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Open leg
The presence or absence of "open leg" does not define the artistic merit of an image. I've seen wonderfully artistic "open leg" images, with beautiful lighting, great composition, dramatic impact, etc. I've also seen crude & ugly "open leg" images. As a photographer of the nude, I always appreciate models who are confident & uninhibited. I tend not to create images that are, umm, gynecological in nature, but it's nice to have the option if the notion, chemistry, inspiration, etc. strikes. Modeling is a competitive business, and nothing determines rates more than the supply & demand on available talent. Many nude models will not pose "open leg", thus there typically is a smaller supply of models who would, and that reduced supply can lead to higher rates for the model. So, you go. Aug 05 14 08:12 am Link Toto Photo wrote: MoRina wrote: Yes MoRina, I meant the OP and not you. BTW, she's changed it now. Aug 05 14 11:05 am Link Miss 5 11 wrote: ALL this should be handled BEFORE the shoot ... Aug 05 14 11:33 am Link I've only worked with one photographer that did art nudes that asked me to do open leg. A lot of what he does is geared more towards fetish so it didn't surprise me and I was comfortable with doing it. I was quite familiar with his work so I didn't really need to have a conversation on limits beforehand. In your case I would ask prospective photographers what they wanted to shoot and charge accordingly. Aug 05 14 11:41 am Link Interesting question. I feel as you do; what's the big deal? When I was modeling regularly I never made a price distinction between open leg or otherwise. I nearly always enjoyed working with the photographer to help he or she achieve the images they sought. Just my 2 cents worth.  Kim Miss 5 11 wrote: Aug 05 14 11:47 am Link kimlasnude wrote: I love your look! Aug 05 14 12:02 pm Link ...and I love the mentality :-) Jerry Nemeth wrote: Aug 05 14 12:30 pm Link Dear Kim, You make open leg look good, a natural part of the effect not a cheap easy grab for attention. Yours is a style I'd like to emulate, learn to do well. Your beautiful face is the first thing that arrests my eye when I look at a photo of you even when your legs are also open. Sorry to be so frank but you seem a kindred spirit and will understand my dilemma. Aug 05 14 03:34 pm Link IMO, you should charge more or less based on the overall description of the shoot and how you personally feel about the shoot... not based on how much you do or do not reveal. With that said, in regards to rates, erotic/explicit glamour/fetish does tend to pay more, so it is something to keep in mind when considering offers. Aug 05 14 03:55 pm Link I don't think the OP is asking if she should charge more for open leg shoots, I think she's asking if she should charge more for all shoots because she's more relaxed about posing than other art models. That's what I'm getting anyway. Do "implied only" models charge the same as full nude models? Do photographers pay that? I don't know. Maybe that holds the answer. Aug 05 14 04:19 pm Link JadeDRed wrote: I interpreted her questions 1 and 2 as her asking if she should specifically charge more for open leg. Aug 05 14 04:21 pm Link IDiivil wrote: It could be, but it doesn't sound like that to me. She says her art nude rate is 100 and she wants to raise her art nude rate to 150. She says she's already doing open leg as part of her art nude work since that's what photographers ask for on art nude shoots. Aug 05 14 04:26 pm Link JadeDRed wrote: Ah, oops, I guess the OP was edited! A couple posts below the initial post shows the original OP in a quote. That's what I was basing my initial thoughts from Aug 05 14 04:31 pm Link kimlasnude wrote: Hi Kim Aug 05 14 04:38 pm Link Jerry Nemeth wrote: Thank you for that insight Jerry, whatever would we do without ever having known that! Aug 05 14 05:19 pm Link I think the simple answer is, sure try upping your rates if you feel like you have 'more' to offer. If people begin to decline, then you know what to do. Aug 05 14 05:20 pm Link If you feel are willing to pay that rate for your look in your market then give it a try. I personally don't hire modes on a sliding scale, they are worth what they are worth for their look (and a little based on expiernce). I would also suspect that advertising open leg rates will attract the wrong kind of client IMO Aug 05 14 05:30 pm Link London Fog wrote: There was no need for the comment. Aug 05 14 05:40 pm Link Alivia Autumn wrote: the more you show, the more you charge. Aug 05 14 06:33 pm Link Here's my take, I'm out to get artistic images, and I am on a budget. At $100 hr I can afford to shoot with you. At $150, I can't and the fact you are comfortable with that pose or angle is not a factor for me. Aug 05 14 07:03 pm Link Miss 5 11 wrote: You just made me have to look at Kin's port. Aug 05 14 07:17 pm Link I shoot in Melbourne every now and again when I'm travelling