Forums > General Industry > Communication with models

Photographer

Lamar Graham

Posts: 29

Seattle, Washington, US

When I am contacting models I found that there is usually a issue with them understanding my vision. I try to explain as detailed as possible and my shoots are usually extremely simple and too the point. But when I initially start explaining the details and send them reference images. Lots just stop the conversation there and no reply no contact after or they will be all for the shoot and then never show on the time we designated. No call no answering calls nothing. But yet when I do find someone to shoot with me they tell me how amazing the shoot was. How much fun they had and they like how creative I am. I guess what i'm trying to figure out is. Is it me? the way I explain my shoot or is it just bad luck with the models who i come into contact with. This goes for when models contact me for shoots and when I contact them. I would like a way to get my vision across so that the models can let me know if they are in or out without so much wasted time and effort of my behalf sharing ideas and everything.

Jan 29 15 12:59 pm Link

Photographer

ontherocks

Posts: 23575

Salem, Oregon, US

are you casting for models who are specifically into your "vision"? if you are cold-calling them maybe they don't need/want that for their portfolio? to me a TF shoot ideally should be a split of what the model wants and what the photographer wants. and sometimes we just wind up shooting what the model can do and has wardrobe for.

sometimes the shoots are just for fun but generally i think the photographer and model each hope to get something out of it that they can show off.

as far as models flaking i've had my fair share. seems like each  year there's a different crop and some crops are better than others.

Jan 29 15 01:04 pm Link

Photographer

Lamar Graham

Posts: 29

Seattle, Washington, US

I do cold call some and some contact me. But majority of the time they show genuine interest in the shoot and it will help both our ports. Its as if when the day to shoot comes or lots of times it comes time to confirm a date then I get radio silence.I guess i'm just unlucky with flakey models

Jan 29 15 01:13 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45198

San Juan Bautista, California, US

Beautiful Minds wrote:
When I am contacting models I found that there is usually a issue with them understanding my vision. I try to explain as detailed as possible and my shoots are usually extremely simple and too the point. But when I initially start explaining the details and send them reference images. Lots just stop the conversation there and no reply no contact after or they will be all for the shoot and then never show on the time we designated. No call no answering calls nothing. But yet when I do find someone to shoot with me they tell me how amazing the shoot was. How much fun they had and they like how creative I am. I guess what i'm trying to figure out is. Is it me? the way I explain my shoot or is it just bad luck with the models who i come into contact with. This goes for when models contact me for shoots and when I contact them. I would like a way to get my vision across so that the models can let me know if they are in or out without so much wasted time and effort of my behalf sharing ideas and everything.

When a model stops communication while in the planning stages, that is your indication that she is no longer interested, or something else has caused her attention to be deviated. I don't look at those models as flakes, because even in stopping communication, they are communicating.  Don't take those ones personally as it may have nothing to do with you.  However, when communicating, do consider that sometimes too much information at once might scare off some models. 

Now as for those who have indicated interest yet they still flake on you without so much as a call or apology, that is all on them.  If something happened to cause someone not to make an appointment, it is common courtesy to let that other party know!  It's sad but true that many do not practice that courtesy.

I have written about how I've accomplished reducing the "flake rate" of models for myself.  Perhaps these tips might help you?

Patrick Walberg wrote:
How about instead of asking why people flake, ask how you can reduce the chances that people will flake on you?   That's what's up!!!  borat

It's not fair to pick on just the models when photographers or any human being for that matter could flake or be late.  There is no way to prevent it from ever happening, but it is possible to reduce the chances of a model flaking or being late.  It is an extremely rare occurrence for me that a model flakes on me, but I would have back up plans in anticipation of it happening.  In fact, I try to plan for the worst, and hope for the best.  Here are some things I do that seem to help;

(1) Get the people invested in the shoot.  If money is being exchanged, she or he is more likely to show up on time!  It's a serious loss if you show up late to court or the hospital.  So if "serious loss" of money, freedom or life is involved, we show up!  It's not only money that can be exchanged, but in a trade situation the images I shoot should hopefully be worth while to the model. 

(2) Be sure you have exchanged cell phone numbers AND that directions are CLEAR.  I have an unlimited talk or text plan that allows long distance too so I don't care if I talk to someone while giving them directions.  I welcome the communication, so it does not bother me for people to call me anytime and as often as needed.  Communication is important!

(3) Have alternative plans or things to do available to you so that you are not bored (which contributes to bad moods.)  I like to have several people around so that I can put someone in right away to check lighting, warm up, etc. ... before the model gets there.  Then when the model arrives, they jump in!  It works that way in Hollywood!  If you can find something else to occupy your time, you'll feel better.

(4) Car pool or make arrangements for transportation.  This is a good thing to do, especially when it's critical to have everyone there about the same time.  Traffic becomes less of an "poor" excuse when we are together in it!  I also have noticed that models who have a driver (or an escort, or assistant riding) do tend to arrive on time more often.  It's nice to have someone helping with maps and directions.  I'll even be the driver if necessary!

(5) Use contracts or releases.  Get it in writing and ready to be signed before shooting. Don't depend on word of mouth!  If things are stated in writing, then issues can be resolved much easier.  Minor differences become major if you don't do this. 

(6) Last but not least, check references! Read comments left by others, and consider what they say about the person.   Ask questions that can reveal if they have problems that might cause them to not make it to the shoot.  I've even asked models directly over the phone;  "Is your grandma healthy?  Or are you gonna flake on me?"  - We laugh -  "Do you have reliable transportation?" is another more reasonable question to ask. 

