Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
I've been tossing around ideas of personal responsibility and people's relationship with money. I've known people of all walks of life, with different past and present lifestyles... of course, all variable to change. A lot of people are living paycheck to paycheck, others with a savings, big or small. I'm very curious how people feel about money because the more I talk to people, I'm amazed at what the answers are as I pose these questions.
How important is money to you in a serious relationship? Before you join forces marriage/living together, whatever the scenario it is for you... are these things important or not important for you?
Do they need x in savings
Do they have to own property
Does it matter if they rent or have their own place at all
Should they have lived at least once on their own
Should they have lived at least once on their own without roommates
Do they need to make x at their job
Do they need to have a job at all
Do they need a car
Should they be debt-free
If they have debt, how much is acceptable
If they have assets, does it matter how they were acquired (divorce, trust-fund, inheritance, etc.)
Photographer
Al Lock Photography
Posts: 17024
Bangkok, Bangkok, Thailand
Jules NYC wrote:
I've been tossing around ideas of personal responsibility and people's relationship with money. I've known people of all walks of life, with different past and present lifestyles... of course, all variable to change. A lot of people are living paycheck to paycheck, others with a savings, big or small. I'm very curious how people feel about money because the more I talk to people, I'm amazed at what the answers are as I pose these questions.
How important is money to you in a serious relationship? Before you join forces marriage/living together, whatever the scenario it is for you... are these things important or not important for you?
Do they need x in savings
Do they have to own property
Does it matter if they rent or have their own place at all
Should they have lived at least once on their own
Should they have lived at least once on their own without roommates
Do they need to make x at their job
Do they need to have a job at all
Do they need a car
Should they be debt-free
If they have debt, how much is acceptable
If they have assets, does it matter how they were acquired (divorce, trust-fund, inheritance, etc.) If I'm in love with them, none of that matters. It is just part of what you have to sort out.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
( A blonde looks at George )
Elaine : Ah, George, you know, that woman just looked at you.
George : So what? What am I supposed to do?
Elaine : Go talk to her.
George : Elaine, bald men, with no jobs, and no money, who live with their parents, don't approach strange women.
Jerry : Well here's your chance to try the opposite. Instead of tuna salad and being intimidated by women, chicken salad and going right up to them.
George : Yeah, I should do the opposite, I should.
Jerry : If every instinct you have is wrong, then the opposite would have to be right.
George : Yes, I will do the opposite. I used to sit here and do nothing, and regret it for the rest of the day, so now I will do the opposite, and I will do
something!
( He goes over to the woman )
George : Excuse me, I couldn't help but notice that you were looking in my direction.
Victoria : Oh, yes I was, you just ordered the same exact lunch as me.
( G takes a deep breath )
George : My name is George. I'm unemployed and I live with my parents.
Victoria : I'm Victoria. Hi.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Al Lock Photography wrote:
If I'm in love with them, none of that matters. It is just part of what you have to sort out. Say a person doesn't have a job, no savings & no car. Does that make them irresponsible?
Photographer
Evan Hiltunen
Posts: 4162
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Jules NYC wrote:
Say a person doesn't have a job, no savings & no car. Does that make them irresponsible? Not necessarily.
Do they have a history of striving, and moving forward, or are they chronically jobless and broke?
You would be amazed how quickly a series of setbacks can wipe out a person's resources (accidents, medical problems, theft, etc.).
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Evan Hiltunen wrote:
Not necessarily.
Do they have a history of striving, and moving forward, or are they chronically jobless and broke?
You would be amazed how quickly a series of setbacks can wipe out a person's resources (accidents, medical problems, theft, etc.). I agree!
There is a HUGE difference between someone who has never worked a day in their life or the example you cited (chronically jobless & broke) or dealing with a setback.
It's also about priorities as well. If you haven't seen someone in an autonomous situation and meet when they are in such period, it can ambiguous. History of anything is always best to look at.
Model
Dea and the Beast
Posts: 4796
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Jules NYC wrote:
Say a person doesn't have a job, no savings & no car. Does that make them irresponsible? Are we talking still -in -their -early -twenties -we're -invincible-24-hour-party people or
Folk who are in their thirtsomethings and kinda ought to have realiz9ed by now they won't go on living forever and that a 401k has nothing to do with hiking?
The variables are infinite.
Artist/Painter
Hunter GWPB
Posts: 8260
King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, US
Sooner or later, it becomes an issue. Not necessarily a deal breaker.
Model
Model Sarah
Posts: 40987
Columbus, Ohio, US
It isn't.
