Looknsee Photography wrote:
I've refined my song:  As I've stated (and as you've ignored) multiple time:  The best way to deal with flakes is to avoid them.  Further, I say that if a photographer doesn't want to avoid flakes, I can't be sympathetic when he finds one.  For those not willing to be selective, it's like blaming the sun for your sunburn.  You should know better.

It is absolutely impossible to avoid all incidence of flakes.

I've presented some great ideas to consider to reduce the incidence of models flaking.

It seems impossible to avoid threads about flakes on Modelmayhem too!   

Tony Lawrence wrote:
My mother one of the wisest people I've known told me.   Nothing beats failure like trying.   Giving up is easy and you aren't insane.   One of our members is fond of saying when and if flakes happen its the photographers fault.   I disagree and put the onus on the model.   Keep tying you'll be fine.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
I've refined my song:  As I've stated (and as you've ignored) multiple time:  The best way to deal with flakes is to avoid them.  Further, I say that if a photographer doesn't want to avoid flakes, I can't be sympathetic when he finds one.  For those not willing to be selective, it's like blaming the sun for your sunburn.  You should know better.

Bringing this over from the other page ...  this is why I don't mind "flake" threads. 

"Dudes!"  (...  and dudettes!)  "Stop the fighting!"  There are NO absolutes when it comes to dealing with the human species ... well except that we are all going to be dead someday.   "I've got a buddy. He's the last one to let you down. He's a mortician."   So listen up! 

Absolutely none of us are immune to the possibility of a model flaking on us.  Heck, photographers flake too!  So you had a model that was confirmed flake on you.  I remember my last "no show/no call" flake on March 21st, 2006 ... and she was a model I had shot with previously.  She straight up vanished!  It was for a car show, and I had plenty of back up, so she was not that badly missed.  What I preach is communication, although I always keep in the back of my mind that "a flake" could happen to me at anytime. 

In fact, I try to plan for the worst, and hope for the best.  Here are some things I do that seem to help;

(1) Get the people invested in the shoot.  If money is being exchanged, she or he is more likely to show up on time!  It's a serious loss if you show up late to court or the hospital.  So if "serious loss" of money, freedom or life is involved, we show up!  It's not only money that can be exchanged, but in a trade situation the images I shoot should hopefully be worth while to the model.  Money is NOT the only motivator!  If they like you and your work, other factors like that are key to being "invested!"  Consider what they get out of the shoot.

(2) Be sure you have exchanged cell phone numbers AND that directions are CLEAR.  I have an unlimited talk and text plan that allows long distance too so I don't care if I talk to someone while giving them directions.  I welcome the communication, so it does not bother me for people to call me anytime and as often as needed.   I always speak on the phone at least once with every model before confirming the shoot!  Communication is important! 

(3) Have alternative plans or things to do available to you so that you are not bored (which contributes to bad moods.)  I like to have several people around so that I can put someone in right away to check lighting, warm up, etc. ... before the model gets there.  Then when the model arrives, they jump in!  It works that way in Hollywood!  If you can find something else to occupy your time, you'll feel better.

(4) Car pool or make arrangements for transportation.  This is a good thing to do, especially when it's critical to have everyone there about the same time.  Traffic becomes less of an "poor" excuse when we are together in it!  I also have noticed that models who have a driver (or an escort, or assistant riding) do tend to arrive on time more often.  It's nice to have someone helping with maps and directions.  I'll even be the driver if necessary!  Transportation is the number one reason many people are late to work! 

(5) Use contracts or releases.  Get it in writing and ready to be signed before shooting. Don't depend on word of mouth!  If things are stated in writing, then issues can be resolved much easier.  Minor differences become major if you don't do this. Send a copy in advance of a shoot.  Don't assume it's a done deal!

(6) Last but not least, check references! Read comments left by others, and consider what they say about the person.   Ask questions that can reveal if they have problems that might cause them to not make it to the shoot.  I've even asked models directly over the phone;  "Is your grandma healthy?  Or are you gonna flake on me?"  - We laugh -  "Do you have reliable transportation?" is another more reasonable question to ask. 

Keeping in mind that I do mostly stock, website content, glamour, nudes and editorial, there are many times I pay models, but there are many more times that I do "TFP."   For those who do "TFP" and complain ... all I can say is what does the photographer and model have to lose?  It's part of the risk you take in doing "TFP" ... if it is something that absolutely must get done, then it's better to pay the models.  Often times I call back the same models I've shot in trade to hire them for paid shoots.