there for work, and have shot with several of the better-known nude models there (who do not do open leg work). It is noticeably easier and more relaxing to shoot with the models who are not worried about revealing a little more if the poses end up that way and the exposure is incidental to the pose rather than the focus of the image. A couple of weeks ago I was planning a shoot in Melbourne and looking through the profiles of local models, including yours. The fact that you're obviously not too worried about more revealing poses definitely works in your favour over other models who make it obvious from their profile that they're adamantly against letting their knees move apart. In fact I was going to contact you to see if you were available but instead ended up scheduling a shoot with a friend of a friend which then fell through at the last minute. Sigh. The $150/hour for more revealing shots thing works against you though IMHO. It would leave me unsure exactly where I stand. If we're working through some poses and you end up revealing a little more, does that mean that you'll now expect me to pay $150/hr rather than the $100/hr that I'd intended/budgeted? I also suspect if a photographer agrees to your $150/hr rate they're likely going to want/expect to shoot the kind of images you say you don't want to shoot. Personally my advice to you would be to stick to $100/hr (which seems to be what you've decided to do, based on what's on your profile right now), don't explicitly mention that you're comfortable with more revealing poses in your profile but instead include a couple of more revealing images in your portfolio which will get the message across but hopefully avoid attracting the 'wrong sort' of photographer.. and will also leave you with the option to not reveal anything if you're not feeling it at the time. Cheers.. Aug 05 14 08:20 pm Link Very helpful advice. That is what I've decided to do. I'll Just wait till the photographer asks for open leg during the shoot and reward him with the welcome surprise of compliance. However I'm still left wondering how I can capitalise on my lack of inhibition and willingness to do more revealing poses and signal this advantage over other models in my profile somewhere. This is where your advice is also so good. Just convey it not in words but in pictures in my port. That should do it. I think photographers are good at picking exactly what they want in a potential model by what they see. Some girl's ports are tame yet they will agree to more revealing poses on application. Quietly. They receive the advantage of a higher fee at the time of email negotiations. I have a photographer who says "It doesn't hurt to ask" and he gets what he wants. 'Ask and you shall receive'. I forget who said that…. someone wise. Aug 05 14 09:07 pm Link Miss 5 11 wrote: You're hired! Aug 05 14 09:13 pm Link Jerry Nemeth wrote: Yes, I agree! Aug 05 14 09:15 pm Link Miss 5 11 wrote: It sounds like a wise course. I would say that the most obvious way that you would capitalize would actually be from greater popularity - you would book more shoots, get more repeat clients, and get good word-of-mouth publicity. If it turns out that you're working more than you can handle, then raising your rates then is perfectly acceptable. Aug 05 14 09:26 pm Link Miss 5 11 wrote: Start developing your brand by marketing yourself to high end photographers and getting published. Aug 05 14 09:45 pm Link Can you imagine if this conversation were about photographers? - Well, I could use the special lens, but that will cost $50/£30 an hour more Or make up artists? - In my bag, I have a better eye liner, but that's an extra £30/$50 per hour I know it doesn't work that way in the real (modelling) world, but I always think you just 'pay for the person's time' - who cares what they are doing Aug 06 14 12:12 am Link MDWM wrote: +1 Aug 06 14 05:23 am Link My guess is that most every male photographer active in the forums will probably respond to this thread You know in the name of "Art " and all Aug 06 14 05:31 am Link Miss 5 11 wrote: After looking at your port I really don't understand your question. You have the exact photos that leaves little left to wonder about. Are you not capitalizing on your willingness to do open leg now? I don't think much needs to be said wording wise when your photos tell the story;) Aug 06 14 05:44 am Link Garry k wrote: I like the way you responded! Sort of an "I'm not really here" approach. Nice! Aug 06 14 08:36 am Link My take on it is there seems to be two camps forming....and one is more vocal than the other. The Ï don't think I should have to pay extra" group have been the bulk of the posts so I'll just put it out there that I think she should be able to charge a premium if she is OK with sharing herself more intimately than a model who limits the types of poses that she considers acceptable. I think a nude model should be paid more than a bikini model and I think that idea is pretty much