Does it make things easier in 'Murica? Sure. But it isn't important.
Photographer
alessandro2009
Posts: 8109
Florence, Toscana, Italy
Hunter GWPB wrote:
Sooner or later, it becomes an issue. +1
Photographer
scrymettet
Posts: 33239
Quebec, Quebec, Canada
Hunter GWPB wrote:
Sooner or later, it becomes an issue. Not necessarily a deal breaker. yup.
Money or lack of induce stress and stress is a relationship issue.
but ,normally, good communication should smooth it, good legal papers too
Model
Koryn
Posts: 39496
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Most of the people I've been involved with have lived in less than $30,000 per year. My longest relationship ever was with someone who'd recently declared bankruptcy. I have always been used to paying my own part on dates, and having to scratch to put some money aside just to do weekend activities with someone - but, ultimately, I don't really give a shit. The live-in relationships I've had were also with people who worked, but made very little money, and I'm kind of used to just getting by in relationships. It is what it is.
The exception to that was my last attempt at a relationship (which ended a few months ago), which was with someone who was upper middle class, or "very successful" in my general worldview. I did not know he was better off when we first started dating, though I was surprised to discover he had the income to live alone, in his own place, in Boston (rather than living with roommates or family). It was nice to be taken out, and "treated" to things. Last fall, he "took me shopping" for new clothes, because I honestly don't have the budget most of the time to invest in clothes and whatnot. I'd never been taken shopping before, and always bought a few things here and there at thrift shops. It was nice, but it really didn't matter. Basically, he broke up with me because I wanted sex all the time, was "not sexually compatible," and he just ....wasn't a very sexual person. Clearly, in the end, that stuff mattered a lot more than finances.
When it really comes down to it, my relationships with broke-ass, poor-as-fuck people have been better - not because of the money, but because of actual connection, sexual compatibility and caring. I'm 32 - after many years of rabble rousing, I'd really like to finally settle down with someone, though it doesn't appear that will be happening any time soon. I don't care how much money they have, as long as they're employed doing SOMETHING, are smart and don't take themselves too seriously.
I think the thing that I respect the most is when someone is willing to jump headfirst into things they care about, take risks (even if it involves financial risk) and live without fear. Often, living that way comes along with being poor and having nothing to lose.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Koryn wrote:
Most of the people I've been involved with have lived in less than $30,000 per year. My longest relationship ever was with someone who'd recently declared bankruptcy. I have always been used to paying my own part on dates, and having to scratch to put some money aside just to do weekend activities with someone - but, ultimately, I don't really give a shit. The live-in relationships I've had were also with people who worked, but made very little money, and I'm kind of used to just getting by in relationships. It is what it is.
The exception to that was my last attempt at a relationship (which ended a few months ago), which was with someone who was upper middle class, or "very successful" in my general worldview. I did not know he was better off when we first started dating, though I was surprised to discover he had the income to live alone, in his own place, in Boston (rather than living with roommates or family). It was nice to be taken out, and "treated" to things. Last fall, he "took me shopping" for new clothes, because I honestly don't have the budget most of the time to invest in clothes and whatnot. I'd never been taken shopping before, and always bought a few things here and there at thrift shops. It was nice, but it really didn't matter. Basically, he broke up with me because I wanted sex all the time, was "not sexually compatible," and he just ....wasn't very a very sexual person. Clearly, in the end, that stuff mattered a lot more than finances.
When it really comes down to it, my relationships with broke-ass, poor-as-fuck people have been better - not because of the money, but because of actual connection and caring. I'm 32 - after many years of rabble rousing, I'd really like to finally settle down with someone, though it doesn't appear that will be happening any time soon. I don't care how much money they have, as long as they're employed doing SOMETHING, are smart and don't take themselves too seriously.
I think the thing that I respect the most is when someone is willing to jump headfirst into things they care about, take risks (even if it involves financial risk) and live without fear. Often, living that way comes along with being poor and having nothing to lose. I'm with you right there.
I think when people dove in and had a bad experience, the last thing they want to do it to take anything lightly (not speaking of myself here). I'm all about swan dives but with the right person.
I never had the experience of 'let's do this right now!' venture. That would have been exciting for me, but alas we don't always get our wish-list. I figure if someone is the more slow and steady type (esp. after a miserable experience), it all doesn't matter over the scheme of things if an entire life-time is at hand.
Sexual and emotional connectivity certainly a MUST for anything serious for sure.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
scrymettet wrote:
yup.
Money or lack of induce stress and stress is a relationship issue.
but ,normally, good communication should smooth it, good legal papers too What about pre-nups?