I cannot over stress how important communication is in working relationships between photographers and models.  When you find someone who 'clicks" with you, then work with them again and again!  If they didn't flake on you the first time, they are less likely to do so a second.  However, even that is not guaranteed.   I keep in the back of my mind an answer to the question;  "What am I going to do if the model doesn't show up?"   Over a 30 year period, I can still count the number of flakes I've had on two hands.  It works!

Looknsee Photography wrote:
I've refined my song:  As I've stated (and as you've ignored) multiple time:  The best way to deal with flakes is to avoid them.  Further, I say that if a photographer doesn't want to avoid flakes, I can't be sympathetic when he finds one.  For those not willing to be selective, it's like blaming the sun for your sunburn.  You should know better.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I get the impression the OP pays models.   ...   I do know there is NOTHING I can do to make someone not flake because its not up to me.

It is annoying when you (willfully?) misinterpret what I say:
...  I agree that simply paying models is no guarantee of reliability.
...  I agree that some people are basically unreliable and won't show up.
...  But anyone who has been around for a while should know that some models are unreliable, and
...  If flakes bother you, find ways to avoid them.

If you choose not to be selective, not to attempt to avoid flakes, then no one should be surprised if/when flakes happen to you.  Why should I be overly sympathetic?  Like I said in the analogy above -- we know that being out in the sun for a long time can lead to sunburns.  Should we blame the sun solely for that sunburn?  I say, no -- sunburns can be easily avoided, and if you choose not to avoid a sunburn, a good deal of that suffering is on you.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
What I find a tad insufferable about you is you look down on photographers who start threads like these.   That's why I post a counterpoint.

What you find insufferable about me is not an appropriate topic for a thread post.

In addition, I don't look down on photographers who start threads like this -- I just am not sympathetic for those sunburns.  I assume that anyone who starts a thread, wants a discussion, and he or she runs the risk that someone might not agree with her or him.  The debate should be healthy -- that's the purpose of these forums, in my book.  You say that there is nothing that can be done.  I say that if flakes bother you, do a better job at avoiding them, and I offer constructive suggestions on how to avoid them. 

Tony Lawrence wrote:
If a model makes a appointment or agrees to a day and time.   She or he should show or cancel with plenty of notice if possible.   No one in my view should race around and check up on adults.

Yeah, sure, I can agree.  Yeah, the sun will burn your skin, and some models will flake on you.  Whatcha gonna do?  (For the record, I clearly document the terms of a sitting's agreement, and I don't bother with confirmation calls or e-mails or texts after that.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
If a model doesn't come I move on but I fully get those who use MM forums to discuss how they feel.  Most of those we shoot are 18 or older.   Old enough to know they should call, text or email to cancel and that just not showing is wrong.   Blaming those they did it too simply adds insult to injury.    You keep using the word sympathetic.   Who asked you to be sympathetic but do we have to be pricks.   (note:  I did not call you a prick)

Some threads are just rants about how the OP feels.  Some threads are asking what we should or would do.  But by posting on a forum, many (most) of these threads feel like a plea for sympathy.  Regardless, I have a contribution to these threads -- take it or leave it, it's no skin off of my nose. 

It sure feels like you are calling me a prick -- you posts on these threads seem to address me more than they address the thread topic.

So, in your next tirade, I challenge you to focus on the thread topic and avoid further personal attacks (implied or explicit).  Do you not think that it is possible to avoid many/most flaking models?  How would you / could you avoid them, given your financial considerations?  Or should you just work with anyone & take your chances?

Looknsee Photography wrote:
-Same argument-

Tony Lawrence wrote:
-Same argument-

What I find hilarious is that we are ALL on the same page when it comes down to brass knuckles, yet you both still keep going at it on every new "flake thread" with a circular argument.  One is not more correct than another.  Can we at least agree that communication is important?

I have NO "feeling" about this topic.  Although I understand the anguish of having been flaked on, I certainly see the advantages in sharing the methods I use to reduce the chances of flaking.  I look for the positives.   You guys do bring positive opinions, but there is no perfect World, not a perfect solution to this issue of human nature.  People sometimes flake.  Live and let live!

Shei  P wrote:
yeah, pretty much SOL

That is pretty well it. I have networked with several other photographers so we inform each-other if this happens. That is about it. It has happened to me 2 or 3 times in about 10 years.

robert b mitchell wrote:
That is pretty well it. I have networked with several other photographers so we inform each-other if this happens. That is about it. It has happened to me 2 or 3 times in about 10 years.

That is a great record!  Nothing to complain about there. 

