … gging.html

"About 50 women reported similar crimes by Flanders and Callum, prosecutors told the judge"
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/ … 6108.story
http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/ … s_rape.php


http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/ … d=32210982
The 28-year-old killer lured her to his flat by telling her he was looking for girls to model jewellery.


"Photographer to the stars jailed for sex assaults"
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/photogra … 69509.html


"The man, she said, was holding what appeared to be a professional quality camera, and he told her that he was taking photographs of her to post on the Internet. "
http://www.florida-criminal-attorney-bl … rings.html


convicted of sexually assaulting 9 aspiring actresses
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-06-10/ … rison-term


Richard Dow - pleaded guilty late Tuesday afternoon to sexually assaulting 11 women and assaulting one woman. Prosecutors stayed an additional 14 charges.
http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/08/ex-c … nst-models
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/05/08/ex … nst-models
Richard Dow - A former Winnipeg police officer is headed to jail for sexually assaulting 11 young women whom he persuaded to model for his off-duty photography business.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breaki … 29906.html


Karim Remtulla - It's alleged that a man, who portrayed himself as an amateur photographer on a modeling website, lured a girl for photo sessions before plying her with drugs and alcohol and sexually assaulting her.
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/modules. … e&sid=2229


Douglas Shimizu - A photographer has been arrested after allegedly sexually assaulting a model after a studio photo shoot.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/27 … -on-model/
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2012/ … tudio.html


Troy man arraigned, charged with sexual conduct with runaway teen, 17
http://www.freep.com/article/20130315/N … ay-teen-17


3 assault convictions and a murder
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jul/27 … me-model27
http://news.findlaw.com/court_tv/s/2006 … 74722.html


Ryan Chamberlain - she was sexually assaulted by a photographer as she worked as a model at a studio in the King and Bathurst streets area. 
http://www.680news.com/2012/06/11/toron … stigation/
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/11/ph … -complaint


A photographer in Pennsylvania pleaded guilty to third-degree murder on Monday in the stabbing death of a Canadian porn actress.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2005 … 50228.html

Rademaker ... lured Pandelios into the Angeles National Forest for a photo shoot, then killed her when she resisted his sexual advances
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/mar/31 … me-model31
http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/news/s … urder.html


Bradford
http://lacountymurders.com/wanted/LADIES1.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-10 … 2385.story
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Richard_Bradford


Alcala, a photographer with an IQ of more than 160, murdered Robin Samsoe, 12 .... as well as four women
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_Alcala
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … Bundy.html
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/seri … ala/1.html

(Alcala) aspiring actress and singer who disappeared from Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco on Oct. 8, 1977 after she went to pose for a freelance photographer
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-291041--.html
Alcala 2012
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-06-20/just … PM:JUSTICE


Rathbun
http://articles.latimes.com/1996-12-17/ … inda-sobek


photographer who raped and indecently assaulted his model clients has been jailed for seven years
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3004320.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl … 020861.stm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ … odels.html


Dean Kelly
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=803316
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/201 … del_a.html
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/201 … faces.html


A professional photographer was today starting a 12-month prison sentence for sexually assaulting a teenage model
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/PERVERT%2 … 0136331946


Fork: A local photographer has been arrested, accused of drugging, then attacking a 16-year-old aspiring model.
http://www.wthr.com/story/19527718/phot … els-safety
http://www.wthr.com/story/19518062/gree … ploitation
http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/crime/po … tatus=true


Sham Vancouver photographer who filmed girls in the nude should get 6 months
http://www.theprovince.com/Crown+Sham+V … story.html
http://www.theprovince.com/Crown+seeks+ … story.html


"he would help them find jobs as models and took nude photographs and videos of the girls in his home under the guise of creating modeling portfolios before sexually assaulting them"
http://www.sunjournal.com/news/city/201 … ua/1119399


"It's alright. This is how models are made."
http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/crime/prom … ping-model
http://www.koat.com/news/29417196/detail.html


"posed as a photographer for a modeling agency to entice teen-age girls into posing in lingerie or in the nude and then sexually assaulted them"
http://articles.latimes.com/1992-02-22/ … al-assault


An Arizona man is in custody for allegedly luring at least three teenage girls to his home and encouraging them to engage in sexually explicit acts while being photographed"
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/18/po … latestnews


Woman raped after answering Facebook modeling agency ruse
http://www.eagletribune.com/latestnews/ … gency-ruse


AU - Man accused of sexually assaulting aspiring model
http://www.themercury.com.au/article/20 … -news.html
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/201 … ring-model


"Victims told jurors that they came to Kaye seeking acting or modeling jobs."
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-06-10/ … rison-term