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Amadea T wrote:
Folk who are in their thirtysomethings and kinda ought to have realized by now they won't go on living forever and that a 401k has nothing to do with hiking?
The variables are infinite. ha ha
True!
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Don't you think a person that has a constant stream of money coming in for life would not be privy to the stresses/reality of a person whose income is not guaranteed for life?
I'm not talking a lotto ticket here.
Lay-offs/getting fired/contracts ending
Freelance - little work/slow period
Not everyone has a steady 9-5 that they feel secure enough in to work for 20+ years...30+ years, etc.
Photographer
scrymettet
Posts: 33239
Quebec, Quebec, Canada
Jules NYC wrote:
What about pre-nups? yup and mortgage , rent, any big items purchase etc.
fight can gets ugly at the breakup.
qui vis pacem para bellum
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
scrymettet wrote:
yup and mortgage , rent, any big items purchase etc.
fight can gets ugly at the breakup.
qui vis pacem para bellum ha ha
So kind of like being a solider I guess
![https://static.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/MjAxMy04ZDUzMTk1MmU1NTU5MjRi.png]()
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 37171
Columbus, Ohio, US
Jules NYC wrote:
Say a person doesn't have a job, no savings & no car. Does that make them irresponsible? Only when they don't have a trust fund. 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Cherrystone wrote:
Only when they don't have a trust fund. I'd think that would be the epitome of being irresponsible, even if they spent it wisely.
How can you understand responsibility if you had no idea what it takes to be responsible?
On that note, one can be a responsible person and have no money (life circumstance/lay-off, etc.) or have money and be irresponsible with it.
There's all variations of financial and personal responsibility.
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 37171
Columbus, Ohio, US
Jules NYC wrote:
I'd think that would be the epitome of being irresponsible, even if they spent it wisely.
How can you understand responsibility if you had no idea what it takes to be responsible? Ummm....if they were being wise with it, I'd guess someone knows something about responsibility.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Cherrystone wrote:
Ummm....if they were being wise with it, I'd guess someone knows something about responsibility. True, but never having the knowledge of understanding what it takes to make it is another story.
Take a trust-fund off of the table.
If someone is getting a secured amount of money for life (through whatever means) don't you think it's somewhat arrogant to criticize someone when they experience a job-loss, downturn of any kind?
Photographer
Lohkee
Posts: 14028
Maricopa, Arizona, US
I dunno if money is really a relationship issue so much as it is IMHO a personal one. Some people need very little, while others need a lot in order to feel happy and secure.
Personally, I'm probably somewhere in between. As long as the bills are paid and I can take Hue out for dinner once or twice a month, I'm pretty much good-to-go. Basically, I don't need/want toys, lead a very simple life, and really don't give a rat's ass if people are "impressed" with me (or, in the context of this conversation, what I have). Hue, OTOH, is sort of conflicted. Her brothers and sisters all have big homes, fancy cars, a closets full of nice (expensive) clothes that they never seem to actually wear. Chuckles. Her sisters end up giving them away when they run out of room to put stuff. Most still have the tags attached. They also work their asses to the bone 7/days/week. Frankly, their work ethic and sheer freaking endurance impress me far more than their McMansions, Mercedes SUV's, and clothing labels ever will. Sometimes I think (and maybe I am completely wrong on this) Hue feels she is somehow "less-than" her siblings until I point out that we owe nobody nothing and she has the one thing they want more than anything but do not have - FREEDOM! Everything she has is paid for in cash (even if it might take a while to save up enough for something she wants) and she doesn't have to put up with any crap on a daily basis from some asshole with a big ego. Chuckles. Being "poor" is a very relative thing.
Guess what I'm really trying to say is that if both people are on the same page (no money, little money, lots of money) then money shouldn't be an issue.
I duuno. I'm babbling. I still need another two cups of coffee.
Photographer
Lohkee
Posts: 14028
Maricopa, Arizona, US
Jules NYC wrote:
Take a trust-fund off of the table.
If someone is getting a secured amount of money for life (through whatever means) don't you think it's somewhat arrogant to criticize someone when they experience a job-loss, downturn of any kind? In principal, yes. In reality, not so much. It depends on WHY people experience these things. Sometimes people are just collateral damage. Sometimes they ARE the reason for their own demise (as it were).
Model
BeatnikDiva
Posts: 14859
Fayetteville, Arkansas, US
A man needs to be able to support himself without the necessity of relying on a partner to do it for him.
Can't pay your bills? Can't cover your debts? Lying about it? I'm not doing it...buh bye.