Although I have photographed thousands of musical events from concerts, and festivals to club shows, there is one that shall haunt me forever.  Just before the release of her smash hit album 'Private Dancer' ... I flaked on Tina Turner! I was a "house" photographer for a very popular club in Santa Cruz when she was booked there to perform shortly after her break up and divorce from Ike.   I had two comp tickets, my cameras ready, along with film and full access around the entire staging area of the club.  It was a rainy stormy night, and my girlfriend and I decided to stay home.  I passed the ticket on to another couple ... thinking "Oh well, I can catch her next time she comes through town and plays that club again."   

Well that was 1983 .. Private Dancer came out in 1984 ... this is the show I missed!  Not the same venue, but I would have been able to get just as close and for the entire show.  https://youtu.be/Y2S-i3min28  Yes, I've partied with some rockstars at that venue, seen many great shows in my lifetime.  No regrets on the shows I missed ... except for Tina's show that one stormy night.  I'm the one who flaked on her.  The "girl" I was with then means nothing to me now.  My missing her show means nothing to Tina Turner, but it means a heart breaking loss for me everytime I think about it.  ......   I try not to think about it.

It's not the models who miss shooting with us that are important.  It's the ones we do get to shoot with!  Focus on the positive!

Robb Mann wrote:
Well, the site isn't called 'ModelMayhem' for no reason...

Genius is the ability to see things others can't.

Personality Imaging wrote:
Avoid facebook models like the plague.  I've been 100% ok with mm models,  0% with facebook models.

Now that is funny!  My "flake rate" is at worst 5% and it doesn't matter at all where I found them from.   The vast majority of models I shoot are Internet Models with profiles on multiple places.  Many have profiles on Modelmayhem, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and/or Tumblr.  The place where I find communication to be absolutely the best when it comes to messaging is Facebook!   Details can be exchanged in seconds there!!  Then communication will take place on cellphones to solidify times, dates, and confirm the shoot. 


I do not have a "100% ok" rate with anything.  I'm at 95% most of the time.  If everything were perfect, this would be a boring World!   I would never avoid working with any models just because they are on Facebook.  I would never avoid working with models because of them being on Modelmayhem too.  Most are on both sites.  Caution;  "Successful results may vary depending on user."

robert b mitchell wrote:
I have networked with several other photographers so we inform each-other if this happens. That is about it. It has happened to me 2 or 3 times in about 10 years.

I do similar, with even better results, but if I state my record, I'll get called "insufferable".

In any case, if a model flakes on a photographer in our circle, that's a yellow flag.  If a model flakes on multiple photographers in our circle, she will find that she'll stop getting offers for work.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
My "flake rate" is at worst 5% and it doesn't matter at all where I found them from.

For the sake of discussion, I'll ask...

Why do you suppose that some photographers have a better flake rate than others, especially when they are working with the same pool of models?

Looknsee Photography wrote:

For the sake of discussion, I'll ask...

Why do you suppose that some photographers have a better flake rate than others, especially when they are working with the same pool of models?

It's simple.  We are all different.  If you were to use my exact methods for example, you may have different results.  You could move me to another location and I may have differing results from my old location.  The difference could be due to a different location with a different pool of talent to choose from.  So location, the pool of talent, and the person vetting from the pool of talent will all have at least slight variances.  There is no fool proof method of vetting models to prevent 100% from ever flaking on you.

Looknsee Photography wrote:

For the sake of discussion, I'll ask...

Why do you suppose that some photographers have a better flake rate than others, especially when they are working with the same pool of models?

I know you didn't ask me but I'll chime in.   Why does one business that offers similar product to another succeed and the other fail.?  Without knowing exactly what the one that fails did wrong how can we know.   When I joined MM there was a female photographer who I suspected was a well known NY shooter.   I emailed her from outside of MM and I was right.   She was offering TF shoots as a way to give back.   This is a person with published tears in W, Vogue and other magazines.  She removed her profile after a few weeks and I asked her what was going on.   She told me she was done after a few flakes and last minute cancellations.   

Also consider that photographers don't always share their flakes or issues on MM.   I attended a group shoot with a very good glamor photographer as host where three of the five scheduled models didn't show or call.   They were being paid.   I don't concern myself with why models flake.   I just keep it moving.  What I find disturbing is this subtle and sometimes overt attack on photographers.   Did you ask others about her for example or how do I know you're telling the truth or I pay my models and because you have the copyright you should or the worst.   I don't have this problem so you must be doing something wrong.

