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I'm an independent photographer. I shoot for pleasure as well as profit, and choose to work mainly with female models sourced from Model Mayhem. I believe many photographers complain when their MM contact mails are ignored by models. Talking to one model, she explained that complaining was a waste of time. So I'd like to do something to promote those models who have been professional, have responded, and with whom I have worked. I happily recommend each of them. First, the model who told me it wasn't worth complaining: MartaBrixton, https://www.modelmayhem.com/alkotit . Marta responded immediately and we arranged a shoot very quickly, as we live just a few miles from each other. Next, Gigi Ari https://www.modelmayhem.com/3661682 . Gigi responded to my second internal mail. She has a particularly attractive face so I doubled my usual effort to make contact. And finally, my MM model throughout 2016, Kristina London https://www.modelmayhem.com/kristinag . Kristina fas a full-time job in the fashion industry and (usually) is available for shoots on only two days a week. When I contacted her she was working in New York for her job. She responded from there immediately, and we have enjoyed (I hope that's the right word, Kristina!) several trips to various locations. Although Kristina naturally leans towards fashion, she is open to the kind of stock photography work that I do, and is a true professional in all respects. To wrap this up – to respond to a contact request is polite and professional. Even if it's just to say that you are booked up. Jan 11 17 05:57 am Link Roger Whiteway wrote: A model has no obligation to respond to any unsolicited email, especially if it comes from a "Johnny Horndog" who's looking for spank bank stuff and has a port full of it. Jan 11 17 06:22 am Link I almost always respond to email on MM and Model Society. I respond to photographers on instagram and tumblr. But, I don't in any way think a model should feel obligated to respond to every inquiry. I know girls who get solicited for porn, are asked to do 'x' number of full spread shots (when their profiles explicitly state that they don't do them), are given a really gross idea like being wrapped in plastic wrap so that their entire identity is concealed except for their body hair and then garden shears will be cutting off their hair and in this way they will be made an unidentifiable human and won't matter... Among other things. Yes, that last idea was proposed to me. I actually did answer by telling him we shouldn't work together because we clearly have different ideas about what makes a decent image, but I was in no way obliged to respond at all. It isn't unprofessional to not respond to something that clearly goes beyond your boundaries. I and many other girls are bombarded with emails demanding things we don't do. I once answered an email from a photographer known for inappropriate behavior. When I stated I wasn't comfortable shooting his content as it is too sexually explicit for me, he proceeded to argue with me saying that only one full spread was required, and that I'd just need to do that shot. No. I'm not going to answer inquiries from people who are already pushing my limits in email. Who knows what they'll do in person. Not all email is worth answering. Sometimes it's demeaning enough just to read it. Jan 11 17 07:59 am Link ASmallWoman wrote: I almost always respond to messages as well, but I totally agree there is no obligation whatsoever to reply to messages that are offers to do porn (more often than you may think based upon what others have stated here in the past) or other things that I don't personally feel are right for me. There are indeed cases where a message is not worth answering. Jan 11 17 08:15 am Link ASmallWoman wrote: /Thread Jan 11 17 09:22 am Link I mean, we can spend all day listing the models we like, but that a model responded to you does not make her any more or less professional than one who didn't. Because not all of us think its "unprofessional" to not answer requests someone isn't interested in. Jan 11 17 08:17 pm Link All his links lead to 404s. Jan 11 17 08:58 pm Link Roger Whiteway wrote: Each & every contact request is different & requires a different reply, or NONE at all. Jan 11 17 09:07 pm Link LA StarShooter wrote: It's the period at the end of each link; it's inside the BBCode tags, but should be outside. Jan 11 17 11:13 pm Link kickfight wrote: This^^ Jan 12 17 02:50 am Link House of Thailand wrote: What a rude response. I suppose horn dog clothing designers are different. And there is nothing wrong with being polite . Jan 12 17 05:45 am Link I've honestly never understood what seems to be a near obsession some folks have with getting rejected in writing. I've always been fine with not hearing back from anyone I send messages to, it communicates that they're not interested, and, at that point I don't really need to hear anything more from