Sleepy Weasel wrote:

OK, if you think adding a simple feature to a device makes it evolutionary, then by your definition, I guess I don't understand what that means--or else EVERY sequel device that comes out from anyone is evolutionary, making the comment that it's evolutionary meaningless.

Maybe this will help you:
ev·o·lu·tion
n.
1. A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form. See Synonyms at development.
2.
a. The process of developing.
b. Gradual development.

Sleepy Weasel wrote:

OK, if you think adding a simple feature to a device makes it evolutionary, then by your definition, I guess I don't understand what that means--or else EVERY sequel device that comes out from anyone is evolutionary, making the comment that it's evolutionary meaningless.

What's weird is that you think that the only thing added to the 5S is a fingerprint sensor.

Sleepy Weasel wrote:

OK, if you think adding a simple feature to a device makes it evolutionary, then by your definition, I guess I don't understand what that means--or else EVERY sequel device that comes out from anyone is evolutionary, making the comment that it's evolutionary meaningless.

It doesn't make it meaningless.  But shows that evolution can be small incremental steps or large steps.

I think too many people are too caught up in the details.

Do you want the device?  No, then move on to one that you do want.

Do you want the device?  hip hip hurray!!  Go enjoy the new toy.

Right now, my two favorite phones are the HTC One and the iPhone.

I have an iPhone 5.

Wye wrote:

What's weird is that you think that the only thing added to the 5S is a fingerprint sensor.

That is all they added...I think.  The rest are just changes to existing components.

hardwarewise...I forget all the new iOS stuff.

Christopher Hartman wrote:
That is all they added...I think.  The rest are just changes to existing components.

hardwarewise...I forget all the new iOS stuff.

Not really.. the camera and flash hardware is new.. sure it's replacing an existing camera.. but that's just sophistry -- the sensor is larger and the lens aperture is larger too.  The flash is now a dual-color flash (supposedly for better color.. we shall see).  The camera can now record 720p at 120fps which is pretty cool.

The've also added the new motion co-processor which will make for some interesting fitness and VR apps, I think.

They've switched over to a 64 bit architecture which I think is more for the benefit of devices like the iPad but it's a good future proofing move.

The faster CPU and faster graphics are nice (though again.. it starts to become a bit silly in a phone) and having all of that with the same battery life and the same weight as the 5 is pretty impressive.

But in the end the "S" models have always been about an incremental improvement over the existing model. There's nothing surprising in that. People said that the 5 was light years behind the Samsung S3 (in specs, etc) but it sold far more than the SIII ever did.  People will now say that the S4 is light years ahead of the 5S... but I have no doubt it will sell just as well as the 5, if not better.  People like GK and Sleepy and others may not understand why people want these devices.. but the fact of the matter is that people do... millions of them.  Will this phone close the marketshare gap? No. of course not.  Anyone who thinks so is being ridiculous.   But this phone will sell and sell well.  Same goes for the 4S and the 5C.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
It's interesting (and definitely non-Jobs-like) that Apple is offering free upgrades to the new IOS for phones that are ~3 years old or newer.  Could the stock price dip be, in part, because of Apple foregoing upgrade fees for older phones?  Is the IOS upgrade not worth charging for it?

You're mistaken.  There's never been a charge for upgrading phones to the latest iOS.  Not once.

I think the only time they charged for an iOS was for iPod touches prior to iOS 4. 

So there hasn't been a fee to upgrade iOS for any device in over 3 years.. and never for a phone.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
Case in point:  Apple makes a big splash announcement, and the stock price drops >5% today.  Now, I don't think that's significant -- I think day traders are crazy and a single day dip or peak is usually not significant; I'm going to hold onto my Apple stock, at least through the holiday season.

But I wonder whether the stock dip is an indictment by stock holders.  I mean,
...  It's nice that Apple has multiple price points for new phones,
...  It's nice that Apple can say nice things about the new IOS,
...  but are those things truly significant?

the dip was over supply chain worries in china, apple's main target demo in this current phone's iteration.

The Spaces Between wrote:
When your loyal fans are holding off for another year, in terms of phone cycles, it's not a good sign.

Yeah. Apple has to start making their phones die sooner.

The Spaces Between wrote:
Apple was already falling behind other makes.  This does not help them.  Even Apple fans are underwhelmed and are waiting for another year.

When your loyal fans are holding off for another year, in terms of phone cycles, it's not a good sign.