Here's a well known secret.   One of the reasons clients and pro shooters use agencies for models is because if models flake or cancel last minute they can be replaced quickly.   Saving the client money and time.   These are often jobs that pay several hundred to thousands  and sometimes those talents flake.   When adults make arrangements to shoot or accept my offer I fully expect them to follow through.   I don't check up on them.   If they don't come I move on and don't book them again.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

I know you didn't ask me but I'll chime in.   Why does one business that offers similar product to another succeed and the other fail.?  Without knowing exactly what the one that fails did wrong how can we know.   When I joined MM there was a female photographer who I suspected was a well known NY shooter.   I emailed her from outside of MM and I was right.   She was offering TF shoots as a way to give back.   This is a person with published tears in W, Vogue and other magazines.  She removed her profile after a few weeks and I asked her what was going on.   She told me she was done after a few flakes and last minute cancellations.   

Also consider that photographers don't always share their flakes or issues on MM.   I attended a group shoot with a very good glamor photographer as host where three of the five scheduled models didn't show or call.   They were being paid.   I don't concern myself with why models flake.   I just keep it moving.  What I find disturbing is this subtle and sometimes overt attack on photographers.   Did you ask others about her for example or how do I know you're telling the truth or I pay my models and because you have the copyright you should or the worst.   I don't have this problem so you must be doing something wrong.

Here's a well known secret.   One of the reasons clients and pro shooters use agencies for models is because if models flake or cancel last minute they can be replaced quickly.   Saving the client money and time.   These are often jobs that pay several hundred to thousands  and sometimes those talents flake.   When adults make arrangements to shoot or accept my offer I fully expect them to follow through.   I don't check up on them.   If they don't come I move on and don't book them again.

Asking why one business fails while another "seemingly" similar one fails has to do with so many variables ...  it's like why does one photographer have a high percentage of flakes while another has a low percentage.   Just too many possible possible reasons.  The reason photographers have fewer problems with agency models is simple ... the agency does the vetting of the models.   I've never gone through an agency ever!  I do my own vetting. 

Drop the rotten ones, and keep working with the great ones!  Sometimes it's very important to try working multiple times with those who prove themselves reliable.  That may lead to even better things.  I just had a very successful shoot this afternoon into the evening with a 18 year old starting out with modeling. Her mother is a good friend who modeled for me when I first started out many years ago.  That is the ultimate compliment when those I came up with shooting as models bring me their kids to photograph years later!  I'm so thrilled, I up late working on the images and am posting one right now into my avator.  Watch for it!

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I don't concern myself with why models flake.   I just keep it moving.

So, are you claiming that your technique is perfect and there is no room for improvement?  Are you saying that there is no point in attempting to protect yourself from agreeing to work with flakes?

Tony Lawrence wrote:
What I find disturbing is this subtle and sometimes overt attack on photographers.

Hey, me, too!  Then again, no one is attacking photographers, unless you think offering requested suggestions is considered an attack

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Did you ask others about her for example or how do I know you're telling the truth or I pay my models and because you have the copyright you should or the worst.   I don't have this problem so you must be doing something wrong.

The "how do I know you're telling the truth" thing is grossly out of context and not part of this thread.

The "I pay my models" is not only out of context, it is not something I suggest.  What i SAY is that a photographer might have better success by selected experienced models with a good track record of reliability, and that sometimes means paying them.

I do suggest that if the image has value to the TF* model, then the image has value, and therefore the copyright has value.  What's wrong with that?  I also go further by observing that there are lots of TF*-created images with photographer's watermarks, but such images rarely identify the model.  Do you disagree?

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Here's a well known secret.

Now, THAT's an oxymoron!

Tony Lawrence wrote:
One of the reasons clients and pro shooters use agencies for models is because if models flake or cancel last minute they can be replaced quickly.   Saving the client money and time.

So, are you suggesting that photographers use agency, which is akin to photographers paying for models?

Looknsee Photography wrote:

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I don't concern myself with why models flake.   I just keep it moving.

So, are you claiming that your technique is perfect and there is no room for improvement?  Are you saying that there is no point in attempting to protect yourself from agreeing to work with flakes?

Tony Lawrence wrote:
What I find disturbing is this subtle and sometimes overt attack on photographers.

Hey, me, too!  Then again, no one is attacking photographers, unless you think offering requested suggestions is considered an attack

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Did you ask others about her for example or how do I know you're telling the truth or I pay my models and because you have the copyright you should or the worst.   I don't have this problem so you must be doing something wrong.

The "how do I know you're telling the truth" thing is grossly out of context and not part of this thread.

The "I pay my models" is not only out of context, it is not something I suggest.  What i SAY is that a photographer might have better success by selected experienced models with a good track record of reliability, and that sometimes means paying them.

I do suggest that if the image has value to the TF* model, then the image has value, and therefore the copyright has value.  What's wrong with that?  I also go further by observing that there are lots of TF*-created images with photographer's watermarks, but such images rarely identify the model.  Do you disagree?


