Photographer
Eagle Rock Photographer
Posts: 1286
Los Angeles, California, US
http://www.booksie.com/520553-how-i-sur … im-attack# Fascinating trivia: the World Trade Center attacks cut off access to some bridges and other transportation out of Manhattan. The Coast Guard, based on Governors Island Near Manhattan, organized a boatlift to get people off Manhattan. The boatlift, moving over 500,000 people, was bigger than the Dunkirk boatlift!!
Artist/Painter
Hunter GWPB
Posts: 8192
King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, US
Very interesting. Too bad we can't have any discussion on it.
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
People were evacuated over the Brooklyn (Financial District) and Manhattan bridges. Residents even walked up to the 59th Street Bridge and crossed over to Queens as the subway services were suspended. I know, because I was there and I was a volunteer with the Long Island College Hospital on the Brooklyn side of Brooklyn Bridge, where also the Cadman Plaza Command Center was located... People came over the bridge and many volunteers were handing out waterbottles to people crossing the bridges. I am rather surprised about that claim that the bridges weren't passable... because that's not what I have experienced. I have just read that article... and several red flags went off... the "title" which is chosen to be inflamatory (equating all Muslims with the terrorists)... the kids name, with a "Viking first name" (Arian... Nordic... "white people" HELLOOHOO!!!!)... supposedly translated into "Lion of God"... which one... Odin, Wotan, Freya, Thor... "Lion of..." is usually a Christian sorta title... this all is really... really wrong! However, Archangel "Ariel" is the Lion of God in Judeo Christian mythology... This whole story sounds very, very fabricated and is written with an agenda!!! Again... I was there... I was a volunteer... I suffered the WTC cough for a few years... I received FEMA assistance as my address was considered Ground Zero, and I suffered PTSD for more than 10 years after it..., when Bin Laden got killed... I cried for joy and relief... That story stinks of manipulation and was more likely than not written by an adult and that "kid" named Arik doesn't exist! ![https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21462448_835480493285732_9067911061923279611_n.jpg?oh=86a9b43aa112652c45c21bdb118d8495&oe=5A4FD164]()
Photographer
Brooklyn Bridge Images
Posts: 13200
Brooklyn, New York, US
I never heard of any "boatlift" during 9-11
Liuke Udor I remember people walking across bridges when subways shut down
Something stinks here
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
I never heard of any "boatlift" during 9-11
Like Udor I remember people walking across bridges when subways shut down
Something stinks here Yep, I have never heard of this as well, only thought that possibly Staten Island, Jersey City people may have ferried on the other side from us over there...
But, again, I have never heard of it, putting it all in context... it's a made up lie, targeting certain groups or a certain mindset of the population... Since most of them are not New Yorkers and live rather at distances... and because it's a long time ago, by now... they gobble it up like there's no tomorrow... 
Photographer
Brooklyn Bridge Images
Posts: 13200
Brooklyn, New York, US
udor wrote:
Yep, I have never heard of this as well, only thought that possibly Staten Island, Jersey City people may have ferried on the other side from us over there...
But, again, I have never heard of it, putting it all in context... it's a made up lie, targeting certain groups or a certain mindset of the population... Since most of them are not New Yorkers and live rather at distances... and because it's a long time ago, by now... they gobble it up like there's no tomorrow... This was shot on Brooklyn Bridge on 9-11
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/photo-galle … rom-91101/
![https://cbsnewyork.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/114117530.jpg?w=640&h=0&crop=1]()
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
This was shot on Brooklyn Bridge on 9-11
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/photo-galle … rom-91101/
![https://cbsnewyork.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/114117530.jpg?w=640&h=0&crop=1]() QED!!!
I just checked online... there seems to have been all kinds of boats, not just coast guard that helped to evacuate lower Manhattan... I had no idea...
Fact is... the bridges were not closed, but you could go only one way, OUT of Manhattan... not in!
The reports state that Lower Manhattan were completely closed and nobody could leave the island, which we both know, as this is a bullshit explanation.
However, I stand by my assessment of that Arik story, being an ultra right wing propaganda piece.