them. I'm looking for that minority of people who's views align closely enough with my own that they're happy working with me. That's not most people and I've never understood why I should have any further interest in anyone who's not motivated in a positive manner by a message from me. They're saving me time, I like that. Now, the ones that try to draw you into labyrinthian negotiations... Jan 12 17 06:37 am Link I agree with a few other responses. A lack of response from a fellow artist really does not affect me. I think nothing of it actually, aside from perhaps making a mental note just so I don't continue reaching out to the same person. I take a lack of response exactly for what it is. Now if we had planned something or what have you and it was a flake situation where the person does not respond, ok that's one thing. But a message not replied to, when nothing has ever been planned? Just does not bother me and I move on. It happens regularly. I have seen people put on other's "do not recommend" list on their profiles simply because they did not respond to a message. I've also had it happen where the person will message me back months down the road, saying they had personal issues or simply completely passed my message by inadvertently, and apologize and express interest in working together. It happens- I don't feel a need to burn bridges that don't even exist over it. Jan 12 17 12:04 pm Link Jeffrey M Fletcher wrote: This, so much this. Jan 12 17 02:30 pm Link D R A G O N F L Y wrote: Without a reply (either positive or negative), I am more often wondering whether they've seen my message at all. I'd rather get a reply saying 'sorry not interested'. (Although I must admit that I'd rather get a positive reaction ofcourse.) Jan 12 17 04:54 pm Link Roger, I am happy for your success. I to have found some success using this site. Also I am well aware of the models you mention. They are great. Jolly good! I enjoy working with "true professionals" too. So I wish you continued success. HOWEVER ... about your topic regarding responses, are you the kind of fellow who enjoys getting spam? What is spam? Well it's junk mail .. remember "junk mail" or letters, pamphlets and other assorted garbage meant to spark our interest in products or services? The only difference is that "mail" is by digital Internet services that don't take stamps to deliver. You've got to think of messages to people you've never had contact with before as cold calls. Those of us who have worked in sales where we've had to phone people who may or may not be interested know exactly what I mean! You can't possibly believe that everyone will answer your phone call or reply to a unsolicited message, can you? About the "professionalism" on this website. There are few qualifications to setting up a profile & portfolio on this site. There are professionals on this website, but then there are far more who are not so ... for various reasons. Inexperience, lack of time for following through, loss of interest, death in family, college courses overloading the hours available, not taking modeling or photography so seriously, I can go on and on and on about all the many reasons people may not be like you and I as far as what we perceive as professionalism. Complaining does not help. Tightening up on communication skills does. Remember; Unsolicited messages is exactly that! "Unsolicited" So don't take offense to a lack of a reply, and be thankful for those who do respond. How do you think we did thing back in the old days when all we had was the post office and landline phone service? Jan 12 17 05:47 pm Link Layla_B wrote: +1 Jan 13 17 01:05 am Link Thank you for your replies. It's good to see that so many take an interest in the forums here, and have strong opinions. I don't regard contacting a model here as a cold call, because I think models put their profiles here in order to attract offers of work. I don't ask models to do anything remotely offensive, most of my work is based on countryside and the outdoors. Also, I am not looking for models to do unpaid work, even those who offer TFP. Under those circumstances, I think it doesn't hurt to acknowledge a professional contact. On the other hand, I do appreciate that a reply can encourage an argument, and that is just tiresome. Thanks to everyone who made a positive contribution here. Jan 13 17 07:30 am Link Roger Whiteway wrote: I can see why models don't respond to you. Your profile is 10 years old, all the details fields and description is blank, you only have 5 photos, 4 were uploaded 01 November 2006, the 5th was uploaded 3 days later and nothing since that date. Jan 13 17 11:39 pm Link You make a good point, Darren. I used MM years ago, until I got tired of non-replies and no-shows. It's only in the last two or three years that I decided to try to mix up my photography once more, and started contacting models again. You're right, I should polish my front window! In some small mitigation, I always add links