Now, THAT's an oxymoron!


So, are you suggesting that photographers use agency, which is akin to photographers paying for models?

Tony Lawrence wrote:
So, are you suggesting that photographers use agency, which is akin to photographers paying for models?

Not precisely.  I'm suggesting that if flaking models bothers you, you can consider being more selective when you choose models.  One (but not the only) suggestion is to work with more experienced models who have a good track record of being reliable.  And yes, that sometimes means paying them. 

There are lots of ways to get a sense about a model's reliability:
...  References from photographers you know & trust,
...  Variety of photographers in her portfolio,
...  Return work with good photographers,
...  Represented by an agency,
...  and possibly others.

If, on the other hand, a photographer wants to work with newbie models who have little experience, he is accepting a greater risk that the model will flake. 

I like my analogy of being out in the sun -- we all know that the sun can burn you, and taking precautions are totally up to you. 


P.S.  To get your quotes to work, you have to cut & reposition the quote tags.  It's a bother, but it is important.  Or are you going to zing me for unsolicited advice?

Looknsee Photography wrote:

Tony Lawrence wrote:
So, are you suggesting that photographers use agency, which is akin to photographers paying for models?

Not precisely.  I'm suggesting that if flaking models bothers you, you can consider being more selective when you choose models.  One (but not the only) suggestion is to work with more experienced models who have a good track record of being reliable.  And yes, that sometimes means paying them. 

There are lots of ways to get a sense about a model's reliability:
...  References from photographers you know & trust,
...  Variety of photographers in her portfolio,
...  Return work with good photographers,
...  Represented by an agency,
...  and possibly others.

If, on the other hand, a photographer wants to work with newbie models who have little experience, he is accepting a greater risk that the model will flake. 

I like my analogy of being out in the sun -- we all know that the sun can burn you, and taking precautions are totally up to you. 


P.S.  To get your quotes to work, you have to cut & reposition the quote tags.  It's a bother, but it is important.  Or are you going to zing me for unsolicited advice?

There are lots of ways to get a sense about a model's reliability:
...  References from photographers you know & trust,
...  Variety of photographers in her portfolio,
...  Return work with good photographers,
...  Represented by an agency,

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I don't concern myself with why models flake.   I just keep it moving.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
So, are you claiming that your technique is perfect and there is no room for improvement?  Are you saying that there is no point in attempting to protect yourself from agreeing to work with flakes?

Tony NEVER said his "technique is perfect!"  AND I have never said that either.  In fact, I have been very careful to point out that what I do to avoid flakes and late models reduces the incidence but does not eliminate it from ever happening.  So moving on to the next model is exactly what I do.  It seems like so many newbies post rants on the forums about flakes and escorts, and us old guys feed into it. 

Tony Lawrence wrote:
What I find disturbing is this subtle and sometimes overt attack on photographers.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
Hey, me, too!  Then again, no one is attacking photographers, unless you think offering requested suggestions is considered an attack

Come on guys .. I don't think we need to get so defensive.  Between all of us, there is enough "requested suggestions" to keep the OP reading for at least a few minutes. 

I keep revising my "suggestions" with every new "flake" thread.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Lets break this down:   Many if not most of us don't know the photographers models have worked with.  I've had my remarks repeated to models and I won't share information any more.   My guess is I'm not alone.

Fair enough -- I can elaborate -- when I talk about getting references and recommendations from photographers who know & trust you, I also mean photographers whom you know & trust also.  The trust is important for this very reason -- you really can't share references & recommendations if you don't trust the discretion of the people you are sharing with.

I believe we agree -- there might be benefits to building a strong local photographic community, but...
...  It takes a significant amount of effort,
...  It's not for everyone, and
...  Many don't have the time.

That's perfectly fine.  People are free to allocate their time in any way they want, just like they are free to decide how much effort they want to put into protecting themselves.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Variety of photographers in her portfolio:   Many models who are new have few shoots.

The idea behind this (and other suggestions) is to look for ways to select the (hopefully) more reliable & experienced models.  There is an appeal to working with "fresh faces", and more power to you if you do, but if you do, you are accepting a higher risk of model flaking.  Decide whether it's worth it -- play it safe (safer) or not -- it's no body's business but your own.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Return work with good photographers:   What does that mean?   How would I know how many times she's worked with someone.   Is that what you mean?

Yeah -- we know that there are photographers (many of which have replied to this thread) who have no tolerance for flakes, so if we can see that a model has posed multiple times for these "zero tolerance" photographers, that could be construed as an indication of good reliability.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Represented by an agency:   Precious few of them here.   At least real agencies and not some Facebook crap or some  bs a model or pimp made up.

