Forums > Digital Art and Retouching > How to protect photos when outsourcing work?

Photographer

Mike Monroe Visuals

Posts: 1

Grand Junction, Colorado, US

I'm considering outsourcing retouching of my photos, what assurances are there that your photos won't be stolen or misused?

Feb 17 17 11:34 am Link

Retoucher

3869283

Posts: 1464

Sofia, Sofija grad, Bulgaria

Mike Monroe Ph wrote:
I'm considering outsourcing retouching of my photos, what assurances are there that your photos won't be stolen or misused?

None.
But a good professional would never do it because:

1. He looses you as a client
2. He damages his own reputation => looses other clients
3. He won't be able to benefit from the misuse, only from working for clients, so practically that would be a business suicide
4. He is in a legal trouble.

If you are so very concerned and want to make it very clear and explicit you can sign a written agreement with the vendor of your choice.

Feb 17 17 12:04 pm Link

Photographer

TerrysPhotocountry

Posts: 4649

Rochester, New York, US

Mike Monroe Ph wrote:
I'm considering outsourcing retouching of my photos, what assurances are there that your photos won't be stolen or misused?

Anything that is on the Internet can be stolen. In most case's a simple copy and paste is all it takes. Try it and you will see for your self.

Feb 17 17 02:28 pm Link

Retoucher

Steven Burnette Retouch

Posts: 338

Mount Vernon, New York, US

Similar to what Anchev mentioned, it is highly unlikely that a true Professional Retoucher would steal or misuse images that you hired them to work on. It takes a long time to build a good reputation, so it really makes no sense to tarnish or destroy it by upsetting your client. As a professional I will often go above and beyond to make my clients happy, so doing what you described and losing a client's trust is simply not even a consideration to me. Not worth it at all.

If you are looking for 100% assurance with everyone, not sure that is actually possible. Even with a signed agreement, if someone's intent is to steal or misuse, they will steal and misuse, you can try to minimize the chances of it happening to you, but unless you plan to never post anything online or use any image commercially, there will always be a chance on theft and misuse.

Remember this is a big world, your concern is with Retouchers, but there may be other "photographers" and businesses using your images at this very moment with their names on it and making a profit. As your popularity grows, so will your work as a target. In my opinion, the Retoucher that you hire will likely be last individual you should be concerned for in regards to stealing your images.

Feb 17 17 07:43 pm Link

Retoucher

3869283

Posts: 1464

Sofia, Sofija grad, Bulgaria

BTW the question is a little incorrect. There can be no stealing as you are sending the files voluntarily and when outsourcing you will always have written communication proving that. In that sense the retoucher is the one in the unfavorable position as he is dealing with someone else's property and for that he must be extremely cautions not to abuse it in any way.

On the technical side it is good to work with people who are technically knowledgeable and understand the meaning of things like encrypted connection, restricted file access, system security etc, so that you can trust your content won't simply be uploaded to windows box with admin password '123' and publicly opened wi-fi connection. Obviously you also don't want to work with ones who would upload screenshots of your images so that they are publicly visible. Files are usually shared back and forth through the popular file sharing services (which means they are placed on the storage drives of a third party company). Generally that is ok but if you want to add an extra layer of security for your files you may consider setting up your own ftp server.

Feb 18 17 12:38 am Link

Retoucher

Marcus Christopher

Posts: 95

Vienna, Wien, Austria

anchev wrote:

None.
But a good professional would never do it because:

1. He looses you as a client
2. He damages his own reputation => looses other clients
3. He won't be able to benefit from the misuse, only from working for clients, so practically that would be a business suicide
4. He is in a legal trouble.

This. Anybody who invested time and money building a business wouldn't do a foolish thing like stealing the photos of some random client. If whoever you'd like to work with doesn't seem to fall in this category, don't work with them. Simple as that.

And I might add an advise I first heard from Natalia Taffarel: "You shouldn´t worry about someone stealing your images until you're making enough money with them to have a lawyer on speed dial."

Feb 19 17 07:29 am Link

Retoucher

3869283

Posts: 1464

Sofia, Sofija grad, Bulgaria

Marcus Christopher wrote:
And I might add an advise I first heard from Natalia Taffarel: "You shouldn´t worry about someone stealing your images until you're making enough money with them to have a lawyer on speed dial."

That's like saying "you should not lock your house and car unless you live in a palace and have a few Rolls Royces".

Feb 19 17 08:28 am Link

Photographer

Darren Brade

Posts: 3351

London, England, United Kingdom

I would be more wary of photographers stealing your work than a retoucher.

I am surprised how often that happens!