In 24 hours since the official announcement, how and where did you hear all this?
Do you have Apple census agents all over the world sending real time data?

I was going to hold off but i am now considering the 5s after reading the specs.

Art Silva Photography wrote:
In 24 hours since the official announcement, how and where did you hear all this?
Do you have Apple census agents all over the world sending real time data?

I was going to hold off but i am now considering the 5s after reading the specs.

ive actively sought out articles and forum threads for reactions.  ive browsed probably 500+ or more comments, thread responses or more since yesterday (yeah i was bored ha ha).  people who own iphones are pretty much saying what i said above overall.  its hard to get excited about such incremental change.

The Spaces Between wrote:
ive actively sought out articles and forum threads for reactions.  ive browsed probably 500+ or more comments, thread responses or more since yesterday (yeah i was bored ha ha).  people who own iphones are pretty much saying what i said above overall.  its hard to get excited about such incremental change.

Compared to what?
I don't see android making anything beyond incremental changes either, except shell designs and widget placement options but again all that is insignificant and anything else is fluff.

Somehow I find it hard to believe that in one day there are full articles of honest reviews of what Apple owners has seen and concluded they will drop Apple. I have seen all day today excitement about the significant upgrades of the 5s even from Non iOS users.

Now on the other hand you may be reading reports on the plastic back 5c which is a 5 with slight tweak improvements on battery, screen and apps. They do look a bit cheesy but that's the purpose, to sell to the masses for $99. A clever way to empty the stock of existing iPhone 5 hardware imho.
Apple faithful do not like going backwards in design and this is probably what you were reading mistaking it for the 5s

I do hope you weren't browsing Google+ threads because they are the worse and Soooooo bias when it comes to smartphone discussions, you can imagine where the scale tips with that community.

Wye wrote:

Not really.. the camera and flash hardware is new.. sure it's replacing an existing camera.. but that's just sophistry -- the sensor is larger and the lens aperture is larger too.  The flash is now a dual-color flash (supposedly for better color.. we shall see).  The camera can now record 720p at 120fps which is pretty cool.

The've also added the new motion co-processor which will make for some interesting fitness and VR apps, I think.

They've switched over to a 64 bit architecture which I think is more for the benefit of devices like the iPad but it's a good future proofing move.

The faster CPU and faster graphics are nice (though again.. it starts to become a bit silly in a phone) and having all of that with the same battery life and the same weight as the 5 is pretty impressive.

But in the end the "S" models have always been about an incremental improvement over the existing model. There's nothing surprising in that. People said that the 5 was light years behind the Samsung S3 (in specs, etc) but it sold far more than the SIII ever did.  People will now say that the S4 is light years ahead of the 5S... but I have no doubt it will sell just as well as the 5, if not better.  People like GK and Sleepy and others may not understand why people want these devices.. but the fact of the matter is that people do... millions of them.  Will this phone close the marketshare gap? No. of course not.  Anyone who thinks so is being ridiculous.   But this phone will sell and sell well.  Same goes for the 4S and the 5C.

People like me? When did I ever say I don't understand why people wouldn't want these? The only thing I said was that it's hardly evolutionary. The above dictionary definition describes every phone that comes out by anyone. But you can all keep drooling over these overpriced minor hardware upgrades. As I've said before, there's nothing that other phones haven't had out for awhile already. Disappointing.

Sleepy Weasel wrote:

People like me? When did I ever say I don't understand why people wouldn't want these? The only thing I said was that it's hardly evolutionary. The above dictionary definition describes every phone that comes out by anyone. But you can all keep drooling over these overpriced minor hardware upgrades. As I've said before, there's nothing that other phones haven't had out for awhile already. Disappointing.

by your last statements you show you don't understand why people buy these. The iPhone 5 supposedly had nothing new that other phones had already and it sold like gangbusters. Far in excess of its competition.

This is only a "minor upgrade" if the main purchasers are iPhone 5 users. More likely is it will be iPhone 4 and 4s users. Again you show that you just don't understand why and when people buy these.

I'm not drooling over anything. I think it's a nice incremental upgrade to their product line. Exactly in keeping with the other "s" models they've released in the past. It's unlikely I'll buy one.  I'm more likely to buy whatever next years or the year afters model when it won't be an incremental upgrade from my 5.

DougBPhoto wrote:
Not to go too off-topic, but I wonder if the offering of the fingerprint reader on this model of iPhone suggests they might do the same on the upcoming new iPads ?