I agree.  Anyone who spends any time on the Internet needs to learn how to filter out the scams.  I was thinking of legit agencies.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Lets try this.   Model offers to pay for your services.   She's new and has nothing to show.   Do you accept her money or tell her because she hasn't worked with so and so and has no references you can't accept a shoot with her.

That's a totally different scenario -- I thought we were talking about a paid model or a TF* model who was flaking.  Getting hired by a model is a different beast.  In this case, you can do typical "professional" things like signing a contract, getting a deposit, having a cancellation fee, and so forth (if you so choose).

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Thanks for the quote advice.

No prob.  I suggest practice.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Last night I used the browse feature for models in my area.   I only contacted models who signed on over the last 30 days and I looked at their height.   I didn't look to see who they've worked with nor will I contact those they have.      In general I can't pay.   If a model accepts a shoot I expect her to show or contact me if she can't.   Other then that she's a flake.   Should I take additional steps to protect myself.   Like any business that works with the general public sometimes people just won't show.   Reasons vary but there is not much beyond accepting a appointment that I or most people can do.   Especially given that this is a HOBBY website for amateur models and photographers.

So should I or others only accept shoots with experienced models with a proven track record?   How does one acquire experience or a track record?   Someone has to take a chance with them.   To be candid I don't really want to always work with models who have shot with everyone and their brother but again experience and reliable are going to come because they've shot with lots of people.   I accept that some if not most of those I contact won't follow up and those who do may not show.    As for copyright and model releases and the rest of the crap some here obsess over.   Most should learn how to produce usable marketable work before any of that.   The vast majority of what's here in my view has little to no value.   Including what I do.   Improve your work.   If the ideal is to approach clients then show imagery that they can use and see value in.   That's another thread though.

Payment?   If you have a shoot with a client who's paying then you should pay.   If the budget is decent then looking here for those models is silly.   Approach agencies.   If the budget is limited then try here.    I don't think I ever said that paying models was bad or wrong.   I think I've said that many here can't do it.   Last, little known secret was a oxymoron.   You're a clever fellow to have picked up on that.   Agency models have been known to flake.  I'm talking about jobs that pay very well.   The reason you use (pros) agencies is to limit problems and the agency can replace a model quickly if she/he flakes or cancels last minute.   Flakes happen.   Its part of life.  People can and will let us down.   You cannot control what others do.   You can ONLY control how you feel about it.   Thinking you can control people or events beyond yourself is simply hubris.

It's funny, we all seem to be on the same page on this, yet rants OR the question in this case of "flakes" does come up often in this forum.  I don't even know how many times I've posted my "tips for reducing flakes or lates" in this forum, but it's probably near a hundred times now! 

Sometimes I use the browse feature on this site, although more often lately I've been finding models who are active on Facebook and have profiles that are all but dead on here.  That has been my new approach is to use Facebook for communication and Modelmayhem as a place to be able to post or host images that might get censored on Facebook. 

Before the Internet, model agencies had more importance to the photographer. They hold casting calls, often times accepting open calls as well, then they do the vetting of potential models.   Where I came up when first getting into photography, we didn't have a legit agency near by.  I was still in school, so I used the theater department, and dance schools to hold my casting calls for models.  My castings were open and free as is the law, but often times I got paid a "film fee" for shooting some shots of serious models!  Those days were great fun, and I'd advise those models who were agency standard to make a trip to LA or San Francisco to hit up the big agencies like Ford and Elite then work their way down until they find one that will sign them. 

I both blame and thank the digital revolution for the many changes I've seen so far in my lifetime.  Maybe because digital cameras have helped make it less expensive and easy to "shoot" pictures, people get the idea that it's an "easy button!"  So no work is involved?  That is very wrong to think!  People coming to an open website that allows for professional models and photographers as well as ALL LEVELS of amateurs and hobbyists is like sitting at an open shopping mall watching the people walk by.  We don't know hardly anything about each other.  There is still work involved.  Where in the past an agency would hold the casting calls in that same shopping mall, do the vetting process of those potential models before sending them off to work with photographers, this website provides the digital equivalent of that huge open shopping mall. 

Ever since I joined this website ... actually back when I joined OneModelPlace.com way back in 2001, I've been trying to help other people with how to run their own casting calls, and the vetting process itself.  I still find photographers complaining about models who flake, and models complaining about creepy photographers.  Again, there are many variables to the issue, but doing the work at least will increase the possibility of success.  I swear sometimes that I should teach a class on this! 