"PERVERTED photographer Mark Neville has been jailed for three years after he sexually assaulted a 17-year-old girl who posed for pictures."
http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/Pe … story.html


professional photographer is accused of sexually assaulting a model.
http://www.kpua.net/news.php?id=23913
http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/story/ … Jwn5Q.cspx


"Lee Cropper first assaulted a model during a photoshoot in September last year, dropping his trousers and admitting “I'm a pervert” before forcing the woman to sexually pleasure him. "
http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/ne … on_models/
http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/ne … ourt_told/


"Local Photographer Facing 39 Charges"
http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/Poli … 73128.html
40 charges filed against local photographer accused of molesting girl
http://www.gazette.com/articles/godec-1 … z1o520n5r8
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/1 … 45768.html


"Phony photographer arrested in incident with teenage girl, police say"
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 … -girl.html


'Photographer' who drugged and raped girls is jailed for life
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne … ip-brindle
http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Photogr … story.html


"Local photographer returned from Hawaii to face sex charges"
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/ … er_is.html


Judd Weiss
http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2012 … m.php#more


John Earl Huntt of Orlando
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 … ounty-jail
http://www.orlandopost.com/local-news/p … n-charges/
http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/John_Huntt_5277244/


"purporting to be a photographer for “Vibe” magazine"
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/2 … &noredir=1


Va. Photographer Jailed for Snapping Secret Nude Pics
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local … 26633.html
https://www.modelmayhem.com/list/7744


Orem Man Sentenced for Child Pornography
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=89256


ETX photographer arrested on 24 counts of child exploitation
http://www.ketknbc.com/news/crimewatch/ … f-child-ex

Orange resident gets prison time for luring girls online
Riverside County court convicted him of 79 felonies
Authorities believe that there were at least 80 victims, with photos from girls from at least 16 states and two countries collected from his computer after his arrest.
http://www.ocregister.com/news/girls-34 … rison.html
http://temecula.patch.com/articles/alle … ster-girls


man accused of secretly videotaping models changing clothes at a swimsuit fashion show
Robert Liguori, 51, pleaded guilty in suffolk County Criminal Court to eight counts of unlawful surveillance in the second degree
https://sites.google.com/site/therealleonardoliguori/
https://www.modelmayhem.com/friends/vie … ds/1308081


"Kansas Photographer Pleads Guilty To Child Porn Charge After Nude Photo Shoot With 14-Year-Old"
http://www.hayspost.com/2012/09/04/kans … -year-old/
"In his plea, Hausback admitted he advertised on Model Mayhem, where aspiring models meet photographers."


Roseville police arrested Buchanan, 30, a local photographer and youth volleyball coach, in December after he was accused of videotaping an underage girl in the bathroom
http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archives/ … .html#more
http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archives/ … -girl.html

#################################

Photographer accused of child porn
http://www.lvrj.com/news/police-seek-mo … ml?ref=281


Fake photo shoot teenager jailed for sexual assault
http://www.click-manchester.com/news/lo … sault.html


quite a few models vitimized
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … 893&page=1

Thank you for all those links.   Again, there has not been anyone here doubting that sexual assaults and violence has not happened to models.  Many of the criminals were not really photographers at all.   Anyone could be a criminal, including the former police officer in the first link you provided.  You have not proven that models are in any more danger in going to do a photo shoot than they are in getting hurt or killed in a car crash on the way to the shoot.  The number of links you provide are a small number of isolated incidents that included some sort of camera or perp who pretended to be a photographer in many case, but nothing with the total number of arrests & convictions.  Some of your links are to an arrest, but no information as to conviction.

No one says that it doesn't happen, but the small number pales in comparison to the number of members on this website alone.

Jun 24 13 06:01 pm Link

Photographer

BeautybyGod

Posts: 3078

Los Angeles, California, US

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Some of your links are to an arrest, but no information as to conviction.

yeah most of the 'arrests only' are fairly recent. i'll be glad to update the list and repost it when someone sends me updated information... if you want.


Patrick Walberg wrote:
You have not proven that models are in any more danger in going to do a photo shoot than they are in getting hurt or killed in a car crash on the way to the shoot.

you think there are more models hurt or killed in car crashes on the way to shoots than the number of victims in the links i provided?

seriously?

feel free to show some links. i've seen a couple of posts on here about models getting in accidents on the way to shoots. a couple.

and for that matter if you want to prove your statements about other professions, you know what you're up against.

Jun 24 13 06:09 pm Link

Model

Caitin Bre

Posts: 2687

Apache Junction, Arizona, US

Chicchowmein wrote:
As a matter of fact there was a former MM member that was up on charges for some hinky stuff on set

( I believe it involved  drugs, non-payment and adult type stuff -- he was a flippin cop!!)