I have an iPhone 5 and am pretty happy with it compared to earlier ones, so I am not surprised the 5s does not have huge changes.

people...the fingerprint gimmick is old and ridiculous. the atrix 4g had this function 3 years ago, and it was laughable. kind of like siri.

my son's lg has a face recognition unlock function. silly boy, i took a photo of him on my phone, then faced his phone towards mine when he was in login mode...et, voila. why a four key password needs to be improved upon is beyond me.

apple needs to update their dialer and keyboard. neither one has left the '07 standards. they keep trying to hook people with goofy gimmicks, rather than bring their tech into the 21st century.

ios is old, tired and in need of assistive living. someone needs to move it forward, or the novelty will die. the problem is, most iFolks don't see how tired the os is. they just want a new, shiny apple.

GK photo wrote:
people...the fingerprint gimmick is old and ridiculous. the atrix 4g had this function 3 years ago, and it was laughable. kind of like siri.

Siri is incredibly useful.  I'm not surprised that you don't understand that but I use it every single day.  As usual I reserve judgement on a feature that I haven't used but after watching a tutorial about the idiotic way that Motorola implemented a fingerprint sensor I can see why you would think it was ridiculous.  I can't say that they definitively made the idea of a fingerprint sensor *good* but I trust apple to implement it better than anyone else.

my son's lg has a face recognition unlock function. silly boy, i took a photo of him on my phone, then faced his phone towards mine when he was in login mode...et, voila. why a four key password needs to be improved upon is beyond me.

You probably wondered why a phone with a physical keyboard needed to be improved upon too.  People with vision try things.. they don't always succeed but they actually try.  Personally I use a 7 letter password on my phone.. definitely an improvement over 4.  As I mentioned earlier I am skeptical of the security of a fingerprint sensor both in theory and in practice.  But I am willing to see what they've actually done and how (there are alot of unknowns) before passing judgement.

ios is old, tired and in need of assistive living. someone needs to move it forward, or the novelty will die. the problem is, most iFolks don't see how tired the os is. they just want a new, shiny apple.

Sorry but you've been saying this for years and the supposed "novelty" has done nothing but pick up speed.  People crowed about how much better then half a year old SIII was then the 5 (you in particular).  Predicted no sales because it was just old tech in a new body.. people would wait for the 6.  Guess what? The 5 *destroyed* the SIII in sales.  It was like usain bolt running against a 3 year old child who was pointed in the wrong direction. It tooks Samsung 6 months to sell as many phones as apple did in 3.

We get it.. you've got some sort of hate on for apple.  They could come to your house and give you a 24K solid gold bar and you'd still tell them it was the 8th best gold bar in the world and only an iTard or an iSheep would want this gold bar..

The OS keeps moving forward in really great ways.  The devices keep moving forward in ways that millions of people around the world want.  And yes.. we get it.. you think those millions of people are deluded and if only they'd listen to GK and understand how he will show them the light because he knows something that those millions don't.  He knows what they are just too blind and brainwashed to see.  GK understands all of the reasons and ways a person uses a phone and everyone who isn't doing it his way is doing it wrong.

Sorry.. but it just doesn't fly.  Lots of reasons to love android (and devices that run them) but after 6 years of this there has never been one compelling enough to convince me (and I've tried many) that it's better than what I'm using.  Would I like some of the features that android devices have? Sure. But I'm not willing to suffer with the rest of android to get them.  I'll wait until apple implements them in the way that I like.  The rest of the experience is well worth the wait.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
Case in point:  Apple makes a big splash announcement, and the stock price drops >5% today.  Now, I don't think that's significant -- I think day traders are crazy and a single day dip or peak is usually not significant; I'm going to hold onto my Apple stock, at least through the holiday season.

But I wonder whether the stock dip is an indictment by stock holders.  I mean,
...  It's nice that Apple has multiple price points for new phones,
...  It's nice that Apple can say nice things about the new IOS,
...  but are those things truly significant?

GK photo wrote:
the dip was over supply chain worries in china, apple's main target demo in this current phone's iteration.

That's a reasonable guess.

When investing, I tend to think long term.  A supply chain issue is nearly always a short term issue, and hence is of no consequence for me.  Short term, in this case, might be through the end of the month; mid-term might be through the end of the year; and long term might be for the next 52 weeks.

From an investment point of view, I think AAPL is a solid "Hold", and if there is a more significant dip, it might even be a good "Buy".