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
I think that there is the possibility that for some young, attractive women, a substantially older gentleman's looks and desirability is parallel to the amount of financial stability and gift-spoiling ability of said older man... 
Photographer
Lohkee
Posts: 14028
Maricopa, Arizona, US
udor wrote:
I think that there is the possibility that for some young, attractive women, a substantially older gentleman's looks and desirability is parallel to the amount of financial stability and gift-spoiling ability of said older man... Chuckles. I'm not so sure looks are part of the equation.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
BeatnikDiva wrote:
A man needs to be able to support himself without the necessity of relying on a partner to do it for him.
Can't pay your bills? Can't cover your debts? Lying about it? I'm not doing it...buh bye. Don't you think the same should apply to a woman?
With a pre-nup a woman or man can end up in the exact same place they were before they got married. Imagine being with someone a 10/20/30 years and all of a sudden, *poof*! Later!
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
udor wrote:
I think that there is the possibility that for some young, attractive women, a substantially older gentleman's looks and desirability is parallel to the amount of financial stability and gift-spoiling ability of said older man... Then said older man trades her in for a new model.
ha ha
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 26342
Portland, Oregon, US
How Important Is Money In A Serious Relationship?
Interesting question. As a contrary thinker, I have some odd thoughts on the matter. In random order:
... The amount of the money is interesting, but how one got the money is much more significant to me.
... To me, what impacts the relationship most is how one manages one's money.
--- Some people take it as a challenge to spend every penny they've got.
--- Some people save consistently, regardless of their income.
--- Some people are happy to go far into debt to maintain a lifestyle.
... I also pay attention to what spend their money on.
... How hard one works, and how disciplined that work is, is revealing.
... Finally, one's work-life balance is very interesting, too.
So, in short, money itself is interesting, but how one handles one's money is much more revealing.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Looknsee Photography wrote:
How Important Is Money In A Serious Relationship?
Interesting question. As a contrary thinker, I have some odd thoughts on the matter. In random order:
... The amount of the money is interesting, but how one got the money is much more significant to me.
... To me, what impacts the relationship most is how one manages one's money.
--- Some people take it as a challenge to spend every penny they've got.
--- Some people save consistently, regardless of their income.
--- Some people are happy to go far into debt to maintain a lifestyle.
... I also pay attention to what spend their money on.
... How hard one works, and how disciplined that work is, is revealing.
... Finally, one's work-life balance is very interesting, too.
So, in short, money itself is interesting, but how one handles one's money is much more revealing. True!
The people that go into debt to maintain a lifestyle are dangerous! Like being with an inexperienced gambler.
Here's a movie about the very concept -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2Y3GoN2PGw
Model
Dea and the Beast
Posts: 4796
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Jules NYC wrote:
Don't you think a person that has a constant stream of money coming in for life would not be privy to the stresses/reality of a person whose income is not guaranteed for life?
I'm not talking a lotto ticket here.
Lay-offs/getting fired/contracts ending
Freelance - little work/slow period
Not everyone has a steady 9-5 that they feel secure enough in to work for 20+ years...30+ years, etc. Umm...about that "guaranteed paycheck.."
My husband got laid off from the US navy after nearly 12 years. Class action to commence but aside from this, that hasn't happened since 'nam.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Hunter GWPB wrote:
Sooner or later, it becomes an issue. Not necessarily a deal breaker. Tell me the issues.
Curious!
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Amadea T wrote:
Umm...about that "guaranteed paycheck.."
My husband got laid off from the US navy after nearly 12 years. Class action to commence but aside from this, that hasn't happened since 'nam. Wow, and served his country and all!!!
Photographer
Lallure Photographic
Posts: 2086
Taylors, South Carolina, US
That's going to vary tremendously, in answers. It will be different for almost everyone.
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 26342
Portland, Oregon, US
Looknsee Photography wrote:
How Important Is Money In A Serious Relationship?
Interesting question. As a contrary thinker, I have some odd thoughts on the matter. In random order:
... The amount of the money is interesting, but how one got the money is much more significant to me.
... To me, what impacts the relationship most is how one manages one's money.
--- Some people take it as a challenge to spend every penny they've got.
--- Some people save consistently, regardless of their income.
--- Some people are happy to go far into debt to maintain a lifestyle.
... I also pay attention to what spend their money on.
... How hard one works, and how disciplined that work is, is revealing.
... Finally, one's work-life balance is very interesting, too.
So, in short, money itself is interesting, but how one handles one's money is much more revealing. Jules NYC wrote:
True!