to my more recent work in my contact mails. For example, a good sample of my recent work with Kristina is found through Google Image Search (not the regular search) by searching for "Russian outdoor girl". I also have lightboxes of work with other models that I occasionally link to. Jan 14 17 02:45 am Link for my part i don't expect a model to respond unless they are interested. maybe i did when i first joined but i got over that quickly once i understood how this all works. there are many reasons why models might not choose to respond (including butthurt photographers who hassle them about saying no) and i respect those reasons. Jan 14 17 08:18 am Link Rodger, I agree with another member. You've been here a long time. I suggest more photos especially those that show working models like Kristina. https://www.modelmayhem.com/kristinag My guess is some models might not take you seriously. Keep in mind some of the better looking models get a lot of emails and without more to look at here may be ignored. I'm not saying thats wise but is how it is. I gather when you email them you include direct links to published work but you might want to make sure everything works. Your links in your OP don't. A Google search for Russian outdoor girl leads to adult material. Yes an image search leads to stock shots but don't make people work to figure things out. In general I think its best to show an image of a model as a photographers Avatar. MM has a verified credit feature. The models you mentioned could post their experiences with you. Personally if I were a model and saw you'd been a member over ten years yet had no tags from past models. No links to Facebook. No links to a website. No credited shots of MM models in my portfolio I might not respond to your emails either. Again I gather you may include those things in a direct email but consider having it here as well. Jan 15 17 08:19 pm Link Tony, thank you for taking the time to respond with such a well thought-out reply. I accept all that you say. Of course, I have to offer my excuses! Parts of the Getty web site are currently a shambles, which means that links to current work from my profile page may not act as they should. And you're right about the Google search, which is why I ALWAYS emphasise to use Google IMAGE Search (GIS). I think porn is effectively filtered from GIS. What I offer to models that I would like to work with are a link to current work, and an indication of one or two MM models that I currently am (or recently have been) working with. And I usually mention that the offer is for paid work. I can see how that, as a strategy, might be improved upon, but I would hope it's not a completely disastrous way of setting about things. Those are my excuses, but I see them for what they are. Thanks again for your helpful post. Edit to add: I see that photographers in general don't use photos of themselves as avatars. For myself, I would find it odd if a model put up a photo of a photographer as an avatar. Just my crazy brain, I guess. Jan 16 17 02:56 am Link I've sorted out the links in the OP, where full stops at the end of the web addresses were being incorporated. And I've updated my profile. You should have seen the dust and cobwebs. Thanks again for all helpful advice. Jan 16 17 09:07 am Link Like a few other models who have responded, I do try to reply to all messages (MM, Facebook, email, IG, Tumblr, etc) regarding shoots (and most of the others as well). Sometimes, though, it does get rather time consuming and it seems some of the most time consuming cases are those that never result in any shoot being booked at all. I know there are models out there who just do not have the time to deal with these and who can spot them usually based on the first message. One piece of advice I would offer to photographers contacting models is this: Give us information. At least let us know you're interested in shooting, give a link to your portfolio, and a sentence or two on what you might like to shoot as well as if you intend for it to be trade or paid. I think you'll probably see your response rate go up because the models are more likely to read the message and not have to go digging for your portfolio or try to figure out what you have in mind. Give it a try and see how it works out ^_^ Jan 17 17 10:21 am Link Thank you, Dekilah, for your thoughts. I think what you suggest is pretty much what I do. Here is an example: Hello ______, I'm Roger, I shoot mainly outdoor subjects including a lot of natural history. I'm looking for someone with autumn-coloured hair to do an outdoor shoot in south-west London in the next couple of weeks, while there are still autumn leaves on the trees. I have worked before with several MM models. Here are some examples of my work with Kristina: http://www.istockphoto.com/search/lightbox/22420561 This would be a morning shoot, and I usually pay £20./hour. Please let me know if your are interested. Autumn won't be lasting that much longer! Best