The Spaces Between wrote:
Apple was already falling behind other makes.  This does not help them.  Even Apple fans are underwhelmed and are waiting for another year.

When your loyal fans are holding off for another year, in terms of phone cycles, it's not a good sign.

Well, I don't know about it -- there are some interesting marketing / industry dynamics going on.

We all remember when smart phones were new (~10 years ago), and marketing was focused on getting new customers.  Now, everyone inclined to have a smart phone already has it, and marketing is focused on getting existing smart phone customers to purchase the new smart phone.  The question for companies is how to get their existing customers excited about the new models.  Some customers will want the new model simply because they are new.  Other customers will be thrilled by simple, no-cost "improvements", like new body colors.  But many customers will need some kind of incentive to move.

The challenge is that those technical advances take time, and often, in a yearly cycle (i.e. being able to get to market in time for the holiday season), there isn't enough time to make significant improvements.  And of course, even if/when there is a significant improvement, that kind of advance isn't always sustainable from year to year.

It's an interesting challenge for companies.

Wye wrote:

Not really.. the camera and flash hardware is new.. sure it's replacing an existing camera.. but that's just sophistry -- the sensor is larger and the lens aperture is larger too.  The flash is now a dual-color flash (supposedly for better color.. we shall see).  The camera can now record 720p at 120fps which is pretty cool.

The've also added the new motion co-processor which will make for some interesting fitness and VR apps, I think.

They've switched over to a 64 bit architecture which I think is more for the benefit of devices like the iPad but it's a good future proofing move.

The faster CPU and faster graphics are nice (though again.. it starts to become a bit silly in a phone) and having all of that with the same battery life and the same weight as the 5 is pretty impressive.

But in the end the "S" models have always been about an incremental improvement over the existing model. There's nothing surprising in that. People said that the 5 was light years behind the Samsung S3 (in specs, etc) but it sold far more than the SIII ever did.  People will now say that the S4 is light years ahead of the 5S... but I have no doubt it will sell just as well as the 5, if not better.  People like GK and Sleepy and others may not understand why people want these devices.. but the fact of the matter is that people do... millions of them.  Will this phone close the marketshare gap? No. of course not.  Anyone who thinks so is being ridiculous.   But this phone will sell and sell well.  Same goes for the 4S and the 5C.

That's why I put the   come on!!

I did forget about the motion sensor thing, that's new...I think.  At least improved...evolutionary? are we allowed to say that now?

But I wouldn't call the camera new.  It's always had a camera.  It's had a flash for a while.  So those are definitely evolutionary changes...assuming we're allowed to use that word.

The Spaces Between wrote:

ive actively sought out articles and forum threads for reactions.  ive browsed probably 500+ or more comments, thread responses or more since yesterday (yeah i was bored ha ha).  people who own iphones are pretty much saying what i said above overall.  its hard to get excited about such incremental change.

But the "s-version" has ALWAYS been just an incremental change.  The design changes are on a two year cycle.

personally, because of competition, I expected a larger phone.  But I guess if they are going to do it, it'll be next year.  Or maybe Apple is going to stick with this size.  I don't know...I still like my phone.  We'll see if I still like it with iOS 7.

Wye wrote:

by your last statements you show you don't understand why people buy these. The iPhone 5 supposedly had nothing new that other phones had already and it sold like gangbusters. Far in excess of its competition.

This is only a "minor upgrade" if the main purchasers are iPhone 5 users. More likely is it will be iPhone 4 and 4s users. Again you show that you just don't understand why and when people buy these.

I'm not drooling over anything. I think it's a nice incremental upgrade to their product line. Exactly in keeping with the other "s" models they've released in the past. It's unlikely I'll buy one.  I'm more likely to buy whatever next years or the year afters model when it won't be an incremental upgrade from my 5.

I'm actually glad it's not hugely amazing. I just got the 5 last year. I don't to spend $300 every year.  Every two years is good for me.

GK photo wrote:

people...the fingerprint gimmick is old and ridiculous. the atrix 4g had this function 3 years ago, and it was laughable. kind of like siri.

my son's lg has a face recognition unlock function. silly boy, i took a photo of him on my phone, then faced his phone towards mine when he was in login mode...et, voila. why a four key password needs to be improved upon is beyond me.

apple needs to update their dialer and keyboard. neither one has left the '07 standards. they keep trying to hook people with goofy gimmicks, rather than bring their tech into the 21st century.

ios is old, tired and in need of assistive living. someone needs to move it forward, or the novelty will die. the problem is, most iFolks don't see how tired the os is. they just want a new, shiny apple.

