PR Zone wrote:
...would you change your mind to ''Yes'' for Pirelli?

http://www.pirellical.com

While I''m not a model, I can say that if I were and did not want to do nudes often or with "everybody" I''d check off no, then respond positively to professional requests about it.

Daniel

Daniel Norton wrote:

While I''''m not a model, I can say that if I were and did not want to do nudes often or with "everybody" I''''d check off no, then respond positively to professional requests about it.

Daniel

Wow! Really?

Well you may not know this

When Some people say NO they mean NO!

When other people say NO they mean MAYBE?


I shoot a number of models on MM who say no to nudes but shoot them with me.  Also a couple female photographers on this site.

The lack of anominity on the Inter web is what is creating this problem.

Daniel Norton wrote:

While I''''m not a model, I can say that if I were and did not want to do nudes often or with "everybody" I''''d check off no, then respond positively to professional requests about it.

Daniel

This.

Models who shoot nudes (and check "yes" to nudes) tell me that they get tons of "unprofessional offers".  I would imagine that checking no discourages at least some of the GWTHO (GuysWithTonguesHangingOut) from sending unprofessional and often lewd propositions.

Often models who have checked "no" will agree to shoot nudes with serious photographers who have references from other models.

Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:
When Some people say NO they mean NO!

When other people say NO they mean MAYBE?

When I see "Nudes: No" I read it as "No nudes as a rule. If I''m willing to make an exception in your case, I''ll let you know. If you have to ask, then the answer is ''No.'' "

BODYSHOP  FEETURES wrote:
So far it appears that only photographers have responded.  I am curious how the models will respond.

me, personally, it means no, always.

but i could understand someone bending on that stance if the opportunity and photographer is good. 

how many "no" models would say "yes" if it was playboy?

Carl Herbert wrote:
Maybe the more important part of the question is whether you would do it with Steven Meisel shooting the photos? These calendar photos are not his most inspiring work, obviously, but any model who goes into Meisel''''s catalog of work would gain considerably by it.

But I thought one of the reasons models ticked no was because they didn''t want those images of themselves on the net for eternity.
Yes, it''s a much better photographer and the production values are probably as high as they can  be, but is the photograph intrinsically any different to to one taken by an amateur snapper who has no talent or reputation?

Someone mentioned Playboy. What difference does it make whether your tits are out for Playboy or Joe Tosser''s special internet gallery? If the content is the same, i mean.

TMG wrote:
... Yes, him great photographer and it Pirelli, so big high profile shoot. On the other hand it''''s a picture of a girl with her legs invitingly spread and her tits out...

Have you ever seen a Pirelli calendar?

BODYSHOP  FEETURES wrote:
So far it appears that only photographers have responded.  I am curious how the models will respond.

For me it means no, unless I ask you because of your work in this area, (or unless your work in this area is something and you ask me.) In order to diminish confusion I created a separate profile https://www.modelmayhem.com/3453851

Its helped.

Jen
p.s. as a photographer I am not going to ask anyone to shoot nudes who isn''t interested in modeling for them

TMG wrote:
...

Someone mentioned Playboy. What difference does it make whether your tits are out for Playboy or Joe Tosser''''s special internet gallery? If the content is the same, i mean.

You are making a leap to compare nudes as being all the same merely due to the lack of being clothed or covered.

There are more than one type of nude just as there are more than one type of clothed and yeah, it does make a huge difference.

Jen

Jen B wrote:

You are making a leap to compare nudes as being all the same merely due to the lack of being clothed or covered.

There are more than one type of nude just as there are more than one type of clothed and yeah, it does make a huge difference.

Jen

Jen you are 100% right.  It was wonderful finding Jen on MM and then being able to shoot with her 3 times.  Jen, shooting nudes with you is a great joy for me as a photographer.  and yes there is a huge difference.

Risen Phoenix

Rob Photosby wrote:

Have you ever seen a Pirelli calendar?

yes

Jen B wrote:
You are making a leap to compare nudes as being all the same merely due to the lack of being clothed or covered.

There are more than one type of nude just as there are more than one type of clothed and yeah, it does make a huge difference.

Jen

I''m not making that particular leap at all. I''m talking about the psychological content of the image, which is unaffected by factors such as budget, status of the model or photographer, circulation etc.