wishes, Roger Jan 17 17 12:10 pm Link Roger Whiteway wrote: That is NOT a portfolio to be sending to models you want to work with, that is a stock gallery site with piles of images from the same shoot/model. Jan 18 17 04:54 pm Link Thank you for taking the time to respond, Ionalynn. I think that is good advice. Now the excuses. Always with the excuses. Since posting here I've had a lot of good advice and, as a result, have updated my MM portfolio so that it reflects pretty much what you suggest: photographs of four or five different models from different outdoor shoots. One thing I've noticed, on reading a few other threads, is that models are advised not to respond if photographers ask for replies to an off-site e-mail address. I will drop that habit! Jan 19 17 01:42 am Link I've never been offended when a model didn't respond. In some cases, I've been disappointed because I had high hopes for working together, but I understand that some models are in high demand and may not even have time to read every message. Another point is that many of the profiles on Model Mayhem haven't been updated in years. Sometimes, I can tell that the model is inactive and probably isn't even bothering to log into Model Mayhem. I'm not offended by that either. If life doesn't allow me to think about photography for a while, then I might go a few years without updating any of my online profiles. If I send an e-mail to a profile that seems to be neglected, I certainly don't expect a model to come out of "retirement" to shoot with me. Even if the profile isn't obviously inactive, I tend to assume that the model is just busy or may be taking an intentional hiatus. If someone is actively modeling and just doesn't like my concept, a polite and encouraging "no thanks" reply is appreciated, but I don't have any expectations. The only time I've been miffed by a non-reply was when a model contacted me and wanted to set up a shoot fairly quickly. We exchanged a message or two and she seemed interested. Then, she just stopped responding. If the model contacts me and starts discussing ideas and then has second thoughts, I consider some kind of reply to be good manners. If she just says that she feels that our visions are diverging and wants to look elsewhere, that's disappointing but still better manners than just to quit responding. Even when someone just quits responding, I'm aware of issues. I had e-mailed with one or two MM models in late summer about some ideas. In the e-mails, I told them of my health issues and said that my availability would depend on my health. The specific concept needed the weather to be a little colder anyway, and I said that if things worked, we'd talk again as the weather changed. My health went bad, and I was barely keeping up with work much less photography during the period when we would have been trying to work the concept. (I'm typing in a Model Mayhem forum this afternoon because I'm in too much pain to be at work and not really clear-headed enough to do my job in the way that I believe the job must be done.) While I believe that my warning the models of my possible health issues was a part of being respectful of their time, I also understand people being very private about health issues. For all I know, the model I mentioned in the previous paragraph may have had a sudden health issue. If someone just stops responding, maybe he or she has had some kind of health issue. If someone doesn't respond to a "cold call" message, there could be something like that happening. Again, I feel disappointed when I don't get a response, but I'm not offended. PS. I used to be offended when I didn't get a response of some kind on dating websites. Because a dating relationship and dating website is very different from a photographic/artistic collaboration site, I considered a polite rejection a much more important bit of etiquette. I now realize that many people build their free profiles on impulse but never sign up for the service. Because they haven't joined, they can't reply. I certainly don't expect someone to send money to one of these sites just to tell me that she's not interested. Feb 17 17 01:59 pm Link House of Thailand wrote: The second half of this is a totally out of place and offensive comment, particularly if one takes the time to review the OP's portfolio. Feb 27 17 07:00 pm Link Roger Whiteway wrote: The more one comes onto this forum, the more one comes to realise that there are some photographers in the world that have large and very unwieldy egos. Feb 28 17 03:22 am Link Roger Whiteway wrote: When models email me, I have no patience to go searching throughout the internet and familiarize myself with unfamiliar user interfaces. This is Model Mayhem and I want to see a member's best work here. It's no more difficult to keep a MM portfolio up to date than any other site. Roger Whiteway wrote: Roger Whiteway wrote: It might be helpful to include your excuses in your contact emails. Feb 28 17 05:49 am Link |