Quit living in the past.

3 years ago? ooooh...as if nothing can be improved upon in 3 years and made better.

Why a 4 key password needs to be improved upon?  You didn't listen to the keynote did you?  They have studies that show most people don't bother with enabling that security.  My parents wouldn't have.  I did it for them.  All of my friends have some sort of security on all their phones.  I have one co-worker who can't be bothered with it.  So those people do exist.  Maybe the ease of a finger print reader will get those people to secure their phones.  It's not Apple's responsibility to make their users 'safer', but it is cool that they look into using new tech that is perhaps less complicated/cumbersome to get those that lack the initiative to add that extra layer of protection.

As for the iOS...biased much?  yawn.

Jules NYC wrote:
I have the 4S but wish I had the 5 so I can surf the web and talk simultaneously.

The speed and all that, very similar.
I check all tech reviews.

You can do that with the 4s as well if you have T-Mobile or AT&T.

If you have Verizon or Sprint...I do not believe the iPhone 5 or 5s will allow you to talk and surf at the same time.

The Spaces Between wrote:
Apple was already falling behind other makes.  This does not help them.  Even Apple fans are underwhelmed and are waiting for another year.

How was Apple falling behind exactly?  The iPhone 5 was the best selling smart phone in the world this year and Apple has the largest US market share for any smart phone vendor in the second quarter and it wasn't even close.

http://bgr.com/2013/08/06/us-smartphone … 3-nielsen/

The Spaces Between wrote:
Apple was already falling behind other makes.  This does not help them.  Even Apple fans are underwhelmed and are waiting for another year.

Let There Be Light wrote:
How was Apple falling behind exactly?

Don't bother. People just love saying all sorts of things as if it's law/fact/truth.

"All iPhone buyers are just people who want the latest thing with the quote-unquote cool factor!"Nevermind all the business people who use them for the functionality. Or the people who buy them because… well, you know… because they actually like them.

"Apple doesn't innovate! They're toast!!"Name the last few innovative things we saw in smartphones. The iPhone was on the leading edge of many of those things and even if they weren't, which of the Samsung phones are truly innovative as opposed to being progressions of a previous generation? That's all any cell phone manufacturer is doing right now.

"All the Apple fans are passing on this phone! It's not innovative!" Well, aside from the fact that it hasn't even gone on sale yet, the big changes are always every other year. Plenty of people are going to get this 5S (myself included) mainly because of the fact that my upgrade falls at this time and it will be the available iOS phone (I mean, yes, I could get a 5C but I actually like the look of the 5S and will get that).

I passed on getting a 5 back in July when my contract expired to wait for the latest one since my 4 is in perfect condition. I didn't mind waiting. Espcially since it means that my next upgrade will be a 6S, meaning next year they'll make changes to the hardware, introduce new features, work out some kinks and a year later when my contract is ready to renew, they'll upgrade the 6 to the 6S with even more features. You have many people who specifically wait for the off-year. Of course people who bought the 5 aren't likely to upgrade, they're in the middle of a contract and it's costly.

Christopher Hartman wrote:
Quit living in the past.


As for the iOS...biased much?  yawn.

hey hartman, your new tires are in.

GK photo wrote:

hey hartman, your new tires are in.

Tell us about the vastly superior phone OS that you are using and explain why it and your phone is so much more awesomer.

I've seen a LOT of phones.  Lots of cool shit out there.  But I haven't seen ANYTHING out there that makes me "oh man, I have to have that, I'm switching!!"

if I didn't have  smart phone, would I get an iPhone today?  I don't know.  The HTC One looks like a really nice phone.  The PHONE looks nice.  As for the OS...meh...they all pretty much look the same to me.  All touch interfaces.  Icons and pages you sweep back and forth to get from one to another.

I will say this, when it comes to setting UP a phone and going through all the phone settings, security, etc...I think Apple's iOS is better than Android.  Androids been too cumbersome to find what I want.  And to turn off Amber Alerts...on my iPhone...easy.  On my friend's S3...gave up.  DOn't know if true, but someone told him he needed to call his carrier (Verizon) to have it disabled.  WTF?

Andialu wrote:
What compels you guys to have the same conversation, over, and over, and over?

