Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:
The other option would be to judge the model when she gets to the job and send her home ( without pay I should add) if she doesn't meet the artists needs.

You’re joking right?

If not, then I just don’t think you can treat people like that, models or otherwise.

Photographers need to do their due diligence... prior to the model turning up.  If you have the requirement for a model to be nude and you have no idea what she actually looks like nude, more fool you. 

Pick a different model.

Derek Ridgers wrote:

You’re joking right?

If not, then I just don’t think you can treat people like that, models or otherwise.

Photographers need to do their due diligence... prior to the model turning up.  If you have the requirement for a model to be nude and you have no idea what she actually looks like nude, more fool you. 

Pick a different model.

I have never been in that position because I only work with models who have no problem sending me nude images or they already have them in their port. Since I mostly shoot trade I have no problem taking a chance on a model. If she is not what I require I just won't shoot with her again.

However if I were to pay a model that mythical now $150 an hour I would expect to see recent nudes in her port, or she emails me some of her recent nude work.  If not I will not hire her.


I was responding to those who mistakenly think they can make a decision on a nude model without seeing her nude and then paying those top end rates.  If a model who states she is a nude model, wants to be paid a nude models rates and yet we are supposed to hire them sight unseen...The only option then would be what I suggested above.

FFantastique wrote:
Wish I had telepathy to communicate the full context.
Years ago I had model show with much more weight than advertised in profile and port! 😢
Model wws willing to be sent home sans shooting...but I felt it rude.
Still do years later.

Because of these situations, some legit togs request more photos be sent--recent revealing ones.
While that has elements of potential scam, it also is a bona fide m.o. of some togs.
Context matters. So does style.

This is the third post I have made on this thread and I hesitate to state anything definitive because each artist has their own style.
Many legitimate methods also can parallel ones that are not. So intent matters too--actions alone are not sufficient for me to ascertain what is UCR--Usual, Customary and Reasonable.

Let me share my initial reaction...
...the OP aims the question at other models, and I normally stay on the backside of the camera. So I know I am not the respondent that she is targeting.
However, let me share part of my opinion--it appears to me that both sides had mismatched expectations and responses.
Does the caliber of work warrant putting up with idiosyncratic methodology?
I see it as an audition. Not paid. Unusual but not necessarily out of line. But could be. Maybe OP sensed other factors not conveyed in original question.
But on other hand, her  level of resistance I also found surprising. There is so still so much I don't know about each party's experiences and intents.
Just seems like it could have been handled better by all parties concerned with more mature conversation and explanation.

BTW, OP does admirable work, particularly with pole. 👍🏻
I will disclose that I triage my contributions to forums a bit more now. If model doesn't have good work, then I don't feel compelled to share much.
So the astute reader should discern this as a compliment but some readers need help so I thought I should lay i out there! 😉

My subsequent reaction is to take some of the emotion out of it and ask what would a pro like Helmut Newton do?
Still hard for me to guess with certainty but he might ask, hesitatingly, if he felt it was necessary.

So botom line: I understand the request and I understand the reluctance to provide preview yet I think it could have been worked out copacetically.

Remember the only reason why she balked on the request was that she was not going to be paid. So with her it wasn't modesty, or concern it was only about money.

There has to be an issue if a model who says they pose nude won't have nudes in their port or share some of her nude images with the artist before hand.  I would have ended it with this model far before the interview.

ASmallWoman wrote:

But you could figure out what a model looks like once she shows up in person. Or you could ask that she come in light clothing - nothing too bulky in fabric or something. Wanting her to randomly strip completely nude isn't necessary. Even suggesting a bra and underwear would be better. Additionally, heavily retouched images are often pretty noticeable, and in that case, they could ask that she bring along some printed example of non-retouched images or cell phone examples to show at the in person interview (that she could keep with her). Wanting her to randomly strip at the end of an interview is uncalled for as there are so many ways around it - or they could suggest a quick end of interview shoot just for polaroids for reference of her body.

Of course once the model shows up one could figure out what she looks like (???). The point I'm trying to make is if a model kept their portfolio images to images that are relevant to prospective clients this would be far less of an issue. Sure we can spot photoshopped images easily, so what, that just means I immediately disregard those images as I roll my eyes in disbelief. Photos of models posing in trees, standing in metal buckets, hugging large boulders while displaying an expression of an explosive orgasm means nothing to me when trying to consider a model; and most of these images will be butchered to look like a cartoon or a Normen Rockwell painting.

I have said many times, I really don't care how or why someone photoshopped you and put you in an image of computer created fantasy; that's worthless. Using simple clothing or a bathing suit just show me a standing shot and head and shoulder shots that are straight from the camera. Then I can decide yes or no.

Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:
I was responding to those who mistakenly think they can make a decision on a nude model without seeing her nude and then paying those top end rates.  If a model who states she is a nude model, wants to be paid a nude models rates and yet we are supposed to hire them sight unseen...The only option then would be what I suggested above.

I think it simply comes down to treating people with respect.

If a model turns up and for whatever reason they aren’t right, I simply don’t have it in me to turn them away.  I see it as my own fault for not checking up enough.  And then I try to use my creativity to get something much better out of the shoot.  To harness the serendipity.

It's not always possible.

One model I’ve worked with several times is into shibari.  Last time she turned up with some very bad bruising and, with the idea I wanted to do, it was almost impossible (for me) to Photoshop it.

My option now is to not work with her in the future because she didn’t have enough respect for me to forewarn me or avoid getting the bruises in the first place, since the shoot have been planned well in advance.

So, of course, respect works both ways.