The people that go into debt to maintain a lifestyle are dangerous! Like being with an inexperienced gambler.
Here's a movie about the very concept -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2Y3GoN2PGw How much money (net worth or savings) a person has is interesting -- however, how much debt a person has can be a deal breaker:
Savings is freedom;
Debt is slavery!
The fact that someone has debt, in itself, is just a yellow flag. After all, many of us have student loans and/or mortgages. But of interest is whether we have a plan to pay down that debt and whether we stick to the plan. If people just make minimum mortgage payments -- well, that's okay, but if a person also takes the opportunity to pay down their principal, that tells you something. On the other hand, if someone just carries a max'd out credit card while spending money on fancy vacations, new cars every year, the latest brand name toys, etc. -- that's someone I'd stay uninvolved with. These kinds of people can drag you down.
Photographer
Connor Photography
Posts: 8539
Newark, Delaware, US
Jules NYC wrote:
I've been tossing around ideas of personal responsibility and people's relationship with money. I've known people of all walks of life, with different past and present lifestyles... of course, all variable to change. A lot of people are living paycheck to paycheck, others with a savings, big or small. I'm very curious how people feel about money because the more I talk to people, I'm amazed at what the answers are as I pose these questions.
How important is money to you in a serious relationship? Before you join forces marriage/living together, whatever the scenario it is for you... are these things important or not important for you?
Do they need x in savings
Do they have to own property
Does it matter if they rent or have their own place at all
Should they have lived at least once on their own
Should they have lived at least once on their own without roommates
Do they need to make x at their job
Do they need to have a job at all
Do they need a car
Should they be debt-free
If they have debt, how much is acceptable
If they have assets, does it matter how they were acquired (divorce, trust-fund, inheritance, etc.) None of these are important, I am more concerned about what the person will bring to the table in the relationship in the immediately future and 20 years from now. But if the person is a loser of all their life, there is a pattern that you need to be prepared for. The question is why would you want to hang out with someone who does not share the same value as you.
If it is just a short term relationship to satisfy the lust, just be open and enjoy the time together and all. No one get hurt.
More than 35 years ago, it was easier then. My wife (GF) and I were young, poor, had no car, but not much in student loan, were single, no baggage and full of ambition We graduated just two years apart from each other. When we got married we had nothing, it did not take long for us to live comfortably with a purchased house in Westchester County, NY and 2 new cars. One of our incomes would be more than enough to support the whole family indefinitely, the rest would just go to saving and investment. Since we started working 35 years ago, we would never worry about our careers. We were lucky but we were (are) also good in what we were trained for, we picked who we like to work for.
I understand in today's environment, it is harder for young men and young women to get ahead. This is particular too for girls. They need to focus on their career and having a family.
What is the take home message, lay a good foundation so you can build on. Develop your passion for your choosing career, so you don't need to work in the rest of your life Love will come soon enough.
Photographer
Lightcraft Studio
Posts: 13682
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
I've known a few couples where there was a mismatch in financial situations, but in most it wound up working out in the end.
In one case, the guy had been a "bad" teen and his dad sent him off to do backbreaking oil rig work in Texas to try and teach him some discipline. Somehow, he met and married a very successful woman who was an international patent attorney. She saw something in him, and supported him in a very nice lifestyle while he broke into the business world.
Eventually, he worked his way up to being CEO of a small firm, but was still only making a flat $100K/year. He busted his butt for ten years, and she footed most of the bills (expensive house, etc.) and did very well for the company... took them public, and made them very profitable.
They never had kids, nor had any desire to have them. Finally, he left the job and cashed out his stock options and cleared about $400 million. They both retired and have dedicated their lives to just traveling and enjoying life.., we almost never see them any more because they're in such a different orbit than we're in... but we're happy for them just the same.
So, if your potential mate has the right qualities, then a mismatch financially may not be an issue... it may require patience and work on your part before your mate comes into his own, but it is possible if the love is there.
Artist/Painter
JJMiller
Posts: 807
Buffalo, New York, US
Jules NYC wrote:
Tell me the issues.
Curious! Specific issues, who knows- probably someone is spending what the other considers too much on something. Money is the biggest cause of strife in relationships, at least according to every study done on the subject.
Photographer
Connor Photography
Posts: 8539
Newark, Delaware, US
Looknsee Photography wrote:
So, in short, money itself is interesting, but how one handles one's money is much more revealing. Yeah, I don't hire anyone who is living paycheck by paycheck. If I found that out later, I will take him or her out for lunch to help them to straight out their mess. One must live within their means. Mishap, illness or family is different issue.
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