Looknsee Photography wrote:
I believe we agree -- there might be benefits to building a strong local photographic community, but...
...  It takes a significant amount of effort,
...  It's not for everyone, and
...  Many don't have the time.

Absolutely!  I have been a part of a "in person" community of photographers and models for decades.  One of the very first models I've ever worked with as a young man is a personal friend with the Weston family here on the Monterey Peninsula.  That is her daughter in my avatar right now!  We used to have a "Western Portrait and Figure Group" branch in our area, but due to the Internet, that has all but been disbanded locally.  It still exists, and I still keep in contact with a few of the original members, there are no more big get togethers like we used to have.   So I'm continuing to keep my own set of local connections alive, and also I have been building a strong online community as well. 

Yes, it does take effort!  no one becomes successful by quitting! 
It's not for everyone, as not everyone is cut out to do the work involved.
Time is necessary for everything in life.  Spend time doing what you love!

The OP asked for advise and got it! 

Just as the music industry has changed tremendously over the decades, the modeling industry has too!  When discussing the modeling industry, I'm not talking about the fashion industry directly, I'm talking about the broader areas from amatur groups getting together to shoot Bettie Page, to the commercial print, to glamour nudes & porn, and to the fashion or any area of photography where models are needed.  Those who continue to rant on these forms about flaky models or creepy photographers are the ones I have to wonder if they are cut out for working with other people in this industry.   Like this website which benefits from us being here, I see the Internet modeling as an aspect of this industry.  I take it seriously, yet I have little to complain about. 

What motivates people to set up a profile on this site can vary as much from person to person that communication and developing some sort of vetting method is the best way to learn who we are best at working with.  I wish you all best wishes and success! 

Kelly Miller wrote:
well, i will try to find out what went wrong with the model and if its a serious situation, then i will reschedule another time with the model but if the reason for absence is senseless, then i will never work with such models because some models can be very hard to work with sometimes....................

You, sir, are using your common sense about this issue and you "get it!"   It should be that simple to understand for everyone here.   Thank you! 

Oh ... and "yes" some models can be very hard to work with, and some models can be a pleasure to work with.  The same goes for photographers.  There is no "easy button"  as it's a matter of finding the right people to work with.

ZMPHOT   wrote:
ModeMayhem has changed so much in the last ten years & many of the old pros have left...we now have been inundated with a plethora of  GWICs ( Guys with instant cameras)  & GWMS ( Gals with many selfies) ..... No wonder there are so many flakes. Professionalism is apparent still on occasion but is most severely lacking often.
  What bothers me is that many  young gals feel because a few friends have told them they are "pretty"....they may be a  shoo- in for being a photo model.  So with no or little experience in the field  they wish to be paid $100/hr for their services. Many have no idea about posing, showing emotions etc ,& what sort of image looks good on camera .    And there is often little desire for contact except by texting.    Perhaps us oldsters are getting too critical of the changes in interpersonal relationships....but, sadly..... I don't see much improvement on the horizon.

Of course things have changed!  In the past, I've worked for portrait studios, and I've had a couple of my own.  There is no way I'd attempt to establish a brick and mortar portrait and wedding studio in the business environment of today.  Every portrait & wedding photography studio that I admired in my town has closed shop.  It seems that the youngsters do their own portraits for their school yearbooks and weddings are shot by cheap labor found on Craigslist.  Modelmayhem is not some sort of exclusive website that is for professionals only.  It never has been.  What do you expect?

Young gals have ALWAYS been told that they are pretty.  The difference is that photographers needed to have more knowledge to do photography than they do today.  How do you define an "instant" camera?  A digital camera?  Or maybe a Polaroid camera?  When One Hour Photo labs were all the rage back in the 1980's and 1990's, I worked for some and I considered it a blessing to be able to see 5 x 7 prints from a roll of film just brought in about 50 minutes later.  The Kodak RA chemicals worked that fast back then!  So what exactly is "instant" to you?  I have the same digital cameras available to anyone.  The difference between me and others is knowledge and the ability to use it.  There are still many "pretty gals" to choose from.

You complain about those novice wannabe models that have little experience, want to be paid, and don't meet your standards of what a model should be.  Yet, you can tell the difference, correct?   You have the ability to sort through the mess of potential models in this shopping mall on the Internet and find the ones you wish to work with, am I right?  Oh about that texting thing?  Do you know how to text?  It's not my favorite method of communication, but I will use whatever method it takes to learn about someone.  We have to change or get left behind. I shoot digital now, and I know how to text too.  However, I will not allow for texting to be the exclusive method of communication.  I always use multiple methods of communication through my vetting process. 