I have a whole set of images, including when the towers collapsed and the aftermath of the days later and even the dust covered cars of victims with notes written into the dust in the adjacent parking lot at Greenwich Street, months later in November...
This photos is taken at about 3:30pm
![https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21463154_835678766599238_4564572679619343165_n.jpg?oh=ae397dc7dcbe75de14f9846ee5bfb7f1&oe=5A5B5A1D]()
Photographer
Brooklyn Bridge Images
Posts: 13200
Brooklyn, New York, US
I can believe some people were moved by boat
I cant believe 500,000 were moved and I didnt hear a peep about it
Does NY even have that many boats ?
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
I can believe some people were moved by boat
I cant believe 500,000 were moved and I didnt hear a peep about it
Does NY even have that many boats ? Yup, it's weird... and I also have to seriously question the number of half a Million...
But this is one of the articles:
https://news.usni.org/2014/07/23/coast- … er-dunkirk
Photographer
Eagle Rock Photographer
Posts: 1286
Los Angeles, California, US
I looked up the boatlift. Apparently the US Coast Guard is not good at publicizing its own heroics. The bridges were passable, but not accessible from south of the twin towers disaster. That's why a boat lift was organized to get the hundreds of thousands of people, Trapped south of the towers, out of Manhattan.At the time, the Coast Guard had a major base on Governors Island, very close to the tip of Manhattan evidently that base organize and directed the boatlift.
As to whether the hijackers were Muslims, it is a historical fact. And presumably, the young author, had not been told to sanitize his words for political correctness. It is also a fact that there were major celebrations in Muslim communities in the United States. Not just the well-known ones in Dearborn Michigan, but even in communities in and around New York City.
Artist/Painter
Hunter GWPB
Posts: 8192
King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, US
Sorry if you missed my reply, Not worth it. Wtf. $&(#)$* forums!
Artist/Painter
Hunter GWPB
Posts: 8192
King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, US
Sometime in October, I will be cooking apple sauce and apple butter. If you ever stay at my house, try my applesauce. You will want to take a jar home. I buy Cortland apples. Bushels of them. One by one, I stick them on a little machine designed in the 19th century which spins them around using a hand crank, while a blade skirts across the apple removing most of the skin. Sometimes the three prongs that holds the apple spins through the apple because the core is soft. I have to peel those with a knife. Many of the others will require a slight bit of skin to be removed with the knife, especially at the depressions on the top and bottom. I quarter the apples. Remove any core or seeds. Take off the rotten spots. I drop the slices of luscious whitish golden pome into a pot with nothing but water, and slowly simmer them down to a course textured and chunky delight. Sometimes over an open fire.
Not all the apples are perfect. It doesn't make them unusable. Occasionally, there will be one that is pretty messed up and it gets tossed. The old adage is true. I have been making apple sauce for decades. From experience, I know that one bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch. I will not dump a whole basket because of one.
Some people want to believe that groups of people are not like apples. They believe that the whole group can be judged by a tiny minority. An unrepresentative sample implicates the whole. How many genocides have been committed in this world because of such unreasonable judgements? Both sides condemn whole populations based on mythological hatred from events that may or may not have happened, centuries ago. Who is the worst? The person that hates the infidels? Or the person that hates the heathens? Neither side sees they are the same as the other.
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 65617
Danbury, Connecticut, US
udor wrote:
That story stinks of manipulation and was more likely than not written by an adult and that "kid" named Arik doesn't exist! Here's the smoking gun in my book.
Arik wrote:
Just after dawn on 9/11 we were in the South Tower of the World Trade Center’s twin towers, the world’s 2nd tallest building at that time. It was a clear day and the view from the observation deck—1,362' high—was astonishing. The observation deck didn't open until 9:30. He simply couldn't have been there.
And that's ignoring the toxic male fantasy of crushing the testicles of the security guard blocking people from using the stairs.
I don't believe a word of this.
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 65617
Danbury, Connecticut, US
Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
I can believe some people were moved by boat
I cant believe 500,000 were moved and I didnt hear a peep about it
Does NY even have that many boats ? On an average day, the Staten Island Ferry alone takes 66,000 passengers. NY Waterway ferries take 30,000 per day.