Yeah

I'd be more afraid of cops and ex-boyfriends, husbands, SO's with  jealousy and control issues than your garden variety photographer.

Of course like anything else common sense and trusting your instincts counts for a lot.

Check references. Look at the work. Be smart.

Is this who you mean?
http://www.justice.gov/usao/fls/PressRe … 17-03.html

And yes it happens more than reported.

Jun 24 13 06:58 pm Link

Photographer

Danny Bs Photos

Posts: 11

Lemesos, Government controlled area, Cyprus

ontherocks wrote:
i think some newbies might not have the courage to leave. those are the ones that maybe are most vulnerable and start threads about "this happened and then that happened and then it got really bad" so i think if you are setting about to be a model make sure you have the ability to leave even if the photographer gets upset or you lose your money or don't get images or whatever. thing about the long-term and let that shoot go already. it's ok to leave if things get weird and hopefully the photographer will let you go.


Yeah, I'm all for that. And to be honest, a chaperone is fine as long as they don't interfere. Basically, if you're a new model and the situation feels weird, trust your instincts.

I just think it's funny how that this thread has gone off on a tangent and people are falling out about nothing. Get a grip (and a life). STEP AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD!!

Jun 24 13 07:16 pm Link

Photographer

Danny Bs Photos

Posts: 11

Lemesos, Government controlled area, Cyprus

Incidentally, I met a model a few years ago through a friend (who is a very good photographer, and has since turned professional). I asked about arranging a shoot with the model and she was keen, stating the she insisted on have a chaperone at every shoot she did.

Anyway, at the end of the night she asked me if I would drive her home as it was on my way, and even invited me in for a coffee....but still turned up with a chaperone to the shoot!! She couldn't see irony that I had been in her flat alone while she was drunk two days before (and went on to date her, before anyone says I must've creeped her out the first time). To this day she still insists on chaperones for shoots, but I know of at least 1 other occasion where she's taken a guy home who she barely knows.

Jun 24 13 07:23 pm Link

Photographer

Chicchowmein

Posts: 14585

Palm Beach, Florida, US

Caitin   wrote:
Is this who you mean?
http://www.justice.gov/usao/fls/PressRe … 17-03.html

And yes it happens more than reported.

Yes I mean former police officer Lavont Flanders

now an ex-cop

not really a photographer

Just like a lot of the people who say they are models on this site are not really models

Jun 24 13 07:34 pm Link

Photographer

Kevin Connery

Posts: 17824

El Segundo, California, US

Moderator Warning!

Star wrote:
I could say you are an idiot, but i won't.

If you're not going to say it, don't say it.

Saying you could say [something] is saying [something].
Saying you could say [something that you know is violating the rules] is no less violating the rules than saying what you said/said you wouldn't say.

Everyone: if you must call names or insult others, realize that you won't get another chance to do it here.

Jun 24 13 09:37 pm Link

Photographer

Cherrystone

Posts: 37171

Columbus, Ohio, US

BeautybyGod wrote:

By jove, you've outdone yourself this time. big_smile

My answer is yes I've known models, as in plural, that were victims.

Jun 24 13 09:44 pm Link

Photographer

Revenge Photography

Posts: 1905

Horsham, Victoria, Australia

Violence does happen at shoots I don't think anyone denies that fact.

But I seriously doubt that it happens between photographers and models in any greater frequency than any other profession. If it was happening at greater frequency surely governments would have stepped in to regulate and licence the industry like they have in other industries to reduce problems.

If indeed photographers do pose a greater risk as so many fear, then it makes no sense to put an escort in harms way too.

Simply check references and if there are red flags, don't go..  If something at a shoot doesn't feel right leave.

Jun 24 13 10:57 pm Link

Photographer

AVD AlphaDuctions

Posts: 10747

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

since this has degenerated into an llama herder thread I may as well talk about a famous MM model currently serving " a few " years for murder. Amanda Logue. And her bf 9also doing time) was her llama herder for much of the last year before she got arrested.
yes its rare. but it happens.  photographers are at risk from models and their llama herders - even though she's doing time for something that wasnt technically a photoshoot.

Jun 25 13 06:57 am Link

Photographer

AVD AlphaDuctions

Posts: 10747

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Danny Bs Photos wrote:
Incidentally, I met a model a few years ago through a friend (who is a very good photographer, and has since turned professional). I asked about arranging a shoot with the model and she was keen, stating the she insisted on have a chaperone at every shoot she did.