So if you are able to distinguish between the wannabes and the prefered models you wish to work with, and you are able to text,  then what are you complaining about?  If you don't want to spend the time to get to know someone, which is basically what vetting is, then perhaps spending the money to hire agency models is the way to go for you?  Even then, it may not prevent a model from flaking on you, but at least you have some recourse.  I enjoy doing my own casting calls and vetting.  I also find that my favorite models become friends, and there is nothing wrong with that.  I drove the car yesterday to pick up the "crew" for the shoot we did.  We had a great time and an extremely successful shoot.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Days and days of pontification by my goofy as^ and what's been accomplished.   Has anyone learned anything?   Is there anything any of us can do to avoid flakes?   I say that sometimes models, MUA, other photographers and clients will let us down.   Its called life.   Get used to it.   Can we reduce our flakes, maybe.   Paying may help, asking others to check her/his reliability.   Suggestions by Pat and Looknsee are good.   I contend that working with newer unproven talent comes with more risk.    I also fully understand that if I am not paying sometimes models may decide photos alone aren't worth the effort.

When members start flake threads I also understand how they feel.   Its disappointing and rather then add insult to injury I suggest ideals that may help.   Most of all I try and let them know to not make or take it personal.   Given enough effort and time you will find willing models who will follow up and shoot.   You cannot control what other people do or say or think.   You can only control how you feel about it.

As I've said, I'm an advocate of (among other things) having a strong local photographic community, and I have said that having such is not for everyone.  It is my nature to organize & lead teams -- I did that for decades at the Fortune 50 company that used to employ me.

Just this morning, I have an example of a benefit of such.  One of the guys on our e-mail distribution list worked with a new model who is new to the area.  He sent through a recommendation for her, including 3 small images they made together.  That's a good thing.  She may be a newbie to us, but a recommendation from someone we know can tip the scales.

"You can only control how you feel about it".  And there's where we can get ourselves into trouble.  I say that you can also mitigate your risk using a variety of techniques, some of which may or may not be appropriate for everyone.

Naughty Ties wrote:
*GASP* A "model" from ModelMayhem flaked on a shoot? Say it ain't so! Well...there went another grandmother I bet. 

lol...really though it happens so just roll with it, block her and move on. 

+1 there are flakes of every shape, size, and discipline. If I had a snowflake for every flake I encountered, I'd have a blizzard.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

That is a great record!  Nothing to complain about there. 

Although I have photographed thousands of musical events from concerts, and festivals to club shows, there is one that shall haunt me forever.  Just before the release of her smash hit album 'Private Dancer' ... I flaked on Tina Turner! I was a "house" photographer for a very popular club in Santa Cruz when she was booked there to perform shortly after her break up and divorce from Ike.   I had two comp tickets, my cameras ready, along with film and full access around the entire staging area of the club.  It was a rainy stormy night, and my girlfriend and I decided to stay home.  I passed the ticket on to another couple ... thinking "Oh well, I can catch her next time she comes through town and plays that club again."   

Well that was 1983 .. Private Dancer came out in 1984 ... this is the show I missed!  Not the same venue, but I would have been able to get just as close and for the entire show.  https://youtu.be/Y2S-i3min28  Yes, I've partied with some rockstars at that venue, seen many great shows in my lifetime.  No regrets on the shows I missed ... except for Tina's show that one stormy night.  I'm the one who flaked on her.  The "girl" I was with then means nothing to me now.  My missing her show means nothing to Tina Turner, but it means a heart breaking loss for me everytime I think about it.  ......   I try not to think about it.

It's not the models who miss shooting with us that are important.  It's the ones we do get to shoot with!  Focus on the positive!

Cool and sad story.

Well put.

Herman Surkis wrote:
Related to canceling and flaking.

It seems that the more enthusiastic the model is about the shoot, or you as a photographer, the more likely to flake or cancel.

The young ones especially, but older and professional as well.

Discussing this on a local group, and many instances come up.

I have had a pro model that I have worked with in the past, set up a shoot. Much enthusiasm, postponed due to some home issues on her part. I try to reschedule and radio silence at her end. And I know she is out there because she updates her FB.
WTF!

Thoughts as to why enthusiasm is inversely correlated with the event actually occurring?

It does seem odd.   Sometimes it may be because the model has put on weight or looks have faded a bit.   I shot a model and she asked to shoot again but never followed up but posted new shots on Facebook.   Mostly selfies.   I saw her a few months later and she had put on some pounds.   Its also easy to feign excitement but showing up requires work and effort.   In several cases I think the models were waiting for me to offer some money and when I didn't moved on.   In some cases the people they work with are close to them which makes shoots easy.