With the new rules on MM, there are only about 6-7 topics allowed.

Wye wrote:
by your last statements you show you don't understand why people buy these. The iPhone 5 supposedly had nothing new that other phones had already and it sold like gangbusters. Far in excess of its competition.

This is only a "minor upgrade" if the main purchasers are iPhone 5 users. More likely is it will be iPhone 4 and 4s users. Again you show that you just don't understand why and when people buy these.

I'm not drooling over anything. I think it's a nice incremental upgrade to their product line. Exactly in keeping with the other "s" models they've released in the past. It's unlikely I'll buy one.  I'm more likely to buy whatever next years or the year afters model when it won't be an incremental upgrade from my 5.

I know why people buy iPhones. I've referred people to buy iPhones based on their technical know-how, desire to customize, cost, familiarity, etc. So there goes your theory on that.

Second, selling well and having new features are not mutually exclusive. People buy them because they're invested in (and presumably like) the Apple ecosystem. In some cases, I'd also say they might prefer the look, camera, out-of-the-box usage, and even "status" of the iPhone. But I seriously doubt many (if any) buy iPhones anymore for their technical prowess, as was the case when they came out because there was nothing else like it. Feature-wise, they are behind now (there are plenty of sites online that show features Android has had for awhile that iOS either still doesn't have or has added since Android came out with them at least a year earlier). That's all I'm saying. Even Apple fanboys agree and are awaiting the next big thing that never seems to come.

It's no secret I despise Apple, but without them incorporating new technology or ideas into their phone, I fear stagnation across the board. Android needed Apple to push them to make a better product, and they did. Apple is just too smug and doesn't think they need to compete because their product is so awesome--at least that's the attitude they emit to me. But that's what great about the Android ecosystem WFP rags on all the time...open source allows new ideas from people outside of the mother ship, and a lot of those get added into the new phones. It's what helps makes Android what it is. (For the record, I've never had malware on any of my last 5 Android phones).

Jules NYC wrote:
I have the 4S but wish I had the 5 so I can surf the web and talk simultaneously.

The speed and all that, very similar.
I check all tech reviews.

With all the upgrade programs, would it make sense to trade in your 4S (for what, $150 or $200 maybe) and pick up a 5C for $99?

Wye wrote:
What's weird is that you think that the only thing added to the 5S is a fingerprint sensor.

What's weird is how you keep putting words in my mouth and making assumptions based on things I never said.

My reply was to the comment someone made implying the fingerprint sensor made this new phone "evolutionary."

What I DID say/imply is that most everything else was an upgrade or something other phones have had fro awhile - not "new."

Art Silva Photography wrote:
Compared to what?
I don't see android making anything beyond incremental changes either, except shell designs and widget placement options but again all that is insignificant and anything else is fluff.

Somehow I find it hard to believe that in one day there are full articles of honest reviews of what Apple owners has seen and concluded they will drop Apple. I have seen all day today excitement about the significant upgrades of the 5s even from Non iOS users.

Now on the other hand you may be reading reports on the plastic back 5c which is a 5 with slight tweak improvements on battery, screen and apps. They do look a bit cheesy but that's the purpose, to sell to the masses for $99. A clever way to empty the stock of existing iPhone 5 hardware imho.
Apple faithful do not like going backwards in design and this is probably what you were reading mistaking it for the 5s

I do hope you weren't browsing Google+ threads because they are the worse and Soooooo bias when it comes to smartphone discussions, you can imagine where the scale tips with that community.

uh no.  Im not comparing it to Samsung or anything.  I'm saying the reaction is meh.  And i was referring to the hundreds of comments of regular people voicing opinions as to their reactions, which is exactly what i was talking about.

No, the reaction was to both the 5c and 5s.  meh.

Update - it looks like the all important China market, which Apple was targeting with the 5c is giving it a forsty reception:

"In fact, a survey conducted by Weibo, China's biggest social network, reported that only 2.6 percent of the 35,000-plus respondents it surveyed indicated no interest in buying an iPhone 5C. What's more, 89 percent of the respondents said the device was "too expensive."

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57602 … and-china/

also -

http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/ip … ion-126870

http://www.eweek.com/mobile/apple-iphon … china.html


and Apple stocks took a bit of a tumble too and many downgrades followed the announcements.

So instead of rushing to defend Apple, maybe you can realize that the volume of reactions, reports, comments, and surveys shows exactly what i was saying.  Meh and unimpressed.