Feb 22 17 04:51 pm Link

Photographer

TMA Photo and Training

Posts: 1009

Lancaster, Pennsylvania, US

Hera are a few other side things you can consider:

1. Send an agreement form to the retoucher before you begin to work.  Send a pre-notification letter or an agreement type of letter to the retoucher to sign and return to you first as a condition of employment.

Indicate to the retoucher that  "the images have been copyrighted" , and "Do not to share the images with third parties", and  "Make secure arrangements for transmission", and especially  "Do not use, or post, or display the retouched images as examples of their work",   Have them sign this memorandum of notice and understanding as a condition of retouching your images.  It puts others on notice when they have to "sign for" your images to be able to work on them.  This agreement letter shows them you are serious about how your images are handled and the terms of your working together.

2. Actually Copyright your images to gain additional legal advantages and damages.  You can indeed copyright the images with the US copyright office on-line, from home, for approximately $40 bucks for a very large group of images.  Pre-registration allows you to recover lawyers costs and punitive and extra damages in case you decide to pursue the issue in court.  Some casual scoff-laws will recognize the extra hazards of making your images public if you tell them  "Do not Copy, Do not Distribute, Do not Derive, Do not Share, Do not Publish, under the penalty of law"

3. Hidden security programs or image search functions.  There are several services you can research out to see if others are using Your images around the Internet. 

The services of a company like a "DigiMark", or  "Google Reverse Image Lookup"  can provide you with feedback if others are illegally displaying your images.  At Google you can drop your image in question into the Google Image Search Page.   It will then show you where else on the internet it has found another copy of your image!  Helps identify those pesky violators. 

There are also "security embedding algorithms" available that you can bake into your images with a serial number or message hidden within the image itself to prove the image belongs to you.  It will reveal your hidden message as a verification to lawyers and to the court that will prove that you have original ownership of that image and that you took extra security measures to protect it. It goes over real big in court when you can run a program for the judge that shows your undisputed ownership.   Several embedded security programs will even allow you to send out a Robot to try to find your images on the Internet and then to e-mail you back with the offending locations.

4. Support up-coming Legislation by contacting your local representatives.   I hear that there is a legislative idea going around that would want to set up a "Small Claims Copyright Court". It would handle claims of XX.XX dollars or less, and make the process of recovering damages much easier and quicker for those who have been violated.  I would certainly favor an easy way to make copyright proceedings short, quick, and inexpensive. 

Easily and quickly E-mail your own congressional representative here:   http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/   or call the house info switchboard at  (202)225-3121.  Tell them you want that "Small Claims Copyright Court" brought forward.   Just type in your zip code   and it will get you started on how to contact your own legislators.

Feb 22 17 08:29 pm Link

Retoucher

Benski

Posts: 1048

London, England, United Kingdom

The problem is as a retoucher, you need to be able to showcase your work and use it in a portfolio.

There was a discussion on here years back as to who really owns the work once it's retouched – does the retoucher own the retouched pixels? I doubt it's ever gone to court – but I think without a contract, it could qualify as a Derivative Work.

Duchamp drew a moustache on the Mona Lisa – I've certainly taken a few moustaches off models .. Like with music, the cost of taking legal action would almost never be worth it .. So I'd think it's a reason to build good relationships, and see the people you work with as a team, who can all use the work to promote themselves, with a gentleman's agreement you won't take credit for work you didn't do .. Outsource to certain parts of Asia, and it wouldn't surprise me AT ALL if you saw your picture on a billboard in Delhi one day .. I think you'd have to laugh.

Feb 22 17 09:28 pm Link

Retoucher

3869283

Posts: 1464

Sofia, Sofija grad, Bulgaria

TLDR: Over-complicating things contradicts the very purpose of outsourcing.

TMA Photo and Training wrote:
Hera are a few other side things you can consider:

1. Send an agreement form to the retoucher before you begin to work.  Send a pre-notification letter or an agreement type of letter to the retoucher to sign and return to you first as a condition of employment.

Indicate to the retoucher that  "the images have been copyrighted" , and "Do not to share the images with third parties", and  "Make secure arrangements for transmission", and especially  "Do not use, or post, or display the retouched images as examples of their work",   Have them sign this memorandum of notice and understanding as a condition of retouching your images.  It puts others on notice when they have to "sign for" your images to be able to work on them.  This agreement letter shows them you are serious about how your images are handled and the terms of your working together.