Dan Howell wrote:
I just read a Facebook post by a widely published tattoo model who chooses not to model nude which is her well-known policy. Nevertheless she was contacted thru her MM page by a photographer here seeking her for a nude shoot. She very politely declined reiterating her policy. The photographer replied with insulting language to the effect that she had a hang-up because of her stated policy. When she replied to correct the assumption he made. From that point he got truly insulting.

What is it with some photographers who can''''t respect boundaries? It''''s not like there is a shortage of models who do nudes...

This is true there are many models who do nudes.  He probably can''t find a model who does nudes.   

MDWM wrote:
Non-Nude models fall into 2 categories.

1-Will NOT pose nude regardless of who, what, how much it paid or advanced their career.

2- Will consider posing nude depending on who, what and how much it paid or advanced their career.

If a model says no nudity, you have to respect that they mean #1.

For the record, over the years, I have shot nudes with many, many models that publicly say that they don''t shoot nudes.  It has happened after I have gotten to know them and we have established the re-pore and trust.  Often they have asked me, for one reason or another.

The distinction though is that, when a model says that she won''t model nude, I would never send her a work solicitation where I asked her to pose nude.  "No" means "no" and we have to respect that.  Things may change, on a case by case basis, with time, but you can''t start out by asking a non-nude model to pose nude.  That is just not the way to do things.

Despite her credentials as one of the longest-serving Victoria''s Secret Angels, Allessandra Ambrosio admits to not feeling entirely comfortable with baring all. She was shot in a swimsuit for the 2003 calendar.

"I never really did a nude shoot," she said. "I''m not comfortable doing them, so I always had a G-string, or I cover my boobs so it looks like I''m nude."

(source: http://www.vogue.co.uk/news/2013/08/15/ … -interview)

I''d think this would be a good compromis.

Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:

Jen you are 100% right.  It was wonderful finding Jen on MM and then being able to shoot with her 3 times.  Jen, shooting nudes with you is a great joy for me as a photographer.  and yes there is a huge difference.

Risen Phoenix

Thank you right back! I look forward to 4 and 5 too.

BTW, yes to the gist of the OP, ticking no to nudes and shooting nudes for people like me is purely related to the photographer''s art.
Jen

TMG wrote:
I''''m not making that particular leap at all. I''''m talking about the psychological content of the image, which is unaffected by factors such as budget, status of the model or photographer, circulation etc.

Hi,
I don''t understand what you are saying here. Budget for me is not an issue, I''m a trade model right now and I do not shoot for publications, (although I am grateful to have had some of my nudes published in the March 2014 "Uncovered" magazine shot by Roger Talley in the Arizona desert. Here is one from the series, (18+)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/36486510 and I am not sure what the psychological content of my tit being out could be for you but, I am not worried, (both my parents are happy with this shot and so am I.)
Jen

MDWM wrote:
Non-Nude models fall into 2 categories.

1-Will NOT pose nude regardless of who, what, how much it paid or advanced their career.

2- Will consider posing nude depending on who, what and how much it paid or advanced their career.

If a model says no nudity, you have to respect that they mean #1.

I agree.

After reading your reply above this,TMG I understand your post now. Although art can be shot in a basement for no money and non art can be shot for a big budget glossy. The sole determinant of a photo is the photographer. Pure and simple.

Jen

neve wrote:
No nudes for me means always NO.
It doesn''t make a difference if it''s for Playboy or Steven Meisel etc.
I make no exception.

if the offer included $10 million (or whatever the Euro equivalent would be) would it still be the same answer?

(not saying that would ever happen)

Brian Scanlon wrote:

if the offer included $10 million (or whatever the Euro equivalent would be) would it still be the same answer?

(not saying that would ever happen)

The answer would be "NO" again. It''s not about the money, it''s about my personal values.

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
How about just shooting those who want to work in this genre instead of trying to bribe/coerce those who dont ?

Maybe the challenge of the chase is part of their fun in setting up such a photo shoot?  The challenge of getting a model who would not otherwise be interested in doing nudes to agree to get naked for that project (or any other project) could appeal to the photographer on several levels.

It has already been made clear that some models limitations are not set in stone and can be flexible for the right job offer, in this case the national exposure and the money could easily be enough to change someone's mind. Either or both of those might make a huge difference to a model who wants to be better known, or needs to work other jobs as well in addition to modelling to make ends meet.