This short documentary also exaggerates the bridges being closed (they were closed to non-emergency vehicles, not pedestrians) but it does have some enlightening interviews with Coast Guard, boat captains, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18lsxFcDrjo
Photographer
Eagle Rock Photographer
Posts: 1286
Los Angeles, California, US
Brian Diaz wrote:
...
Here's the smoking gun in my book...
...the fact that the observation deck was on Tower 1, the North Tower...... ONLY the South Tower had an observation deck. See the following and other sources. [emphasis added]:
Which World Trade Center tower had the observation deck?
When completed in 1973, the South Tower, Two World Trade Center (the South Tower) became the second tallest building in the world at 1,362 feet (415 m); the South Tower's rooftop observation deck was 1,362 ft (415 m) high and its indoor observation deck was 1,310 ft (400 m) high.
World Trade Center (1973–2001) - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_(1973–2001)
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 65617
Danbury, Connecticut, US
My mistake. I was thinking of Windows on the World, the restaurant at the top of Tower 1.
Regardless, that "kid" couldn't have been there before the planes hit.
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Brian Diaz wrote:
...
Here's the smoking gun in my book...
...the fact that the observation deck was on Tower 1, the North Tower...... Eagle Rock Photographer wrote:
ONLY the South Tower had an observation deck. See the following and other sources. [emphasis added]:
Which World Trade Center tower had the observation deck?
When completed in 1973, the South Tower, Two World Trade Center (the South Tower) became the second tallest building in the world at 1,362 feet (415 m); the South Tower's rooftop observation deck was 1,362 ft (415 m) high and its indoor observation deck was 1,310 ft (400 m) high.
World Trade Center (1973–2001) - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_(1973–2001) Brian must have thought about an OPEN/ROOFTOP observation deck, not the enclosed one.
However, he is correct on every other point, as both observation decks opened at 9:30am and as the first plane hit at 8:46am and the 2nd at 9:02am... and there is no way that our fictitious hero, Arik could have been on EITHER observation deck!
It is a bullshit story... also... I just read a little bit more of that Arik fiction... seriously... read it and consider the details... it doesn't sound like a 16 years old's essay... I have read amazing essays of 16 years olds... one of my model friends (now in her early 30's, has her essay on permanent display at the Brooklyn Museum of Art (she studied journalism/photojournalism at NYU and interned with Annie Leibovitz)... and it's written differently.
Anyway... the part where that "Arik" is describing his "uncle", it's almost like homo-erotic fiction (I think), where he in details describes his uncle's shapely body and rippling muscles... he celebrates his uncle's body... all it's missing is how his uncle's muscles and veiny arms are reflecting sunlight on the droplets when he takes a shower... it's almost a "chapter" where he describes his uncle and his prowess... really weird.
Anyway... it's a bullshit story, with many holes, inconsistencies, etc.
Also, the title and description didn't say "terrorists" or "fundamental Islamic terrorists", it states "devout Moslems flew hijacked jetliners"... yes, those were fanatical Muslims, but he describes it as if those were just the standard, devout Muslims, not the exception and that's what makes it inflammatory and I believe on purpose.
Consider this: Not all Sushi is Sashimi... but all Sashimi is Sushi! The importance is distinction and qualifiers.
Another Islamophobic part is: "Of course, Moslems, who else? Which tower? Which side?"
Just consider, all what the world knew was that planes hit the towers... but that "uncle" already got confirmation that it were Muslims that flew the planes into the towers...
Anyway... I had enough of this discussion... it's a bullshit, Islamophobic fictional story that is geared towards an extreme right-wing faction of the states and I have wasted enough time on this.
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
I was on the South Tower's rooftop observation deck years ago. The view was fantastic!
Photographer
kickfight
Posts: 35054
Portland, Oregon, US
Well, it's definitely appropriate that it's been listed as "Short Story/ Romance". Otherwise, the only charitable thing I can say about this goofy fantasy is that at least it doesn't claim that 9/11 was an inside job.  Arik wrote:
Most boys hate to write. I like to write. And I'm good at it. Oh, "Arik", honey... no. Just no. 