In the majority of cases you send images to the retoucher through a third party service (e.g. Google Drive). If you enforce a note "do not share with third parties" and you don't provide your own FTP server to receive the final result that becomes meaningless. You have already shared the files with a third party (Google) and the retoucher cannot return to you the result as you are not allowing him to. The other meaningless thing is "do not use or display the retouched images". How is one supposed to retouch an image without using it and without displaying it? Valid written agreements don't look like that.

A professional retoucher is aware of legal matters. In general if you burden a deal with too much bureaucracy you should expect to be charged a higher rate too. Nobody likes to be pressed or threatened even indirectly. By adding too much "insurance" you are sending another message - not that you are serious but that you are seriously scared and distrust the one you are hiring. Why hire them at all then?

2. Actually Copyright your images to gain additional legal advantages and damages.  You can indeed copyright the images with the US copyright office on-line, from home, for approximately $40 bucks for a very large group of images.  Pre-registration allows you to recover lawyers costs and punitive and extra damages in case you decide to pursue the issue in court.  Some casual scoff-laws will recognize the extra hazards of making your images public if you tell them  "Do not Copy, Do not Distribute, Do not Derive, Do not Share, Do not Publish, under the penalty of law"

Again this is impossible and meaningless. Retouching itself is a process of creating of a derivative. Saving a file is copying. Sharing the end result through a third party file sharing service is a form sharing and distribution.

3. Hidden security programs or image search functions.  There are several services you can research out to see if others are using Your images around the Internet. 

The services of a company like a "DigiMark", or  "Google Reverse Image Lookup"  can provide you with feedback if others are illegally displaying your images.  At Google you can drop your image in question into the Google Image Search Page.   It will then show you where else on the internet it has found another copy of your image!  Helps identify those pesky violators. 

There are also "security embedding algorithms" available that you can bake into your images with a serial number or message hidden within the image itself to prove the image belongs to you.  It will reveal your hidden message as a verification to lawyers and to the court that will prove that you have original ownership of that image and that you took extra security measures to protect it. It goes over real big in court when you can run a program for the judge that shows your undisputed ownership.   Several embedded security programs will even allow you to send out a Robot to try to find your images on the Internet and then to e-mail you back with the offending locations.

Digimarc adds encoding noise to final files (e.g. jpg) and to make it really survive edits it has to be visible which influences badly image quality. Those are the images it can search for. However it doesn't find them. I have been a subscriber some years ago and this service really doesn't help. Plus it is inapplicable for outsourcing of retouching work because you send a raw file to the retoucher, untouched by any plugins whatsoever and you don't want the final result to be with additional noise.

As for Google image search - it is not aimed to be a hidden security program or a service for searching illegally displayed images in particular. It is just an image based web search. Just like TinEye. It may indeed help to find visually similar content on the web but this is not really helpful because 1) it doesn't index and display the images it finds instantly 2) when you can find your image in Google it's usually too late. If you want to prosecute someone for such a misuse: This won't save you money and headache, on the contrary - you would have to spend money for lawyers and waste your time for all this. Much easier to retouch the images yourself.

4. Support up-coming Legislation by contacting your local representatives.   I hear that there is a legislative idea going around that would want to set up a "Small Claims Copyright Court". It would handle claims of XX.XX dollars or less, and make the process of recovering damages much easier and quicker for those who have been violated.  I would certainly favor an easy way to make copyright proceedings short, quick, and inexpensive. 

Easily and quickly E-mail your own congressional representative here:   http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/   or call the house info switchboard at  (202)225-3121.  Tell them you want that "Small Claims Copyright Court" brought forward.   Just type in your zip code   and it will get you started on how to contact your own legislators.

Have you actually done any of the things which you propose? Preparing for a war with the people you work with is not the way to establish mutual trust and respect. Working with the wrong people cannot be fixed with paper work. You cannot put a gun against the head of the vendor and expect some great working relationship.

Benski wrote:
The problem is as a retoucher, you need to be able to showcase your work and use it in a portfolio.

Why is that a problem? It is just a matter of agreement. You can always ask for permission. If the client doesn't allow - of course you won't showcase the image. Another one will allow.

Feb 23 17 01:10 am Link

Retoucher

Selena Jain

Posts: 102

Nottingham, England, United Kingdom

As I am quite familiar with this outsourcing business, I can assure you that most of the outsourcing companies do maintain the privacy policy. For example, you can see their policy regarding their client's privacy here -  https://www.clippingpathindia.com/privacy-policy.html

Mar 03 17 02:57 am Link

Photographer

Renee2016

Posts: 3

København, Hovedstaden, Denmark

it's better to find a retoucher ,who comes from a country which has strict law to protect copyright.

Apr 12 17 08:29 am Link