universally accepted, no? So following the same logic the model that shares herself more intimately than a "knees closed at all times" model.... why is it unreasonable for her not to expect to be rewarded more....being as she did more. The camps also seem to be divided into experienced photographers vs newbies. I know I can't give a model these portfolio changing "photo of the day" type images so unless the model is brand new and wants TFP, I'm going to have to pay, even for non nude. The experienced guys can offer a better image so their TFP might help a model even more then my cash did....in the long run. But thats the way it is and I accept that. Aug 06 14 10:56 am Link If the market will get you more, go for it; it's a business. It seems you may be addressing a line between art and porn in terms of open or closed. As a male model, there is also such a line but it might be clearer for us. Aug 06 14 12:51 pm Link Miss 5 11 wrote: I did A LOT of painting, illustration, and sculpture of the human form long before using a camera to capture it. This means lots and lots of study of musculature, skeletal features, and of course, all the natural differences which can be witnessed from human to human, obviously and most especially within the same gender. Aug 06 14 01:12 pm Link Aug 06 14 01:18 pm Link Dear Miss 5 11 Your portfolio demonstrates that you are uninhibited but natural. I would not focus on "open leg" style photography but just assume poses that MAY show your labia but that is not the center of interest. I myself don't take explicit images of women but I do appreciate someone who trusts me to make sensuous yet tasteful shots. I have never done a strictly genital shot yet there are poses that are bold and revealing that can add to the model's repertoire. You want to be appreciated for the whole package, right? Aug 06 14 01:55 pm Link NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote: Of course Aug 06 14 02:12 pm Link Looknsee Photography wrote: I am trying really hard to envision open leg with what I consider "Art " and somehow I just don't think it would work ...but maybe its me Aug 06 14 02:21 pm Link The vast majority of my nude work is for trade. I’ve paid two models in nearly three years (and both deeply discounted their rates, so those shoots took place at $30 and $50/hour). However, I have a pretty good idea of what many MM models charge for nude work. In the US, $100/hour is top dollar for nude work, at least on MM. I don’t know what the practice is in Australia. While exchange rates fluctuate, the average for the AUD over a period of several years is probably somewhere between 90-95 cents US, so there isn’t much difference in the currencies. The MM models in the US who charge $100/hour generally fall into two groups – the top models on MM (in terms of experience, skills and demand), and newer models who see that there are models who are being paid $100/hour, so they adopt that as their rate. I know of one model who charges $125/hour, and she stays very busy. I suspect there’s a reason why many of the top models charge $100 rather than $150 (and many of them are willing to negotiate downward), and it’s not because they don’t want the extra money. Also, most of the models I know or know of who charge $100/hour are constantly traveling to broaden their market to a nationwide market. Of course there are magazines that pay considerably higher rates, but you’re not going to make a living appearing in Playboy, Penthouse or Hustler month after month. While I am acquainted with a model who has been published by Playboy four times (though I don't normally shoot that style) including special editions (back when they had special editions), that will only pay the rent for so long… If you’re getting $100/hour (and shooting regularly at that rate), good for you. Many models who list their rates as $100/hour haven’t logged in to MM in months (or years). That could mean that they’ve been ill, they’ve lost interest in modeling, they’re getting their bookings somewhere else, or they just stopped receiving emails and shoot offers. My guess is that, if you raise your hourly rate to $150, you’ll be doing far fewer shoots, and most of them will be open leg with less experienced photographers. While there will probably be photographers who would pay you $150/hour, one question to consider is, how often do you want to be paid to shoot? Once a year? Once a month? Once or more per week? While there are models who never discount their rates, my guess is that the majority of nude work on MM takes place at a rate that’s lower than the “published” rate (especially for models who don’t travel constantly). Even if someone is willing to pay the higher rate, you’re reducing the size of your market, and you may end up making less money overall. Of course the only way to know for sure is to raise your rates and see what happens - not so much in the first 1-3 months but afterward, after "normalcy" sets in. Aug 06 14 02:34 pm Link |