Keeping in mind that I do mostly stock, website content, glamour, nudes and editorial, there are many times I pay models, but there are many times that I do "TFP."   For those who do "TFP" and complain ... all I can say is what does the photographer and model have to lose?  It's part of the risk you take in doing "TFP" ... if it is something that absolutely must get done, then it's better to pay the models.  Often times I call back the same models I've shot in trade to hire them for paid shoots.

I cannot over stress how important communication is in working relationships between photographers and models.  When you find someone who 'clicks" with you, then work with them again and again!  If they didn't flake on you the first time, they are less likely to do so a second.  However, even that is not guaranteed.   I keep in the back of my mind an answer to the question;  "What am I going to do if the model doesn't show up?"   It works!

Jan 29 15 01:46 pm Link

Photographer

Looknsee Photography

Posts: 26342

Portland, Oregon, US

I agree that communication is very important.

But I also think that over-communication could be a big problem, too.  I tend to assume that models are busy people, and all they need to know is what they need to do to prepare for a photo session.  Many (most) models don't want an on-going dialog with over-enthusiastic photographers , and models are not looking for their next best friend.  I figure that communicating clearly and tersely with models is a sign of respect and is often appreciated.  If/when you become bestest buddies at a later time, you can talk all you want about your ideas.  But if you give them novels to read and minutia to memorize, you are just wasting their time.

A good model is up for anything (within reason, of course) -- help them arrive prepared & explain your details while you are working.

I don't know the OP, and I don't know exactly what he's attempting to communicate, so my post here is just a shot in the dark.  Hope I didn't offend.

Jan 29 15 02:01 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45198

San Juan Bautista, California, US

Looknsee Photography wrote:
I agree that communication is very important.

But I also think that over-communication could be a big problem, too.  I tend to assume that models are busy people, and all they need to know is what they need to do to prepare for a photo session.  Many (most) models don't want an on-going dialog with over-enthusiastic photographers , and models are not looking for their next best friend.  I figure that communicating clearly and tersely with models is a sign of respect and is often appreciated.  If/when you become bestest buddies at a later time, you can talk all you want about your ideas.  But if you give them novels to read and minutia to memorize, you are just wasting their time.

A good model is up for anything (within reason, of course) -- help them arrive prepared & explain your details while you are working.

I don't know the OP, and I don't know exactly what he's attempting to communicate, so my post here is just a shot in the dark.  Hope I didn't offend.

I agree!  Over communication can be a major turn off.  I don't write a book to strangers, which are what models I've never worked with or even met are ... "strangers" and as we get to know each other with balanced communication, then we can write, talk or whatever all we want. 

It's important to try reading people as you communicate.  I do like to talk on the phone, but I am pretty good at reading if a model is not one who is comfortable with talking on the phone.  Most models are young and used to texting.  I require at least one phone call with a model before I consider a first photo session booked, but I keep those calls short and to the point for the most part.  Details are more important to have in writing through website message systems, email or texting.

Jan 29 15 02:51 pm Link

Photographer

Abbitt Photography

Posts: 13562

Washington, Utah, US

I doubt it has anything to do with models reacting to your shoot vision.   There have been hundreds of rants here stating the same experience you are having.  Filling out a model profile costs nothing and requires no experience.  Many newer models are going to get cold feet for a variety of reasons.  Some photographers only work with agency models, some only hire more expensive, more reliable traveling models, some only hire models they know are responsible by networking with other photographers.  None of those are very good options for me.

Some things I find help when contacting newer models:

1.  I accept many are going to drop communications or cancel.

2.  I require a phone number - Flaky models are generally not willing to give a phone number because they know they'll get a call when they flake.

3.  When a model drops communication, I don't chase her.  I find most such models are going to cancel in the end anyways, so better to just let them go early and waste less time on them.

4.  I don't invest anything into a shoot I'm not happy to lose if a model cancels last minute.  This is why I never hire MUAs.

5.  I plan an alternative use for my time.

6.  I require a confirmation 1 hour before the shoot.  Obviously, it means it's too late to find someone else, but at least I'm not wasting my time setting up my studio and waiting for a model who will never show.   I haven't had a true flake since doing starting this.

None of the above magically make models more responsible.  What they do is allow me to spend a lot less time on the irresponsible ones, lowering the overall time and effort spent to get to the model who is responsible.  Like you, I've found that when one gets the model who actually follows through, they are usually wonderful to work with and seem to appreciate the shoot.

Jan 29 15 03:44 pm Link

Photographer

Lamar Graham

Posts: 29

Seattle, Washington, US

Great info! Thank you everyone for giving me your thoughts on the matter.

Jan 30 15 02:43 pm Link

Photographer

Lallure Photographic

Posts: 2086

Taylors, South Carolina, US

Perhaps you are overdoing it.

Jan 30 15 03:35 pm Link

Model

Artemis Bare

Posts: 2195

San Diego, California, US

I'm guessing that you may be over sharing your vision perhaps. Getting a huge long description with multiple photos and excessive details, can be simply overwhelming. Plus I have had an occasional bad associations with photographers who have too specific of a vision.

I've spent an entire shoot stuck in the same pose while the photographer gets slowly frustrated that it's not like his "vision" and then puts an inordinate amount of blame on me for not being able to get the specific shot he wanted. I'm not saying you're in any way like that so much as maybe they're leery of being stuck in a similar situation.

Like others have said , a shot in the dark.

Jan 30 15 04:01 pm Link