Photographer
Eagle Rock Photographer
Posts: 1286
Los Angeles, California, US
kickfight wrote:
...
Oh, "Arik", honey... no. Just no. I gather From your photos and profile, you are a martial arts expert. I'm curious whether the account of the fight In the story, is realistic. I was curious enough to ask a martial arts expert myself, and he had interesting comments including a comment on what was referred to as "nerve shatter" technique. So I'm curious if you think the fight, as recounted, rings true.
Photographer
kickfight
Posts: 35054
Portland, Oregon, US
Eagle Rock Photographer wrote:
I gather From your photos and profile, you are a martial arts expert. I'm curious whether the account of the fight In the story, is realistic. I was curious enough to ask a martial arts expert myself, and he had interesting comments including a comment on what was referred to as "nerve shatter" technique. So I'm curious if you think the fight, as recounted, rings true. "Expert"? No, not by any means. But I do have a decent amount of MA training, and my wife and I have trained others in self defense.
The fight scene seems sufficient to accomplish what it is meant to accomplish from a narrative standpoint. I get why the guy drops down to deliver the groin strike with his forearm (?)... so he can then pull the guard's legs out from under him, which means gravity acting on the guard's bulk does the rest of the work. The whole sequence appears to be designed to work towards that moment when the guard falls back, hits his head on the pipe, and is knocked out, so the protagonists can avail themselves of his gear.
Don't know what to think about that whole "wet, squishy crunch" bit. That's obviously someone thinking of those typical dorky action-movie sound effects.
I know about nerve strikes but am unfamiliar with a "nerve shatter" technique. I'm guessing that's just artistic license on the part of the author, 'cuz "shatter" sure sounds a lot more impressive.
Photographer
Eagle Rock Photographer
Posts: 1286
Los Angeles, California, US
kickfight wrote:
"Expert"? No, not by any means. But I do have a decent amount of MA training, and my wife and I have trained others in self defense.
The fight scene seems sufficient to accomplish what it is meant to accomplish from a narrative standpoint. I get why the guy drops down to deliver the groin strike with his forearm (?)... so he can then pull the guard's legs out from under him, which means gravity acting on the guard's bulk does the rest of the work. The whole sequence appears to be designed to work towards that moment when the guard falls back, hits his head on the pipe, and is knocked out, so the protagonists can avail themselves of his gear.
Don't know what to think about that whole "wet, squishy crunch" bit. That's obviously someone thinking of those typical dorky action-movie sound effects.
I know about nerve strikes but am unfamiliar with a "nerve shatter" technique. I'm guessing that's just artistic license on the part of the author, 'cuz "shatter" sure sounds a lot more impressive. Thank you. I talk to an expert friend of mine. He said the techniques used sound reasonable for an expert in jujitsu. He said they would be far-fetched for non-expert.
As to "nerve shatter" apparently that is a fancy term for techniques which stunned or disconcert rather than cause damage. Soo the slaps to the face and the unspecified technique that followed could be called "nerve shatter" which opened up the guard to the powerful and perhaps lethal attack which followed.
Photographer
kickfight
Posts: 35054
Portland, Oregon, US
Eagle Rock Photographer wrote:
Thank you. I talk to an expert friend of mine. He said the techniques used sound reasonable for an expert in jujitsu. He said they would be far-fetched for non-expert. Understood. I guess a lot of the credibility of that scene (as with the vast majority of the story) is depleted by the fact that, due to the writing, this doesn't sound at all like someone recounting their own actual experience but more like someone describing an action movie that they saw. Maybe it's because the author was young (16)?
Eagle Rock Photographer wrote:
As to "nerve shatter" apparently that is a fancy term for techniques which stunned or disconcert rather than cause damage. Soo the slaps to the face and the unspecified technique that followed could be called "nerve shatter" which opened up the guard to the powerful and perhaps lethal attack which followed. Weird. Never heard of that term, but maybe it's just a jiu jitsu thing.
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