Anyway, at the end of the night she asked me if I would drive her home as it was on my way, and even invited me in for a coffee....but still turned up with a chaperone to the shoot!! She couldn't see irony that I had been in her flat alone while she was drunk two days before (and went on to date her, before anyone says I must've creeped her out the first time). To this day she still insists on chaperones for shoots, but I know of at least 1 other occasion where she's taken a guy home who she barely knows.

I'm not sure i see the relevance? yes there are murderers but I'm not one. yes there are idiots but not every model is one. more specifically, if someone breaks a rule once does it mean they have to keep on breaking it?

Jun 25 13 07:31 am Link

Photographer

glumpy

Posts: 516

Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:
I'm not sure i see the relevance?

Girls go home with random guys they nothing about and supposedly feel safe doing so.

Ironically, they will insist on bringing a Crutc... , llama herder with them to go to an established business/ professional that they can easily check up on before hand to make sure of their Bona Fides.

Maybe if you are a good dancer, buy the girl lots of drinks and get her wasted and have a big " package" then you must be trustworthy enough to take home and sleep with?

If you are just interested in working with them, then geez, you must be suspect and the poor little model is at dire risk. 


Perhaps shooters need to take a different tact to put models at ease so they can avoid the drama's of the hanger on llama herders?

Jun 25 13 09:43 am Link

Photographer

AVD AlphaDuctions

Posts: 10747

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

glumpy wrote:
Girls go home with random guys they nothing about and supposedly feel safe doing so.

Ironically, they will insist on bringing a Crutc... , escort with them to go to an established business/ professional that they can easily check up on before hand to make sure of their Bona Fides.

Maybe if you are a good dancer, buy the girl lots of drinks and get her wasted and have a big " package" then you must be trustworthy enough to take home and sleep with?

If you are just interested in working with them, then geez, you must be suspect and the poor little model is at dire risk. 


Perhaps shooters need to take a different tact to put models at ease so they can avoid the drama's of the hanger on escorts?

so yes you are saying girls are not allowed to make a mistake and correct it after?  I have a no-escort policy but I'm afraid your logic is baffling.  so people who leave their front door open in a 'good' neighborhood  and get robbed should still leave their front door open?  people who get taken in by a scam should still believe they alone have been selected to administer the estate of the great last prince of texas? I could go on but I'm sure you see where I'm coming from.

There are plenty of reasons to just say no to escorts but this ain't one. this is just slut-shaming.

Jun 25 13 09:52 am Link

Photographer

Revenge Photography

Posts: 1905

Horsham, Victoria, Australia

AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:
since this has degenerated into an llama herder thread

Was there ever any doubt of that happening?

Jun 25 13 09:59 am Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45291

San Juan Bautista, California, US

AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:
since this has degenerated into an escort thread I may as well talk about a famous MM model currently serving " a few " years for murder. Amanda Logue. And her bf 9also doing time) was her escort for much of the last year before she got arrested.
yes its rare. but it happens.  photographers are at risk from models and their escorts - even though she's doing time for something that wasnt technically a photoshoot.

She was more by far more infamous than "famous."   It certainly created quite a stir on the forums here when it happened!  Many of us were unaware of her being known as "Sunny Dae" in the porn industry, it's like she was leading a double life.  She was not hired for a photo session, but hired to do a porn video shoot with, then a massage that did not have a happy ending for the victim. Drugs and robbery were involved.

Scary thing is that I had been in communication with her only a few months before in trying to schedule a photo shoot when she was out this way.  It was quite a surprise when I heard about the murder!  I even came to her defense here on the forum when the story first broke out.  All I was saying is that we don't know the full story, but the evidence was overwhelming against her and her boyfriend.  She is currently serving 40 years.  It might as well be life.

Jun 25 13 10:11 am Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45291

San Juan Bautista, California, US

Revenge Photography wrote:
Was there ever any doubt of that happening?

Well escorts can't prevent violence from happening at a workplace.  Even some of the most dangerous workplaces such as hospitals, shopping malls, banks, schools, and universities have security, yet violent crimes still happen.  Sometimes police officers, clergy, teachers, and doctors are in position of authority and most able to be the ones inflicting violence and/or sexual assault.  Certainly models aren't immune to being attacked, but no occupation is ... unless you are working by yourself in a bubble.  Being all alone to work with yourself is only safe if you don't hurt yourself.  wink

If you work with other people, you will be at risk of inappropriate behavior or worse.  People do sexually and violently attack others regardless if it's at work or while with a spouse or significant other.  If you are around other people, you are at risk ... and photographers, models and the escorts that might be along can all be at risk.  So why should we leave our own homes if we are so afraid of risk?

Jun 25 13 10:21 am Link